The universal cycloid motion through time.

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Jan 14, 2022.

  1. river

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    Only in mathematics does time become The dimension . In the physical Universe time is irrelevant . Time can eliminated and still movement of physical things continue .
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, the universe does not take note of duration.
     
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  5. river

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    Exactly .

    Thankyou , after all this discussions we have had , you understand .
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I never did not understand. Perhaps we were not communicating on the same wavelength.
     
  8. river

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    We weren't on the same pdg. You are mathematical , I'm physical . And the mathematical exists because of the physical . Tell me I'm wrong .
     
  9. river

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    You haven't told me I'm wrong in my post#45 , Write4U .
     
  10. nebel

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    have you 2 visited the sequoias in California, yews in Wales,? these trees counted the years, and you can count the years, touch a point in a piece of wood that was grown, deposited in a yearly ring during "Moses" time. The universe is counting on time to be there when it needed it. always.

    to use the cycloid/wheel metaphor of this thread's theme: Time is as relevant to the universe as the roads to our vehicles / wheels. without
    the cycloid motion touching, gripping the road/ time firmly at zero velocity contact, there would not be meaningful existence as we know it.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You are anthropomorphizing. The universe does not think about anything
    Rain doesn't "know" when it is wet or when it is ice.
    A better metaphor is when man built the transcontinental railroad, laying down the rails for the locomotive to move forward 40 ft at a time.

    The universe only needs "mathematical permission" to unfold by a quantum chronology.

    You need to forget about what it all means to humans. The universe doesn't care about anything. It has no sentience. Humans have absolutely no impact on universal dynamics. We are a glitch in the vastness of spacetime.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  12. nebel

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    that is brilliant, the power of analogies when thought through.

    a) the locomotive, the cycloid motion of their wheels, illustrating the zero duration contact on the rails. as the here proposed movement through time.
    b) The rails represent the spacetime we live in that has been laid down since the BB, existing in conjunction with the base, timespace, without beginning or end.
    c) the pristine terrain, water to be bridged, picturing the ancien timespace, energytime, the first rough dimension containing only energy, that existed before we arrived. nearly eternally.
     
  13. nebel

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    I tried to use examples of highly time/ timing dependant processes often repetitive that were critical for the universes, perhaps life's existence, that preceded, were unaffected by our presence.
    with out time, or the ability to exist in time , to have duration, nothing would exist, even the primordial energy, that is no thing, but has to have time to exist in. To exist, you do not even need to move through time.
     
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    time is a relativistic human observational principal of measurement via spacial orientation
    it is a physical concept of measurement of human design

    how many million years have humans been around ?
    did time exist for humans before humans existed ?(no)

    so you cant pull time away from human perception because time is an aspect of perceptional measure.

    we are "in time" but not "of time"
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,718
    Right, we only move through space. The length of duration (time) of this movement depends on several variables.
    I agree.
    Even then I would put it as; "We are in space at a relative time"
    I see time as a variable emergent quantity of duration. It is an "operational definition"

    Operational definition
    Science[edit]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_definition#Science

    Relativity of simultaneity

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity

    Clearly this shows that time is a variable quantity and is only observable as an emergent property of "state of being".
    Without space there can be no time. And the time of "now" depends on where you are in space.
     
  16. nebel

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    if you are at the right place, in a balanced center of gravitational fields, you can be "stationary" in space too. not moving through time might involve the unpleasantness of being in the singularity of a black hole. hole and not know it.
    preferable to be in a rotating system, with the cusp of the cycloid always at zero velocity touching the time dimension.
     
  17. nebel

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    It is not time that is the variable quantity but the object's and the observer's movement through time.
     
  18. nebel

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    Yes, time existed, always did, as a kind of Urtime, not Uhr time ( time measured by a Clock of sorts) Uhrzeit.
    How do you suppose uncreated energy existed, the universe existed without having had the time to exist in ?
    the fact that we have been measuring time for a few thousand years did not open the possibilities for the universe to exist. retroactively, --
    --the presence of energy contained in time did.
    we humans have the unique experience to sense the momentarily zero length moment, and the lingering time delay in our nerves, similar to the movement of a wheel near the cusp, contact of its cycloid motion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2022
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I am not sure about that.

    If time does not exist apart from an object's or observer's movement through space, then any time that emerges from that movement or observation is variable along with the variability of the movement. Time is not a fixed dimension, because spatial dimensions are not fixed. The entire universe is in constant and variable flux.
    Hence the emergent times of duration are in constant and variable flux, no?
     
  20. nebel

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    as pointed out, time exists whether an object is moving through space or not. Time existed before even our 3D space existed, because time harboured uncreated energy ' always

    of course, the movement of the cycloid over/ lin the fixed time dimension is variable. Photons do not age at all, deep gravity wells get you stuck in time too.


    .
     
  21. nebel

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    In the discussion of that, the phenomenal photon came up. It is a rotating wave, it does not age , seem to be in perpetual zero contact with the time dimension, yet travels forward through space at a certain rate, taking duration to get from a to b. very similar to the cycloid of a wheel, zero length, duration when in contact with the road surface (time), but advancing in other aspects.
    photon the perfect cycloid.
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,718
    So, you believe in irreducible complexity?
     
  23. nebel

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    does that have relevance to the proposal at hand, that there is on some simple level a similarity to the movement through time and the zero contact of a rotating system with the medium it travels in/over?
     

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