The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Surely justifying an action because the other side did it so why not us, instead of doing what is right for the nation is a tad childish don't you think.
    You seek to blame Obama for Trumps decisions and that is telling how powerful Obama was.
    let me repeat the obvious: Obama is an ex president. If he manages to stay in power by proxy because the Repubs want him to then so be it...

    uhm Trump is POTUS is he not? or is it Hillary or Obama because they are constantly being blamed for Trumps decisions by his supporters.
     
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  3. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Can't parse English? No one blamed Obama. This has been the case since 1995, by executive order of Bill Clinton.
    “Security clearances are not mandated for the President, Vice President, Members of Congress, Supreme Court Justices, or other constitutional officers,” a recent Congressional Research Service report explains. “The criteria for election or appointment to these positions are specified in the U.S. Constitution, and except by constitutional amendment, no additional criteria (e.g., holding a security clearance) may be required.”

    In fact, the security clearance system itself is an expression of presidential authority. Its scope and operation are defined in an executive order (EO 12968), and its terms can be modified by the President at will.

    And if the President wished to grant access to classified information to a family member, for example, there would be no legal barrier to doing so.
    https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2016/11/clearances-presidential/
    I wouldn't be surprised if every president since then has exercised this authority, which was inherent in the position (as presidents can declassify anything they like) before the executive order made it explicit.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,906
    You failed to read with comprehension. You took innuendo for fact - as you were intended to, by the people playing you.
    No, they say he was apparently and initially denied it. If you pay attention, they either say or fail to deny that he nevertheless obtained it, almost certainly on an interim basis, and possessed clearance while working with the transition - before inauguration.
    Yes, I did. Direct quote, in a linked source.
    Anonymous, unfortunately, but so was every source for that - I cannot find a source that actually deals with the timeline claimed.
    And neither can you, so far.
    And I'm done looking, since the point itself is tangential. The problem is not that security clearance as set up doesn't work, the problem is that nothing works if your basic security problem is the President. We have elected a security risk, and his entire executive team is the predicted and obvious extension of that.

    It's been over a year now, and these people still haven't got security clearances - a six to eight week process. We've seen people with high level jobs spend their entire tenure - and then go back to unmonitored civilian life - without ever getting actual clearance. We've seen people file dozens of major issue "amendments" to their clearance applications - forms which are certified as accurate and complete by oath, under penalty of law.

    They can't get clearance because they are corrupt, compromised, unpatriotic, venal, incompetent, and often downright stupid, people.

    This is a mess, a rolling fuckup that will keep rolling unless and until this President is removed from office.
    Christ you are thick.

    Alternatives exclude. Time and money spent on on thing is subtracted from another. Teachers now spend significant personal time and money on preparing for school, usually as much as they are comfortable devoting, and this will obviously be part of that in many cases - a subtraction from other preparation, and therefore a cost borne by the school.

    Then there are the other costs - monitoring and enforcement, insurance, the various issues that arise from this new thing. There are going to be accidental discharges, for example. Thefts. There are going to be large extra costs associated with schools lacking sufficient volunteer teacher arming (a majority, most likely). etc.

    There is no free lunch. Trump's proposal will cost the schools time and money - there is no way around that. The other proposals you overlooked are many of them even more expensive. There are lots of proposals on the table that schools would have to pay dearly for, and none that fail to incur costs borne by the schools.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,906
    Meanwhile, a reminder that the bustout that is this Republican Congress and Executive Branch is not Trump, and not Trumpism: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/06/epa-scott-pruitt-aid-private-clients/
    Scammer # 1:
    No Republican signatories.
    And #2:
    And the sleaze mitigation efforts, fate of:
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Another top Trump advisor resigns. Gary Cohn.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Gary Cohn, the top economic adviser to U.S. President Donald Trump and a voice for Wall Street in the White House, said on Tuesday he would resign, a move that came after he lost a fight over Trump’s plans for hefty steel and aluminum import tariffs.
    src: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ohn-quits-after-tariffs-dispute-idUSKCN1GI2ZS
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    We're seeing more cracks in the bothsides media narrative on this one - some major pundits are even starting to use terms like "collaborate" in reference to anyone involved with this administration.

    As in: Cohn "collaborated" with this administration for more than a year, all the way through the racial and sexual and Russian and money scam stuff, and tariffs are his bridge too far?

    It's almost too late to get out.

    It's probably too late to get out of the Republican Party, as well.
     
  10. douwd20 Registered Senior Member

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    He's having a really bad week. When your chief economic advisor resigns an hour before your personal porn star sues you for malfeasance, right after your chief domestic advisor is found to violate the Hatch Act because you told her to support the pedophile in Alabama - it's official - YOU are absolutely the very worst president in American history.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    And once the TPP# is signed excluding USA tomorrow(?) it may get even worse.

