The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

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  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    well.. trump ensured that any objections would be withdrawn due to his serious lacking of wisdom.
    He simply shot himself in the foot and took off a few toes.
    Such is the Republican incompetence sponsored by Russian interests including your self of course...

    After reading your posts it appears you have no idea about how serious the situation is.
    I also wonder if this occurred in Russia what sort of outcome could be anticipated...
    Say Putin was president elect, how many people would be slaughtered and sent to political prison.
    Then apply similar to China...
    compare conclusions and reappraise your perspective...

    ====
    You also fail to consider that criminal charges can not be applied to a sitting president. Any evidence would naturally be with held from publication until the person is able to be charged.

    The Mueller report has yet to be fully disclosed.
    The Epstein case has yet to be resolved...and the ex MI6 guys report earlier on may yet see some oxygen...
    and all the other crimes, (most probably including insider trading) undisclosed will get some action on once Trump is vulnerable to prosecution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  3. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    6 days to go! Good riddance!.
     
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  5. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Rudy Giuliani is on the out.

    Trump won't take his calls, and isn't going to pay him. After all, Rudy failed to come up with the evidence.

    So how much does Rudy know, about where the bodies are buried?
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Rudy has been a loyal friend to Trump
    for $20,000.00 per day
     
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    I suggest you look up the Historical Present.

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    .
    I'm sorry, Schmelzer, I've ready what you've written, and it's mostly just blinkered, biased, conspiracy-nonsense twaddle. I hope you remain happy with your delusional thinking.
    You claim to have a view from the outside, but you really don't. You have an agenda, and you're doing your best to piece together whatever you can from the letters you've cut-out from the newspaper into what you think is a coherent story that supports that agenda. If that keeps you happy, great, just don't run while holding the scissors.
     
  9. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    Sarkus has left the discussion leaving only a cheap personal attack, as normal for Western losers of a discussion.
    This presupposes that one implicitly accepts the Dem version. You know that I don't, so that this form of the answer is inappropriate.
    Republican incompetence is there, indeed. There should have been an awareness of the danger of such provocateurs, so that there should have been pro-Trump guys everywhere around the Capitol to prevent any form of violent or simply illegal behavior. If I understand the timing correctly, the first guys have entered the Capitol even before the end of Trumps speech (at least I have seen such claims). If Trump had not received an immediate info about this, so that he could react immediately, this was already definite evidence of horrible incompetence.

    That "sponsored by Russian interest" is complete nonsense. If you have not understood this even after the failure of Russiagate, I'm sorry for you. And I play here my own game. I "supported" Trump whenever he did something weakening the US globalists. Don't forget that sometimes I also supported the Dems fighting Trump - when they shot themselves into the foot. Namely, it was part of their fight against Trump that they made a big deal of the murder of Kashoggi. This seriously harmed Saudi Arabia, the main US vassal in that region. As the result, the relations US-SA weakened, and the relations SA-Russia improved. Not that the Dems would have really cared about such a murder - that's daily routine there, and Obama has supported openly even childheadcutters. But Trump had very good relations with the Saudis, and so that harming the Saudis harmed Trump too, and so they did it.

    And here I applauded to the cleverness of the Dems, naming their "Operation Capitol" master class.
    I think it is quite serious. The Dems are stupid, but not that stupid that they even don't know that they escalate. That means, they have decided to escalate. They have made a full hit against the communications of the enemy. They know that that hit will have only a short-time effect. The Trumpists will find ways to communicate. But actually they have a problem. So, actually the Dems have a time window there the enemy is disoriented because of missing communications. Either they use this time window to destroy the enemy completely, or this operation was a serious failure.
    First of all, they have no chance for doing something similar. For starters, as Pepe Escobar has written,
    Then, anti-Putin demonstrations themselves are nothing Putin would even care about. The police is professional, as long as the demonstrators only cry whatever they want, nothing happens, if they start to become violent and violate laws, they will be handled professionally. Usually they will be taken to the police station for identification, then it depends on what they have done. Business as usual. Long time ago, 2011, there was a color revolution tried against Putin being elected another time. So, essentially the same situation - mass demonstrations trying to prevent that the elected president takes power. The result: Slaughtered 0, "political prison" I count 15 in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolotnaya_Square_case#Sentences with sentences in the range around 2-4 years for the riots. Some 60 got away with fines.
    Also no need to speculate, we have seen how China reacts to such color revolution attempts in Hong Kong. Given the particular political situation in this city, the Chinese have allowed a lot, close to a real civil war starting. So, they have given the citizens, especially all those depending somehow on tourism, some time to hate these US- and UK-paid gangs for destroying their hometown. And then they appeared to be able to stop this, without the Western media being able to present a lot of horrible pictures of evil police beating poor demonstrators. So, they were quite efficient.
    Irrelevant. Whatever, when they imprison Trump I promise I will applaud. For the same reason as usual: They harm themselves, and weaken that evil empire US, by their stupidity.

