The universe?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by god-of-course, Sep 20, 2003.

  1. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    Originally posted by MacM
    LMFAO, you really are an idiot.


    From your link #1 at that:
    Lim x-->0+ y = ln x....
    So they say infinity cannot originate from a negative position.

    It should be obvious that they are talking about that specific equation. In fact:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    This picture shows it approaching negative infinity.

    In the link they also said it is a concept where x approaches infinity but never reaces it. So your line is not infinite.

    You also don't understand the difference between infinity and an infinit line? Infinity is as I defined earlier. An infinite line is a line where at least 1 end is unattainable. X=1 is an infinite line, but it also never reaches infinity. NO line ever reaches infinity.

    ANS: You should try reading, better yet understanding, your own references. "Forever" is not a term applicable to infinity.

    LMAO. The quote you pulled was talking about real numbers, not infinity.
     
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  3. leeaus Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    265
    Hello 1100f
    Length containing all length. Not containing a length. It’s a parameter or defining criteria of infinite distance. The only example of length encompassing all length can be infinite length.
    Then when you understand that any length is intersected by a length at right angles to its self, you can begin to clearly see that there is no such thing as infinite length. The fact that length exists in finite sections has been covered already in this thread. You still seem to be mistakenly angling at infinite length having an origin or starting point. That P and P' stuff was quite errant.

    (With respect of the infinity + 1 stuff, if a number is added to a number, neither number was or could be infinity. Infinity does not exist as an integer. It is becoming common in this thread to allow infinity the characteristic of a number that exists. In mathematics infinity specifies no end number, not the end number.)

    Regards

    Leeaus
     
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  5. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Persol,


    ANS: And you should start to abide by your own references. "Forever" is not an aplicable term to be used for infinity.


    ANS:Who the hell knows since you keep spouting "Forever". According to your link the line may "Approach" infinity but can not be infinite.



    ANS: Suit yourself but you are not following your own references here.



    ANS: Who mentioned ether? My prediction was that the same energy flowing into the universe(from nothing - the vacuum) caused gravity aslo would cause an accelerating expansion of the universe. Maybe I should apologize for not having learned calculus so that I could be more specific as to how it could all be. But I don't think so. I think I did pretty damn good to have the vision of energy flowing in and causes both affects. Especially since it was 45 years before anyone else even discussed an accelerating expansion of the universe.

    You'll have to do better than talk down your nose at me or UniKEF and claim my ignorance on any subject to override the truth of its predictions. Maybe, I'll play lotto this weekend, if I am this lucky, who knows.


    ANS: I don't see where you redicted anything decades in advance.


    ANS: And you still don't get it, that making predictions based on mathematics alone leads you down false paths. A big waste of time. Infinity is a perfect example. Here you are argueing over it as though it has any real value other than in limits in calculus. It merely results in very close approximations not absolute answers and to take infinity out of the mathematical limits classification and to argue about infinite lines, infinit mass, etc., is shear stupidity as a function of your poor vision.


    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
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  7. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    leeaus,

    I know you and I don't see eye to eye, not even a little more than likely but we are in agreement here:



    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
  8. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    I wasn't trying to take it out of mathematical limits. By definition it limits itself. As I have said before nothing actually 'reaches' infinity. At the same time, a line is inifinite because it has no end. You will note that I was trying to explain to you what infinity means mathmatically. It is of use, because almsot every branch of science uses it. If you don't care what it actually is, then stop pretending like you know and shut up. At the very least you could stop misquoting articles, taking things out of context, and actually read for a change.
     
  9. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Persol,

    .


    ANS: I do believe that is what I just said above. Thank you for finally admitting that your infinite line is not really infinite.


    ANS: Have you forgotten already that the entire link was discussing falacies about the concept of infinity and that "Forever" will never reach infinity but only make you tired? I did notice you stopped using "Forever" maybe you are learning something.

    Get this straight once and for all. I don't have a problem with a graph having a starting point because it never reaches infinity.

    Just as your line starting at your feet and going "Forever" never reaches infinity because as I have said noting with an end point can ever be claimed to be infinite and nothing in physical reality can be infinite.


    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2003
  10. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    Originally posted by MacM
    ANS: Have you forgotten already that the entire link was discussing falacies about the concept of infinity and that "Forever" will never reach infinity but only make you tired?
    You completely miss the point. You will never 'reach' it because by definition infinity is beyond reach/count.... just as 'forever' is.

    nothing in physical reality can be infinite.

    I'd rather say that we can not observe infinity. But this has nothing to do with the start position problem.

    Get this straight once and for all. I don't have a problem with a graph having a starting point because it never reaches infininity, just as you line starting at your feet and going "Forver" never reaches infinity because as I have said noting with an end point can ever be claimed to be infinite and nothing in physical reality anc be infinite

    No, a line never reaches infinity. The fact that it just keeps on going and going (it has no end) makes it infinite. It is an infinite line. It matters not if a start point exists. Your original statement was:which stills demonstrates this lack of knowledge.

    In summary:
    1) An infinite line is a line when an end does not exist.
    2) Regardless of the start position, the line is still infinite if the end does not exist.
    3) An infinite line does not 'reach' infinity.
     
  11. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Persol,


    ANS: You would like that. Then you could continue to hoodwink other readers into your circle jerk definitions. First you argue your line is actually infinite and demanded I prove otherwise. I just did and you now admit your line (and indeed no line) is ever infinite.