    #40% (?) of global trade and no USA in on the deal because of Trump's superior deal breaking behavior.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  12. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    I took the only reports as the only reports. You haven't shown otherwise.
    Wishful-reading on your part.
    Again, you didn't actually quote anything. Just a link you seem to have read your own confirmation bias into.
    I already cited and quoted the only reports that could be found on the timeline. So you are both lying that I couldn't and giving up because you obviously can't find any to the contrary (supporting your own claim).
    Again, not mandated. So only those "comfortable devoting" their time and money (or already have a carry permit) will do so. This is a subtraction from personal time, which you don't seem to think exists for teachers. Or is all teacher personal time a "cost borne by the school?"
    I've answered your nonsense about "other costs" many times now. If you refuse to view reality and facts, I'm pretty sure repetition won't help.
    And no one is happier than Democrats:
    Newly announced tariffs have labor unions and liberal Democrats in the unusual position of applauding Trump's approach.
    ...
    "Good, finally," said Sen. Sherrod Brown, an Ohio Democrat and progressive as he cheered Trump's move. Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, a Democrat who has called for Trump to resign, agreed.

    "I urge the administration to follow through and to take aggressive measures to ensure our workers can compete on a level playing field," Casey tweeted.

    This moment of unusual alliance was long expected. As a candidate, Trump made his populist and protectionist positions on trade quite clear, at times hitting the same themes as one of the Democratic presidential candidates, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/tru...ing-him-cheers-from-democrats-and-unions.html
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    If I was a Democrat I'd cheer him on too...I would also do it if I was a Russian as well... ( chuckle)
    Nothing could get Trump and the Republicans out of government more soundly that what is most likely to happen to the USA economy if he does apply those sorts of protection measures.
    The construction sector is already slowing according to reports.
    You gotta remember that the only ones paying the tariff are USA businesses and corporations that require Iron and Alum'm for manufacturing. Ultimately the end consumer.. yes?
    Like the wall... Mexico ain't paying for it...( as promised by Trump)

    .globalization ain't going away just because Trump don't like it...
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,906
    Yeah, I did. Quote box and link to source.
    I found others. And yours don't say what you claimed - not even the lying-ass Gorka claims Rhodes had no clearance on inauguration day.
    Personal time and expense diverted from classroom prep to gun training is a cost borne by the school. It's a finite resource, already maxed out by many if not most teachers.
    You have not. You haven't addressed insurance, for example - your claim that schools cannot be sued was silly, and you simply ignored the oversight and bureaucratic costs, as well as the inevitable accident rehab and repair. You also haven't addressed the costs of security for schools who lack sufficient willing teachers - which will be a majority of them: teachers by and large think the idea is a product of ignorance about their actual jobs and circumstances.

    Like all of Trump's proposals, that one is unworkable in real life.

    Meanwhile: ain't this guy Nunberg a trip? I had him confused with the less entertaining but equally loose-cannon Nader, for some reason, but I don't think Nader has immunity.
    Nader: http://amp.slate.com/news-and-polit...p-attempt-to-set-up-kremlin-back-channel.html
    http://www.mahablog.com/2018/03/07/bob-muellers-new-best-friend/
    Nunberg: https://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2018/03/more-nunberg-nevermind-sarah-sanders
    https://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2018/03/judge-napolitano-has-bad-news-trump


    We're going to need a chart and a timeline just to follow the major crimes here, in this Presidency.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  15. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    648
    Exactly. Anyone who understands basic economic, or reason, should understand that.
    No, you posted a link I quoted that showed you couldn't parse your own source. Otherwise, link to the post and prove me wrong.
    Again, Obama gave him clearance through a presidential waiver.
    So teachers have no personal time? Again, are they slaves?
    Municipalities being able to decide who has standing to sue it a real thing. I've already given you a reference, and you can look it up yourself. Your incredulous scoffing is not a refute. You're just making up more nonsense like schools having to pay for teacher personal time. Schools don't currently pay for SROs, so why would they pay for more?
    In the aftermath of last week’s deadly school shooting in Florida, hundreds of teachers and administrators have expressed interest in carrying a firearm to defend themselves and their students, according to one county sheriff from Ohio.
    http://www.newsweek.com/sheriff-concealed-carry-classes-teachers-815242

    Hansen is one of an unknown number of armed teachers across the country. Legally gun-owning adults are now allowed to carry guns in public schools in more than two dozen states, from kindergarten classrooms to high school hallways. Seven of those states specifically allow teachers and other school staff to carry guns in their schools.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/invest...rs-authorized-carry-weapons-classroom-n208946
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,906
    Not before the inauguration.
    And you need better evidence than Gorka's sayso for after the inauguration. Which you have not provided (and I couldn't find either).
    The personal time they are willing to devote to school prep is a finite resource, already maxed out in many cases.
    I read your source. If you read it, you will discover that it describes the circumstances under which schools can and do get sued. That would include gross or unusual negligence in overseeing armed employees - so not only insurance, but oversight and monitoring costs, are unavoidable. Plus the inevitable accidents.