    And, from https://www.strategic-culture.org/n...on-to-confrontation-washington-leads-the-way/
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  10. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    your conspiracy theories would be a lot more funny if they didn't just literally get 5 killed
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    until you actually ground your posts in objective facts and not subjective twaddle you will remain ineffectual as a communicator.
    Making unsupported associations, claiming them as fact, using logic only, also unsupported by objective reality leads you to a rabbit hole deeper than your logic addled mind can dig.

    Of course one could subjectively claim that after a few days the associated media outlets have kicked in and the propaganda wars have begun and only naive sheeple such as yourself will choose the narrative that best fits their agenda. Republicans will try to manipulate the narrative to ensure party survival and so to will Democrats. You really do need to form your own opinions that transcend the crap that is being floated at the moment.

    The facts are really quite straightforward.
    The Capital building was illegally and violently intruded upon by people (sheeple) that were incited by their sitting President and his personal Lawyer after weeks of trying over turn an election in over 60 court cases with out any sound evidence what so ever.
    Possibly this, probably that, is just chat and gossip and in your case malicious speculation bordering on paranoia.
    IMO ( subjective claim) there could be no better example of "sheeple" phenomena than what occurred at the capital building.

    Do the exercise of highlighting the subjective parts of your post then highlight the objective parts and you'll get the idea of how deep in that rabbit hole you are...
    The objective evidence to support the current impeachment is pretty damning, as was the evidence to initially impeach the President the first time round...that never got a chance to be heard.

    What you also seem to avoid understanding is that there is probably a mountain of objective facts yet to made public waiting only for someone to be free of the veil of immunity that his office allows.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Schmelzer,
    Can you please explain how Putin acquired a personal wealth of over $200 billion USD?
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    You probably are unaware that it is highly likely that the Epstein case will implicate global Freemasonry (male white supremacists) after Trump's participation with a certain British royal has been fully investigated. Remembering that that there are other than USA based investigators out there.
    The point being is that it is not only Trump that is involved. Putin, will also most likely be caught up as will a number of high profile Russian oligarchs. The GDS Global Deep State as you may choose to call it, is a hell of a lot deeper and influential than you realise...

    Edit: I just thought I'd add the above because I know just how much you love a conspiracy theory.

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    ....and perhaps you need to expand your focus to include places, people and organizations other than just in the USA. Or are you just another sheep?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Nor do you listen to people who attempt to inform you, nor do you investigate for yourself. Factchecking is something you never do here. (You will not, for example, bother to find out how many of the judges who ruled against the Republican Party's bs were appointed by Trump or some other Republican ).

    The lack of knowledge about the domestic US matters revealed in your posting is its second most visible and significant attribute (the first is its adherence to the Republican Party media feed).
    Not true.
    Your attempted points have all been about the reality of "all this" - not merely its appearance to gullible and ignorant outsiders such as yourself, but its factual nature as would influence future events. You are trying to market a reality, not describe a delusion of ignorant "outsiders".
    And your attempt to cover your ass like that is something you have done everywhere you have posted on matters of fact and record - from climate change to child labor, from who started which war to what pressures bear on which public figures.
    Nope. It is not only "plausible", but informed.
    Only in the view of the ignorant.
    You have already had your ignorance of the powers and capabilities of the US Presidency pointed out to you - you nevertheless continue to post as if a US President were some kind of tinhorn Putin.

    But that familiar aspect of your posting does not fully explain your odd vocabulary in this specific instance - "arbitrary demonstrators" is a bizarre way to refer to well-equipped military trained professionals engaged in an assault, and "weakly suggest" is either complete ignorance on your part or a fairly sophisticated deception - something you picked up from the media feed you parrot.