    Keep your posts honest and I'll leave you alone but spout off this contorted BS and I'll nail you every time. You are after all challenging me the Crackpot that doesn't understand anything.




    ANS: Nothing is out of context except your proposal that a line with a starting point or an ending point is infinite. I seemed to have read enough to clear up your claim that your line is infinite.


    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
  12. 1100f Banned Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    807
    If I take a finite space consisting of the segment [0,1], its lenght will contain all the length of the segment, according to your definition it will be of infinite length.

    In fact any space will contain itself so any space will be infinite.
     
  13. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    Originally posted by MacM
    First you argue your line is actually infinite and demanded I prove otherwise. I just did and you now admit your line (and indeed no line) is ever infinite.
    No you idiot. I said 'no line ever reaches infinity'. That doesn't stop it from being an infinite line.

    Nothing is out of context except your proposal that a line with a starting point or an ending point is infinite. I seemed to have read enough to clear up your claim that your line is infinite.

    Grrr... the LINE is infinite. That doesn't mean it reaches infinity.

    Once again, in summary:
    1) An infinite line is a line when an end does not exist.
    2) Regardless of the start position, the line is still infinite if the end does not exist.
    3) An infinite line does not 'reach' infinity.
     
  14. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Persol,

    ANS: No it is you that miss the point. Your claim of producing an infinite line which had a starting point is what has been and is wrong here.


    ANS:I'm sure you would rather not admit that nothing in reality can be infinit but that doesn't alter the facts of the case. Further this issue has everything to do with your line having a starting point. that is what violates the claim of infinity (Which you yourself now admit) which is never achieved.

    ANS: And this statement sows you refuse to acknowledge your own statements, now claiming it is infinite and yet (correctly) state that no line is actually infinite. The issue DOES become a simple matter of the line having a starting point. You could claim a line with NO END POINTS is infinite. But that is it the rest is BS, double talk in an effort to confuse the issue and make others think you have superiority knowledge, which now is becoming very questionable.

    ANS: Thank you for accepting my definition over your original claims. As it reads the line has no starting or ending point since it doesn't have "an" end.

    ANS: No it doesn't. Read your own references. It may approach infinity but nevers becomes infinite. You can't have it both ways and this statement is inconsistant with #1 and the truth.


    ANS: More double talk trying to wiggle out of a fu_kup.
    Unfortunately others also know how to read and no amount of squirming will unravel your mis-statements.


    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2003
  15. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    You really are dumb. Saying that a line is infinite only means that one of the ends doesn't exist. It says nothing about reaching infinity.

    If you have an alternate view of what an infinite line is, then give it. Otherwise stop misrepresenting my statements. It is also interesting how you continue to avoid the question fo what the length of said one ended line would be.
     
  16. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Persol,


    ANS: Your statement is what is dumb. You can't have an infinite line that does not reach infinity. Period. And frankly I don't care if Old Al said so. He would be wrong.

    ANS: None of your statements have been mis-respresented. They have been shown to be double talk under the guise of superior knowledge. It just didn't work. I notice that you haven't addressed others that seem to disagree with your description of an infinite line. If you think I am an easy target you are mistaken. Again.

    ANS: It is also interesting how you think you can ignore my posts and claim I have not answered.

    As you correctly stated infinity is not a number, it is a concept and cannot be used to measure the length of a line, so stop trying to do so.

    A line with only one end may approach infinity but is not infinite in length. Period. End of arguement. Only a line with no end points can be claimed to be infinite and that doesn't exist in reality.

    Is that clear enough or should I draw one for you.
    :bugeye:


    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
  17. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    Originally posted by MacM
    You can't have an infinite line that does not reach infinity. Period. And frankly I don't care if Old Al said so. He would be wrong.
    So now not only are you more intelligent then physicists, but mathmaticians? If you don't feel like using mathmatical terminology, and want to define it otherwise... then fine. You don't use math anyhow.

    You've made it onto my ignore list. Be proud of yourself.
     
  18. AndersHermansson Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    334
    If you'd like to redefine infinite that may be so. Only not if you stick to a definition where an infinite line is longer than any finite one.


    Something approaching infinity is infinite, there is not a number large enough to describe the length of a line approaching infinity, so it must be infinite.

    As persol pointed out earlier. Infinity and infinite are two different things altogether.
     
  19. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    Persol,


    ANS: Fantastic. Now maybe there can be some honest discussions of issues.

    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
  20. ProCop Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    re AndersHermansson

    A Line La which stared at a point A and approaches infinity is different long from a Line Lx which started at no point. If you reverse the process of approaching the infinity of both lines La will come back to a point A and La will be eliminated. Only the Lx is truely infinite - (it has no end and cannot be eliminated).
     
  21. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    Lx can also be eliminated however, using another Lx. But infinity - infinite does not equal 0.
     
  22. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    AndersHermansson,


    ANS: Help me out here with a few more words. You lose me. Thanks.



    ANS: Lets not use your definition nor mine then lets use :"Websters":

    Infinite:

    "1 - ............without beginning or end."

    Infinity:

    "1 - The quality of being infinite."

    I do think that ends this issue.


    Knowing to believe only half of
    what you hear is a sign of
    intelligence. Knowing which
    half to believe will make you a
    genius.
     
  23. ProCop Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Re Persol


    Lx-La=0?
     

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