The truth about truth.

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by sigurdV, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. impaJah Registered Senior Member

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    No I was saying that common sense sounds like "a truth that is instantly understood"

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  3. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    It's also "common sense" that most people are morons... Doesn't make their cents worth a dime.
     
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  5. sigurdV Registered Senior Member

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    352
    Hi guys! So you are interested in the truth about truth? Let me check... We begin with the Law of Identity:

    1 x = x (true)

    "x" can of course stand for anything but let us restrict x to statements, then sentence 1 is indeed true...Right?

    Now let us deny the "x" on the right side of the identity:

    2 x = "x is not true" (false)

    Look at sentence 2 closely... do you recognize it? No!?
    It is what I defined as a Liar Identity! and it is false!

    So lets deny it so we end up with the truth:

    3 it is not the case that x = "x is not true" (true)

    This truth in itself is almost trivial...
    If it were not for its consequences I wouldnt bother mentioning it.
    Must I point them consequences out or...?
     
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  7. river

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    17,307
    does it really take some symbolic logic to show the truth about truth ?

    the truth about truth should be started with the elements , this is where truth starts
     
  8. sigurdV Registered Senior Member

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    352
    Elements!? Are we talking about Earth Water Air and Fire?
    Could you perhaps explain what you mean?
     
  9. river

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    17,307


    chemical elements , as in the periodic table
     
  10. sigurdV Registered Senior Member

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    352
    First time Ive heard of that idea, how do you define truth using atoms?
     
  11. NietzscheHimself Banned Banned

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    867
    Let's begin with statistics and numbers for these elements shall we?

    "Sun/
    Element % of total atoms % of total mass
    Hydrogen 91.2 71.0
    Helium 8.7 27.1
    Oxygen 0.078 0.97
    Carbon 0.043 0.40
    Nitrogen 0.0088 0.096
    Silicon 0.0045 0.099
    Magnesium 0.0038 0.076
    Neon 0.0035 0.058
    Iron 0.030 0.014
    Sulfur 0.015. 0.040

    Earth

    Earth's solid mass is about 32% iron, 30% oxygen, 15% silicon, 14% magnesium, 3% sulfur, 2% nickel, 1.5% calcium, and 1.4% aluminum. Much of the iron and nickel are in the planetary core, which is 89% iron and 6% nickel. The atmosphere consists of 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen, with traces of other gases including carbon dioxide (0.3%).

    You...

    By mass, human cells consist of 65–90% water (H2O). Oxygen therefore contributes a majority of a human body's mass. Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of the six elements oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.

    About 0.85% is composed of only five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All are necessary to life. The remaining elements are trace elements, of which more than a dozen are thought to be necessary for life, or play an active role in health (e.g., fluorine, which hardens dental enamel but seems to have no other function).

    Note that not all elements which are found in the human body in trace quantities play a role in life. Some of these elements are thought to be simple bystander contaminants without function (examples: caesium, titanium), while many others are thought to be active toxins, depending on amount (cadmium, mercury, radioactives). The possible utility and toxicity of a few elements at levels normally found in the body (aluminum) is debated. Trace amounts of cadmium and lead have had functions suggested, but are almost certainly toxic in amounts normally found in the body. There is evidence that one element normally thought a toxin (arsenic) is essential in ultratrace quantities, even in mammals. Some elements that are clearly used in lower organisms and plants (arsenic, silicon, boron, nickel, vanadium) are probably needed by mammals also, but in far smaller doses. Two halogens used abundantly by lower organisms (fluorine and bromine) are presently known to be used by mammals only opportunistically. However, a general rule is that elements found in active biochemical use in lower organisms are often eventually found to be used in some way by higher organisms.[citation needed]

    HideElemental composition

    Main article: Dietary mineral
    The average 70*kg adult human body contains approximately 6.7 x 1027atoms and is "composed of" 60 chemical elements. In this sense, "composed of" means that a trace of the element has been identified in the body. However, at the finest resolution, most objects on Earth (including the human body) contain measureable contaminating amounts of all of the 88 chemical elements which are detectable in nearly any soil on Earth. The number of elements thought to play an active positive role in life and augmentation of health in humans and other mammals, is about 24 or 25.[1]

    The relative amounts of each element vary by individual. The numbers in the table are averages of different numbers reported by different references.