    That is: The cover of innocence you seem to be attempting via your many claims of ignorance is not holding. It never held for your source - the Republican media feed is not innocent - but you have been attempting to dodge the implications of that by claiming ignorance of your source. That claim is blown - your attempt to label the Capitol assault mob "BLM/ Antifa" overkilled what had become obvious.
     
  15. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    As long you mingle "objective facts" with what the Western mainstream media write, you will remain a propaganda victim. Don't think that I hope to communicate something to you - that can happen only by accident. I'm here because those who write here are from the political enemies, and so I can see from their reaction if the arguments are good or not. If they are bad, I will see some corrections here, of the content (say, the claim that Dems ruled the police - an error of the blogger who has thought that this is local police, which, in Washington DC, which is Dem ruled, would be ruled by the Dems, or the arguments made by Tiassa against that pdf about the election fakes). If the arguments are good, I will see only cheap ad hominems or simply personal attacks.
    Feel free to show me some of them. Don't speculate about me, you will err anyway. Care about the facts.
    Learn to use the invectives appropriately. Sheeple are those who follow the mainstream without thinking at all. This comes from the typical behavior of a sheep, which follows the other sheeps. If one hears the sides and makes an own decision, one is not "sheeple", even if the final choice is one of the mainstream sides.
    What about the timeline? I have mentioned it twice here but not yet seen an objection against the claim that the first have been inside the Capitol even before the end of Trumps speech. Ok, I will look myself. Let's take the official pro-Dem source, NYT, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/12/us/capitol-mob-timeline.html
    So, this was not incited by Trump supporters incited by his speech. (As I have heard, the Trump speech has been delayed. So, it would be a plausible version that the provocateurs had their own time-line, with the attack starting after the end of the speech. But once the speech was delayed, they started too early. Coordination error on the other side.)

    Of course, Trumpist sheeple would hear what their hero Trump is saying, and only after this they would do something else, so your sheeple theory of pro-Trump sheeple would be incompatible. Of course, once they arrived there and the Capitol appeared to be already taken, they follow.
    No base. If you would be able to construct an argument out of this, you would do it. To say what you say is not an argument, once not supported by something.
    QAnon says the same in the other direction. QAnon at least has a lot of believers, you haven't. Mountains of unpublished facts don't count. All those funny "facts" of the intelligence agencies they cannot present because they are secret or so. Laughable.

    They are secret payments from the Rothschilds or so. LOL. They are hidden somewhere in Central Africa and in Western banks, under another name so that the Western powers cannot confiscate it or so. You believe such nonsense? Similarly for that nonsense:
    As usual, all those who speculate about what I like are completely wrong. Is that a consequence of projection? Or simply because those "I know how much you love" are simply primitive personal attacks?
    About the US one necessarily has to care, given that it is the most aggressive, most evil, most dangerous state of the Earth. Else, I would not care at all about those stupid fat guys without any culture.
    Iceaura writes a lot of the usual lies and personal attacks against me, and simple claims without any evidence in their favor.
    Have I made an argument depending on this number?
    I describe the reasoning of reasonable people who don't have first hand information. Such reasoning starts with "cui bono".
    So now those going inside the Capitol were "well-equipped military trained professionals engaged in an assault"? Ok, I have not heard yet about this. (No doubt, among the demonstrators will be also some military trained professionals - they are people too, and some 50% or so of them will be Trump supporters too. But even in this case "arbitrary demonstrators" would be fine - they would be accidental among them. If they would be, instead, well-organized, that would be a different point. But then please the evidence. In this case the idea that they have been incited by some emotional speech of Trump would be completely off too. Military professionals do not do such things on emotions, but follow orders.
    You make here the same lie as James R that I have labelled the whole mob BLM/Antifa? I have certainly not. I have always only told about some a few busloads of provocateurs. (That's because claims about some busses have made it into the external media.) Which would be which percentage of the whole demonstration?
    If it was done by provocateurs, then 5 killed is what has to be expected. At least one from both sides is what is necessary to feed hatred on both sides.
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    lol...sheeple are any one who follows blindly...
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    and you call this evidence?

