the universe is a sphear

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. jack54 Registered Senior Member

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    Here's something I've always been a bit shady about in my understanding of General Relativity:

    (emphasis added by me)
    http://www.brown.edu/Administration/George_Street_Journal/vol26/26GSJ10a.html

    Because of time dilation, from the perspective of someone outside the black hole, you would never pass the event horizon, right? So when they say this, then mean from your perspective (you being the person who jumped into the black hole... for whatever reason), whereas to everyone else it would be an infinite amount of time?
     
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  3. jack54 Registered Senior Member

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    Another question: what do physicists mean by how tightly dimensions are 'folded up'?
     
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  5. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I think it will take us some 1000 years to prove or disprove the existance of multiverse,
    like it was with 2500 years and the atomic theory put forward by the ancient Greeks.

    I see no reasons why it couldn't exist, the cosmologic constant invites us to the possibility that it indeed very well could, i.e., it's too precise to be just chance, but it could be if there was more than one universe - favourably an infinite number of them in the multiverse space.

    At our present knowledge and technological development no camp can claim to know the objective truth in this, so no need to attack each other

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    Let's better work together at finding it out for sure, just like with the atom.
     
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  7. jack54 Registered Senior Member

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    Well, if the cosmological constants were any different, we wouldn't be around analysing them would we? Hm... I can't really express what I'm trying to say here... We are only here because they are what they are, so to exclaim at the chance of that is meaningless, because we have no idea what didn't exist because they were different.

    Nope, that's still pretty crappy! Anyone catch my drift?
     
  8. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    That's not reasonable to assume that it's just our luck to have such a universe, because it's (the cosmological constant) precise and "tuned" to 120 decimal places. That's one in trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion, or the universe would be so different that we wouldn't exist. I think it's too much to give for just luck.
    But if there are many universes and each can have different values for the laws of physics then we're out of the dead end.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2005
  9. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Obviously this universe is perfect for us because we are a product of this universe. There is no luck involved.
     
  10. jack54 Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry, my explanation was inadequate. I'm not putting it down to luck.
     
  11. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I get your point and have been thinking about the same thing in the past too. Still am.

    But the precision of the constant is quite intriguing, i.e., why is it such and not different, why does it have to be so finely "tuned".
    Yes, we are that we are because the universe is like it is, but it doesn't answer the question - why does it exist, and why it is such and no different.
     
  12. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    From what i have gleaned of your worldview, i reckon your struggle with this is due to you not having insight matter/energy/Nature/Universe is sentient/intelligent
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Who said that I struggle? There simply are questions that need to be answered through using the scientific method in order to get the most objective answers. Just like any other question about nature out there.
    And I have no problems if the questions remain unanswered, love mysteries.

    But I refuse to try to answer scientific questions with subjective visions, "divinie" insights through intoxication, religious dogma or any other means that invent the supposed reality.
    There is no reason for the universe to be intelligent, even if you imagine there is.
     
  14. jack54 Registered Senior Member

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    I don't quite get it. Are you saying that all matter is sentient? Like, a rock - a plain old rock sitting on the ground somewhere - can think?
     
  15. devils_reject Registered Senior Member

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    Not quite, but all matter including conciousness is made of energy. Newtonian physics viewed the universe as mechanics and logic, but modern physics postulates its made of energy and its dimensions. And at a certain energy level and dimension you arrive at conciousness.
     
  16. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Don't mind him (duendy), you'd be better off discussing this at the religion section of this forum, he has no objective proof.
    Or you can read the thread about Consciousness in the Philosophy section of this forum to see what he thinks.
     
  17. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    devils_reject, that is so and I strongly agree - we are a part of this universe, we are this universe, therefore it is conscious, we are the eyes and the ears of the universe. Same goes for all life.

    But(!) it was not conscious during the big bang when supposedly the values for the laws of physics came into being, i.e., life has had no contribution in it, because there was no life in the begining, just hydrogen and helium in a gas state.
     
  18. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Consciousness is not made of matter, it's the manifestation of the interaction of the matter and energy - biochemical and electrical processes.
    Consciousness is a process where new information is evalued against data already stored.
    Our consciousness is not a physical part of this universe.
    What we are is this universe, and we are the matter and energy. Our ego and personality in a physical sense doesn't even exist, it's a process.
    We are the eyes of this universe, because our eyes are a part of this universe,
    but our consciousness is not even if it is a consciousness of the universe if looking at it from the universal energy point of view.
     
  19. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    so explain then why it s, and how comews you seem to know so much about stuf you dont knowabout???
     
  20. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    But I know about it. Objective proof, science, a little me standing on the shoulders of giants, etc.

    And I laugh at your disbelief at me stating my subjective stance about what I love and what I don't, as if it mattered!!

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    Or maybe you think you have analysed my psyche more than I have mine?
     
  21. duendy Registered Senior Member

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    me))))no. YUR the clever dik who thinks yu know MINE. upstart
     
  22. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, and nobody on this planet does, or at least - nobody has scientifically proved that he or she does.
    We don't even fully know what the universe is like, so much more for "why", although in the last two decades tremendous progress has been made.
    The hunt for the unifying theory in physics... dream of many scientists.
    And the journey is at its' beginning rather than end.

    Or maybe you claim to know why there is gravity?
    Or maybe you know what is beyond the event horizon of a black hole?
    Ever seen a singularity? Does it even exist? How did proto-life first appear?
    Is our universe a simulation in a computer? Is there more than one universe?
    You know this all and much more? You have proof?
     
  23. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    For all my intents and purposes in this forum I'd say that I know enough. You have quite amusing thinking process / patterns, although nothing very unique or unmet.
     

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