    The human body is ~70% water, and water is ~11% hydrogen by mass but ~67% hydrogen by atomic percent.

    Atomic number Element Percent of Mass[2][3][4][5] Mass (kg)[6] Atomic percent Positive health role in mammals[7] Group
    8 Oxygen 65 43 24 Yes (water, electron acceptor) /No (Reactive Oxygen Species) 16
    6 Carbon 18 16 12 Yes (organic compounds are hydrocarbon derivatives) 14
    1 Hydrogen 10 7 63 Yes (e.g. water) 1
    7 Nitrogen 3 1.8 0.58 Yes (e.g. DNA and amino acids) 15
    20 Calcium 1.4 1.0 0.24 Yes (e.g. Calmodulin and Hydroxylapatite in bones) 2
    15 Phosphorus 1.1 0.78 0.14 Yes (e.g. DNA and phosphorylation) 15
    19 Potassium 0.25 0.14 0.033 Yes (e.g. Na+/K+-ATPase) 1
    16 Sulfur 0.25 0.14 0.038 Yes (e.g. Cysteine and Methionine) 16
    11 Sodium 0.15 0.10 0.037 Yes (e.g. Na+/K+-ATPase) 1
    17 Chlorine 0.15 0.095 0.024 Yes (e.g. Cl-transporting ATPase) 17
    12 Magnesium 0.05 0.019 0.0070 Yes (e.g. binding to ATP and other nucleotides) 2
    26 Iron* 0.006 0.0042 0.00067 Yes (e.g. Hemoglobin) 8
    9 Fluorine 0.0037 0.0026 0.0012 Yes/No (topically hardens teeth; toxic in higher amounts) 17
    30 Zinc 0.0032 0.0023 0.00031 Yes (e.g. Zinc finger proteins) 12
    14 Silicon 0.002 0.0010 0.0058 Yes (probable) 14
    37 Rubidium 0.00046 0.00068 0.000033 No (?) 1
    38 Strontium 0.00046 0.00032 0.000033 No (?) 2
    35 Bromine 0.00029 0.00026 0.000030 No (?) 17
    82 Lead 0.00017 0.00012 0.0000045 No (?) (toxic in higher amounts) 14
    29 Copper 0.0001 0.000072 0.0000104 Yes (e.g. copper proteins) 11
    13 Aluminium 0.000087 0.000060 0.000015 No(?) (toxic?) 13
    48 Cadmium 0.000072 0.000050 0.0000045 No(?) (toxic in higher amounts) 12
    58 Cerium 0.000057 0.000040 No
    56 Barium 0.000031 0.000022 0.0000012 No? (toxic) 2
    50 Tin 0.000024 0.000020 6.0e-7 No(?) 14
    53 Iodine 0.000016 0.000020 7.5e-7 Yes (e.g. thyroxine) 17
    22 Titanium 0.000013 0.000020 No 4
    5 Boron 0.000069 0.000018 0.0000030 Yes (probable) 13
    34 Selenium 0.000019 0.000015 4.5e-8 Yes/No (toxic in higher amounts) 16
    28 Nickel 0.000014 0.000015 0.0000015 Yes (e.g. urease) 10
    24 Chromium 0.0000024 0.000014 8.9e-8 Yes (not confirmed) 6
    25 Manganese 0.000017 0.000012 0.0000015 Yes (e.g. Mn-SOD) 7
    33 Arsenic 0.000026 0.000007 8.9e-8 Yes (not confirmed). Toxic in higher amounts 15
    3 Lithium 0.0000031 0.000007 0.0000015 Yes (not confirmed). Toxic in high amounts. Useful medically (mood stabilizer). 1
    80 Mercury 0.000019 0.000006 8.9e-8 No (toxic) 12
    55 Caesium 0.0000021 0.000006 1.0e-7 No 1
    42 Molybdenum 0.000013 0.000005 4.5e-8 Yes (e.g. the molybdenum oxotransferases Xanthine oxidase and Sulfite oxidase 6
    32 Germanium 0.000005 No (?) 14
    27 Cobalt 0.0000021 0.000003 3.0e-7 Yes (e.g. vitamin B12) 9
    51 Antimony 0.000011 0.000002 No (toxic) 15
    47 Silver 0.000001 0.000002 No (toxic) 11
    41 Niobium 0.00016 0.0000015 No 5
    40 Zirconium 0.0006 0.000001 3.0e-7 No 4
    57 Lanthanum 0.000137 8e-7 No
    52 Tellurium 0.000012 7e-7 No 16
    31 Gallium 7e-7 No 13
    39 Yttrium 6e-7 No 3
    83 Bismuth 5e-7 No 15
    81 Thallium 5e-7 No (toxic) 13
    49 Indium 4e-7 No 13
    79 Gold 0.000014 2e-7 3.0e-7 No 11
    21 Scandium 2e-7 No 3
    73 Tantalum 2e-7 No 5
    23 Vanadium 0.000026 1.1e-7 1.2e-8 Yes (not confirmed) 5
    90 Thorium 1e-7 No (toxic)
    92 Uranium 1.3e-7 1e-7 3.0e-9 No (toxic)
    62 Samarium 5.0e-8 No
    74 Tungsten 2.0e-8 No 6
    4 Beryllium 5e-9 3.6e-8 4.5e-8 No (toxic) 2
    88 Radium 1e-17 3e-14 1e-17% No (toxic) 2
    *Iron = ~3 g in men, ~2.3 g in women

