The universe has always existed. 'proposal thread'

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Nov 23, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,848
    the basic grounds for this debate will be directly dealing with the nature of existence in terms of time and creation, or non creation. it basicaly breaks down into 2 standpoints, on one side something comes from nothing where the birth of existence comes into action, on the other an eternal universe that has always existed in the same form or constantly changed in cycles of birth and death but is still eternal in cyclic form.


    i take the stance of an eternal universe and existence which was never created from nothingness, how will the rules of this debate be layed out?, and who will participate?.


    peace.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,848
    this sub forum is crap by the way i just felt pitty for its useless existence, nobody was posting in it.


    peace.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Edicius Registered Member

    Messages:
    5
    I propose a counter-debate: should one care how things came into existence?

    You must realize that if you discover that answer, to the creation of everything, your boredom will be piqued and you will have to kill yourself. I suggest you find something more plausible to waste your time with. 'tis simply not animalistic to think such things.

    screw, eat, kill; those are your duties
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. superluminal . Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,717
    I don't see a debate of this subject going anywhere. We have no experience whatsoever of something coming from "nothing". There is no evidence one could present that the universe "came from nothing", or what it "came from". Cosmologists are only now beginning to speculate on whether they could find evidence of what preceeded T = 0. Like, is the universe the result of brane interactions?

    But claiming the universe "came from nothing" is just as indefensible as saying it came from brane collisions or vacuum fluctuations or whatever.
     
  8. Non-Logical-Idea-Guy Fat people can't smile. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,002
    before the universe there was no such thing as time so therefore the universe was the beginning of time.
     
  9. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    Should you care about anything? About art, music, starving childeren in another part of the world?

    I think you are not taking this seriously.
     
  10. MacM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,104
    For what it is worth should Admin chose to set this up as a debate "You are on".

    I don't care for the (4) post restriction but until it is changed I'll deal with it.
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,374
    It's not up to "Admin" to set it up. How it works is clearly explained in the sticky threads in this forum.

    Once you agree who the debaters will be, and what the rules will be, and who will go first, the first debater can simply start a "Debate" thread.

    The rules are not set by God. You can mutually agree to any rules you like, provided the debate remains a formal debate.
     
  12. maxg Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    710
    Wouldn't the proper counter argument be "the universe has never existed?"
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,374
    EFC:

    Are you still interested in debating this topic?
     
  14. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,372
    Yes, I believe the Universe has always existed, since energy can not be created or destroyed, and since atomic matter is electrons protons and neutrons properly arranged...

    I'll even take it a step further, since our Universe IS so large and VERY VERY VERY OLD, there must have always been a place for intelligent life somewhere, always existing.

    AND since the electromagnetic force is so much stronger than the force of gravity, I believe that atomic matter can only be compacted so much since the force governing the protons electrons neutrons distances is the strongest force in the universe, and thus, the big bang is a big farce, since the power of the resistance between the individual atoms and molecules is so much stronger than gravity. ( it is 10 38th power times stronger than gravity ) Hence, the universe has always existed and has always had intelligent life forms since it could indeed, have absolutely no beginning and no end. In that case, life forms are a condition of matter which is integral to the universe, and thus "we" are the universe being aware of itself! My God!

    Perhaps this "section" of the universe came from a super large super nova, but just because our telescopes can't see the whole universe, doesn't mean we can assume that ALL of it, what we can see and what we CAN'T came from a mysterious explosion...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  15. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    Universe is cyclical, the future created the beginning...the Big Bang goes and it expands, and than a force is born that drags matter back to each other and universe collapses like a black hole into itself, the second it collapses everything into itself it oncemore expands in a Big Bang

    furthermore...these so called oscillations of expansion and contraction of universe give rise to another universe in a bubble and allow it to start this cycle...
     
  16. Enmos Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    I agree the universe has always existed in one form or another.
     
  17. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    51,740
    Something does come from nothing. Nothing is unstable. The universe is made of roughly equal amounts of positive and negative energy, so no energy was required to create it. Cause and effect only apply on the macro scale.
     
  18. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,372
    Yes exactly, our universe is a massive free energy machine of cosmic proportions
     
  19. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    right so if we all know this...why are we even debating?
     
  20. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,372
    Indeed... if only we could harness this free energy and let go of oil forever....
     
  21. Enmos Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Zero point energy ?
     
  22. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    yo UTAH...what energy? we are talking about universe and not energy. And if we are this so called energy which is the universe than we would be harnessing ourselves for our own energy needs.
     
  23. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    I say lets capture all the neutrinos and use their energy

    or have like sacrificial rituals, were a human will spontaneously combast and turn to plasma ball and the energy will be used to generate food...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page