The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,477
    Trumps war on the "lugenpresse" has just begun: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38707722

    Problem is nearly half of the present voting population will lap it up, any bullshit his adminstartion spouts.

    ?
     
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  3. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    I heard this exchange on a local talk radio station... (paraphrased)

    Host: What's on your mind today?
    Caller: About all these people claiming there was a bigger turnout for Obama's inauguration...
    Host: Yes, go ahead.
    Caller: Well, I was discussing this with one of my liberal coworkers. I asked him "Did you, personally take either of those pictures?" He answered "no" of course, so I just said "Then how do you know they're not photoshopped?" Got him good...
    Host: We all know the lamestream media lies and manipulates every chance they get. Good job and putting your liberal friend in his place...
    I guess he has a point - we live in a post-truth world - how's a Trumper to know anything? You can find something on the internet to "prove" any assertion, no matter how outlandish. Since the wingnuts are indoctrinated to believe CNN and ABC stories are all lies it would naturally follow that Trump can say anything he likes - his supporters will swallow it hook, line and sinker. I'm not really sure how to combat that...
     
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  5. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    It's worse than that - this is a war on dissent in general - not just the press...

    Canadian and British protesters heading to the Women’s March in Washington have been denied entry to the United States.

    Joe Kroese, a British man studying in Montreal, told the Independent he was refused entry into the country after a border agent told him he was planning to attend a “potentially violent rally”.

    There were reports of other groups of would-be protesters being denied entry into the US at a land crossing in Quebec after being searched, fingerprinted and photographed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...entry-us-montreal-border-agents-a7539341.html
    Probably another trick he learned from his buddy Putin. This is no doubt what he was referring to with his "Keep the borders safe from terrorists" rhetoric...

     
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  7. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    CNN and ABC would have a simple way to combat it - stop lying, start telling the truth. This would, of course, work only in the long range. But they have time - four years. And it would work. Because it is not that difficult to distinguish honest attempts of neutral reports of the truth from intentional lies.
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Yes! They need to tell the truth like Alex Jones does!
     
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  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Trump is at war not only with the press, but the truth. His first press conference spouted nothing but lies. That's not only unprecedented, it's a "Yuge" problem. Trump's operating in a fact free world, and everyone should find that greatly disturbing.

    Trump's surrogates were on the Sunday morning shows today, and questioned about this press conference: one offered the confusion excuse and inexperience excuse, and the the others, including Kellyanne Conway evaded the question. Either way, it's not good for the Trump administration or the nation. Trump's repeated attempts to delegitimize key democratic institutions doesn't bode well for our democracy.

    What happens when the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports bad economic information? What will Trump do then? Who will Trump blame then? Will he blame the civil servants who compile the data? I think he will. Republicans have a long history of attacking civil servants when they release data which runs contrary to their narrative. But we have never had a POTUS attack the civil servants in his administration. Trump has already attacked American intelligence agencies, and referred to them as Nazis, but he wasn't POTUS at the time. He was president-elect then; now he is POTUS. But I don't think that will change Trump's loose relationship with the truth.

    Kellyanne Conway refers to Sean Spicer's very blatant lies as "alternative facts". There are no alternative facts. As of this writing, we aren't a Russian clone. There is only one set of fact. Trump doesn't get to have his own set of facts.

    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    Trump and his staffers seem to think they are entitled to their own set of facts. Traditionally, American presidents, whether Republican or Democrat, like them or not, have been credible. They have never outright lied as Trump has done. What Trump has done in his first day is diminish the credibility of the White House and the American government. Will Trump politicize the civil service and in so doing destroy it? These are very serious questions and challenges for our democracy. In order to save our democracy, we will need more demonstrations like the many peaceful demonstrations we witnessed yesterday. We are in a fight for our democracy.


    It's chilling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well comrade, here's the thing CNN and ABC aren't lying. CNN and ABC aren't like your beloved Mother Russian state owned and controlled press.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't know that. It's good to know. We need more of these peaceful demonstrations. It's a good wake-up call for Trump and his fellow Republicans. I don't know that they will listen. But it's a good attempt, and it just might educate the lesser educated folks who voted for Trump or at least get them to rethink their positions and the wisdom of their votes.
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,886
    Kellyanne Conway, one of Trump's closet advisers, reneged on Trump's year and a half long promise to release his tax returns after an alleged audit had been completed. I cannot say I'm surprised. I expected it. But that's just the latest in a long series of many lies Trump has put forth. I think it safe to say Trump will go down in history as one of, if not the most, dishonest POTUS in American history.
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    6,848
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...on-needed-verify-emoluments-clause-compliance

    "Immediately release Donald Trump's full tax returns, with all information needed to verify emoluments clause compliance."

    Petitions will be answrd if 100 thousand people sign it... an so far 219,975 have signed it... so we can expect a reply to this petition by Trump.!!!