    The elements needed for life are relatively common in the Earth's crust, and conversely most of the common elements are necessary for life. An exception is aluminium, which is the third most common element in the Earth's crust (after oxygen and silicon), but seems to serve no function in living cells. Rather, it is harmful in large amounts.[citation needed]Transferrins can bind aluminium.[8wiki"

    Yet... The Statistical combination we as living breathing conscious and technological individuals have the ability to make for ourselves to attempt to duplicate the specific combination inherent of the universe...

    100/118= 0.84% of each element with their mass increasing by about two units for every sequential added element. Totaling to about 16,412 amu to create the smallest experiment to study what the universe could look like statistically.

    We have to start combining the simplest principals we know of atomics with the simplest ideas of our universe in order to gain any knowledge... Unless you believe we are at the end...
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
  12. sigurdV Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    352
    Lol!

    I will allow you this:
    Let it be so that a complete description of Reality can be formed to a statement by conjunction of atomic sentences like yours...

    How then do we decide if that impressive statement is true?
     
  13. BIGBRY Registered Member

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    4
    The truth should always have a bodyguard "Winston Churchill*
     
  14. lalalandscape Registered Senior Member

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    41
    This has absolutely 0 substance.
     
  15. sigurdV Registered Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    What does "This" refer to? Is it the case that it refers to "This has absolutely 0 substance."? If so its a false sentence

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  16. lalalandscape Registered Senior Member

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    You lost your argument when you claimed all you needed to do to prove something logically was look at the sentence structure. That is a false understanding of logic.
     
  17. sigurdV Registered Senior Member

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    352
    Cant remember I said exactly that?
    But since ancient times its known and accepted that logical truths are true because of their form
    for example "either a or not a" is true whatever sentence you replace a with!
    So whats youre "understanding" of logic then?
     
  18. lalalandscape Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    41
    "either a or not a" is not the only form of sentence construction, first of all.
    Secondly, logic is the function of reasoning. A statement which lacks a reason does not contain logic. Your statement "Theres two kinds of truth: Logical truth and Empirical truth." does not contain a reason. Therefore, there is no logic in the structure of that sentence. Therefore, logic =/= sentence structure, and your understanding of logic is wrong, and therein lies your disability to understand logical truth.
     
  19. river

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    17,307
    thanks NietzscheHimself

    you got to my point completely

    river
     
  20. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    890
    Every man is a liar.

    This statement is not true.
     
  21. river

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    17,307
    what statement is not true , and by whom ?
     
  22. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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  23. river

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