    How many buses exactly are you alleging? Do you have any photo evidence that would stand in court?
    and yet again you missed the point...It may not be only Trump that goes to jail...as you suggested
    No it's not about secrecy it is about timing...no point wasting good evidence on someone who is immune to prosecution...
    I rely very little on what media writes. Watching live video tells most of the picture ...no words needed...
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  18. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Is Donald Trump a traitor?

    A traitor is someone who materially aids or abets an enemy. If there are groups of organised seditionists in the US, clearly they are an enemy, just a domestic one.
     
  19. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    • Please do not tell lies knowingly. In this case, it is well documented as to who the protesters were that invaded the US Capitol, and who they were supporting in doing so.
    No, I call this explanation what is sufficient to do the job of provocation.
    The sources I have seen have made claims about two buses. Obviously pictures of buses alone could prove nothing. I have never claimed to have seen evidence sufficient to stand in court. From what I have seen, some pictures of some guys which were claimed to have been identified as BLM or Antifa supporters or so could, in principle, stand in court if the identification was correct. Who knows? I don't. Anyway, it would not prove much. That would require sophisticated police work which identifies organizers, but who is interested in this?

    To repeat myself: I do not even claim to have any proof that this is a BLM/Antifa false flag operation. Here are my claims:
    - The official Dem version (Trump has incited that storm with his speech) is extremely implausible.
    - The consideration of cui bono suggests a Dem-side provocation. Evidence: The Dems obviously have gained a lot. And there is no plausible scenario how Trump could have gained whatever from storming the Capitol.
    - Claims about evidence for the presence of provocateurs have been made a lot, enough for foreign observers getting them and distributing them further.
    Sorry, no, I don't suggest such things, that should be a misunderstanding. In fact, I suspect a lot of people will go to jail in near future. I made no definite claims about this, but if the Dems follow the aggressive line they have taken up to now, one has to expect a lot of more repressions coming against the Trumpistas. Of course, the repressions will follow after the final takeover 20.1.
    Sometimes yes. But identifying provocateurs simply by watching a video is a hard job. If you have software for face identification and a sufficiently large database behind you, that's a different question. But beyond this, they try to present themselves as average participants of the demonstration, thus, plausibly with some pro-Trump insignia, MAGA caps or so.

    Another case where it is not easy: If one sees some video of police violence against demonstrators, one also has to be aware that it may have a context not shown in the video. I have seen such a case live in Germany: 1 May demonstrations, in Berlin long ago, at a time when they were usually much more violent than today. A guy close enough to me to see the details throwing stones at the police. Nothing happens. Then, some time later, that same guy doing nothing, a group of policemen came nearby, running, and then running toward him and taking him. A video from that action alone would have shown the police attacking a peaceful standing man. Not sure if the police would use this tactic today, too much phones, so the typical picture today would be police reacting immediately to violence. But the other side will often cut that context of violence by the "victim" of police violence. So one also has to look if there is sufficient context in the video.
    No big difference - typically they follow the majority, but, ok, in principle one can also follow blindly a cult leader of a small cult. But note: The emphasis in that sentence was "without thinking at all". And cult followers have usually thought about joining the cult, and joining it is usually connected with breaking with a lot of other people - nothing typical for sheeple.
    Of course, once you have a nearly 50:50 division of a whole country, sheeple will be on both sides, they will usually follow the local majorities.
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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  21. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    you really dont care do you. you truly are that dead inside. that this exact rhetoric got 5 people killed and your still pushing this nonsense. they were no provocateurs. these people were the provocateurs at the left wing protests you hate. this was all the fascist thugs you've been supporting for the past years. trump encouraged them to attack the capitol and they did because they are prone to violence.
     
  22. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    Learn to read.

    Provocateurs are very dangerous criminals, part of organized crime on the highest level, and they fulfill what their chiefs tell them. If their chiefs have an interest in victims, then they will murder as well. And of course they will not murder themselves. So, the very idea that these "5 people killed ... were no provocateurs" would be somehow an argument against me is completely stupid.

    It looks like you are now the third (after James R and iceaura) who does not know completely how provocateurs work.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I bet Ken Kesey, author of "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" never thought that Trumps self delusion would appear to replicate that of Randle Mc Murphy ( played by Jack Nicholson) when he decided to incite his own downfall...
     
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