    Im goin back to the link now to sign anuther petition:::

    "Divest or put in a blind trust all of the President's business and financial assets
    Created by H.B. on January 20, 2017"

    So far the petition needs about 36 thousand more signatures to get a reply from Trump.!!!
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,886
    It's a noble effort, but Trump and his surrogates will simply refuse. They'll deny everything, and his supporters will unquestioningly believe him as they have always done.

    These people, Trump's followers, have been taught and conditioned to only believe The Donald.
     
  15. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    6,848
    Well i will give Trump some slack... after all... on day one hes gonna be real busy repealin Obamacare... an replacin it wit somethin Terrific mayb even the same day.!!!

    I bet Paul Ryan is pleased wit a lot of work bein takin off him by Trump takin care of the Obamacare repeal an replace.!!!
     
  16. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    It is unbeleivable how these people guzzle down fake news while screaming at everyone else how it
    Well I can't wait, seriously, I want the pain now to numb me for what is to come.
     
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  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,910
    The conflict between the truth and intentional lies is not the main issue at CNN and ABC - at least, not from an outsider's perspective (if they cared about the truth, handling Trump's outright lying would only be a problem for them because of their business model, and the outsider doesn't care about their profitability).

    Their central problem is their prior conversion from news to show - not truth/lies, but reality/bullshit. And the property of bullshit that makes it so dangerous is not that it's simply or directly or entirely false - it's often true or accurate, by coincidence - but that truth and falsehood are irrelevant to it. They are both irrelevant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit And so these former news organizations have lost the ability to distinguish them in practice - a professional skill, not nearly as easy as it looks.

    Trump, for example, lies continually. But he also says true things, mixed in there, quite often - as is common with bullshit. And CNN, ABC, MSNBC, etc, have as much trouble with that as they do with the lying - in their show format of "both sides", that's a "side".

    So it's not a matter of CNN, say, presenting honest attempts at reporting the "neutral" truth (it's not the truth that's neutral, in an honest news report). It's a matter of them learning how to do that - starting with distinguishing "neutrality" from "bothsides bullshit".

    And that would mean firing most of their upper echelon punditry and management - because guys like Mathew Dowd (enforcement head of news analysis at ABC), or Chuck Todd (talking head in the bothsides crew at MSNBC) or Wolf Blitzer (feeble rider of the wind at CNN) are not going to be able change their spots on demand, not in this lifetime.

    What they are doing instead is raiding Fox for high-rated female "talent" - because Fox is where you go to get the kind of expertise they are actually interested in.

    Here's Dowd, devotee of Twitter (a kind of status fad being picked up by pudgy white bully and sycophant types throughout the executive world these days, for some reason), on the issues of the day:
    and an example of the kinds of consequences that such "analysis" has on the daily news: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/abc-news...tion-that-fox-news-bought-off-a-lot-of-women/
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  18. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    So people collecting unemployment aren't on welfare?
    Unemployment benefits are social welfare payments made by the state or other authorized bodies to unemployed people. - wiki​
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Not when you used the term to disparage the crowd at Obama's inaugural.
     
  20. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    So whether or not unemployment is a social welfare payment is dependent on who we're talking about? That's an odd and arbitrary definition.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, you know Einstein there is a reason why they call it "unemployment insurance" and not welfare. In the US it's an insurance program and not a welfare program. If you had ever been an employer, you would know that. Additionally, in order to receive unemployment benefits the unemployed are required to prove they have spent a significant amount of time looking for work. Participating in protests doesn't fit that bill.

    Welfare is generally considered to be either food or housing assistance; not unemployment insurance. In order to qualify for welfare assistance, people are required to use up virtually all of their personal resources, and if they are physically able, they have to be training for work or looking for work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,910
    Nope. It's dependent on who's using the term "welfare".

    When it's some wingnut attempting to disparage the huge crowd at Obama's inaugural, it isn't a reference to working class people laid off their hard jobs by Republican bankers.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,304
    Thanks for explaining that Joe...
    The issue I feel runs far deeper though
    say we have Trump and Media representatives sitting at a table.
    On the table is 10 "I hate Trump" Coffee mugs.
    Trump is asked how many mugs are on the table and his reply would be none.
    His reasoning excuse: "They aren't mugs they are cups." and probably made in China from china and not porcelain (not knowing that they are both a form of china)
    In other words the shared "Objective truth" that we all require for sanity is under threat. This leads to a state we see today where nobody trusts nobody....

    "Do you see what I see?"

    The international media are laughing at how Trump can call it the way he has and seemingly get a way with it, when they, with out any direct vested interest are reporting the "objective" truth about the numbers.


    Here in Australia, the media is perplexed and the Trump "team" is looking incredibly foolish and ridiculous.
    The world will no doubt side line USA interests as they look after their own with out the USA as being a competent partner.

    Already there is much work going on to ratify a successful TPP without the USA being invited.
    Essentially the world is moving towards quarantining itself from this insanity....
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017

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