    Again: you are attempting to defend a very bad idea from a President who has emitted dozens of them. There's no point - Trump is going to put out bad ideas until he is removed from office.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Doing the rounds on social media at the moment....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Meanwhile, in other news, ProPublica has compiled a database of Trump administration appointees that can be searched for conflicts of interest, lobbying influence, etc - and you'll never in a million years guess what they are finding: https://www.propublica.org/article/...ds-of-ex-lobbyists-and-washington-dc-insiders

    Mind, this is the clean pool, the accountability end of the swamp - there are also the many hundreds of Trump hires who are "special", "interim", etc employees not required to file conflict of interest declarations, employment details, or lobbying history, at all.
     
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  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Wow, that is truly horrifying.
     
  20. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Anything is better than the goose egg you've shown. I quoted your own source and gave you one of my own: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-trump-presidency.158659/page-125#post-3508181
    But in iceaura's bizarro world, only sources matter, even if none support his claim.
    So all of a teacher's personal time, outside of school, is already occupied with school prep?
    No recreation, even during their three month off in the summer?
    Again, are teachers slaves?
    No, it doesn't. Otherwise you could quote it saying so.
    Again, you're making up nonsense the president hasn't proposed, and fighting that straw man instead.
    Last resort. If a shooter gets past a barricaded door, the teacher can either shield students with her body, or have the opportunity to shoot back. One has zero chance of stopping a shooter.
    This kind of hyperbole is either highly dishonest or very ignorant.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,906
    School prep time, money, and attention, is a limited resource in all teacher's lives. Alternatives exclude.
    And you still have the insurance, oversight, enforcement, and mishap costs borne by the schools.
    And you have the costs for those schools who lack sufficient volunteer teachers.
    Yes, it does. And you can do your own homework assignments.
    My quoted source supported my claim. None of your sources support your claim except Gorka's throwaway line, he's an established liar, and even his claim does not directly conflict with mine.
    To remind you, this is my claim: that Rhodes had a security clearance of some kind by inauguration day - that his work on the transition team was legal. I quoted one of the several sources similar to this one: https://www.redstate.com/streiff/20...e-top-white-house-adviser-security-clearance/
    In addition, I can find no source for the claim that after inauguration he obtained permanent clearance by waiver from Obama. Neither can you, apparently. (Gorka doesn't count, of course.) What I find instead are speculations and demands for inquiries - inquiries whose subsequent findings never appear - including quite often the accusation that Obama "pressured" the FBI to grant Rhodes clearance.
    Of course that directly conflicts with the claim that Rhodes got his permanent clearance by waiver . The bullshit mountain builders can't even get it into one pile.

    None of that shinola makes any sense.
    What does make sense is that the FBI found out that Rhodes had all kinds of Iranian government connections, and refused to grant him interim clearance;
    whereupon Obama pointed out he was hiring the guy for his Iranian knowledge and connections, that's why he needed him, and could they please not be dumbasses and screw up his treaty negotiations;
    whereupon they muttered darkly and assigned a couple of agents to monitor him, but granted his clearance like the President wanted them to.

    That's speculation, of course. But it fits the facts as we know them, and doesn't contradict itself - so it's the best story on the table so far.

    Meanwhile, the Trump administration was handing top secret stuff to people who had been on bogus interim clearance for over a year, and had been forced to "amend" their application for security clearance two, three, four times. The Trump administration was inviting Russian agents into the Oval Office, and hosting dinners for Malaysian heads of State while the FBI was in late stage investigation of massive money laundering by them, and so forth.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,304
    Well ... I don't know what to think...
    NK offers a meeting with Trump to discuss nuke disarmament of the Korean peninsular.
    Trump accepts the offer.
    NK suddenly gone very quiet...
    Perhaps they didn't think Trump would take them up on it?

    If Trump does indeed pull off the deal of the millennia he deserves credit for successfully dealing with one of the biggest historical and seriously intractable issues the world has faced.
    It also opens a way to deal with the many nations that are exploring the nuke option. One that the USA needs to get a handle on.

    My bet is that NK is going to demand that USA disarm it's nukes as a prerequisite for NK to disarm.
    Of course this will lead to failure of negotiations but allows NK time to even further develop in the mean time.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    So another one bites the dust.... Tillerson is out! The only rational voice in the administration has left the building.....
    Incredible news!
     

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