The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. The New JT Registered Member

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    42
    Violence is not abnormal, however, making a decision with such obvious repercussions is.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,091
    And immediately your statement becomes false.

    Trump, for example, has proposed diverting the monetary and time contributions of teachers from classroom and educational matters to conceal carry training and equipment. Others have proposed paying teachers for their time and effort in that regard. All these proposals require diversion of school funds to insurance and enforcement and so forth on top of those diversions. Etc.
    Kushner has never had standard clearance - he was operating under a temporary "interim" provision. The likeliest visible reason he never got clearance is that he is involved in shady business and personal dealings with foreign powers, has financial problems, and is therefore open to both influence and blackmail. His being forced to "amend" his clearance application several times, to add meetings with Russian officials and other stuff he had somehow forgotten, probably didn't help. I don't know what the record is for someone "amending" that application - on which filing incomplete information of material significance is perjury punishable by law - but he's got to be close to it.
    According to the intertubes Rhodes received his full and standard security clearance before Obama took office. There is no record of his having to "amend" his filing.
    Trump can probably overrule the FBI, as Obama apparently did not, and hand out top secret security clearances to anyone he likes - Jared, Melania, Tiffany's boyfriends, Jared's father and brother, Ivanka's gal pals https://www.snopes.com/2016/08/15/ivanka-trump-socializes-with-wendi-deng/ , anyone.
    And it would be perfectly in character for him to do so. Whether it would mean nothing for him to do so I leave to the Furies.
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    5,023
    It's been 50 years since I got my ts++ clearance, but, if memory serves, the fbi advises and the decision is made by the commander.
    When I needed an upgrade to crypto(for unfettered access to the crypto vault wherein we stored tapes of ts briefings) all it seemed to take was a request to the commander who expedited the granting of the clearance in @ one day)(including changing the id badge)
    (as I posted---this was a long time ago ---it may have taken 2-3 days?)
    If they are still playing by the same rules, then this is all on Trump?
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,091
    That sounds military.
    This is civilian. Jared doesn't have a commander.
    If it were on Trump, Jared would have had full top secret clearance on January 21 of last year.

    Meanwhile, the real estate business Jared's been running out of the White House appears to be sound and worthy of large extensions of credit: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/jared-kushner-apollo-citigroup-loans.html
    And in one of those quiet little comments that make the goodside reputation of the NYT:
    Of course, there isn't exactly no precedent:
    https://www.publicintegrity.org/2000/08/02/3279/cheney-led-halliburton-feast-federal-trough
    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Halliburton_Company
    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cheney_Energy_Task_Force

    This is how the Republican Party is set up to govern, how it is organized to handle the governance of the United States.
     
  8. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    648
    Mass violence isn't abnormal? Do you have any stats that support that?
    You keep making these claims you never support.
    Just more noise. Oo, oo, oo!
    Yes, just like Rhodes had his interim clearance revoked.
    But the president can give him clearance at any time, just like Obama did for Rhodes.
    Rhodes got his clearance through presidential waiver. He got denied interim clearance by the FBI. Look it up.
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,099
    So trump is going to slap tariffs on Iron and Alum'm. I hope he has done his math right... a few hundred jobs gain to the rust belt may equal a 10's of thousands jobs lost to other sectors. Or worse as a trade war heats up. Bill Gates-Warren B. may be correct in saying that 20o8 crash may be just an small example of what is "inevitable" in the near future.

    The US Commerce Department plugged the plans for a 25 per cent tariff on steel imports and 10 per cent on aluminium into its modelling and found, just for starters, the idea was bad for national security because it weakens domestic manufacturers who supply among other things, the US military.

    "In plain language, these tariffs are a terrible idea," said Tom Porcelli, US chief economist with the investment bank RBC.

    "In fact it is such a terrible idea that there was talk amongst the GOP [Republican Party] today about pulling some of the President's unilateral trade authority."

    As Kansas-based Republican chairman of the House Agriculture Committee Pat Roberts said: "Every time you do this you get retaliation [and] agriculture is the number one target."
    src: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...eat-for-australia-but-terrible-for-us/9502118
     
    Vociferous likes this.
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    26,091
    It's called "arithmetic". Try it.
    I did look it up. He got his clearance from the FBI, and apparently before Obama's inauguration, according to all sources I could find, such as this one: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/congress-probes-fbi-ben-rhodes-security-clearance/
    The complaint from the whackjobs is that Obama leaned on the FBI somehow, during the transition or afterwards. No source says anything about any "waiver", even after inauguration.
     
  11. ChucklesM Banned Banned

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    85
    Trump will be impeached the same day Maxine Waters wins on Jeopardy!.
     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    52,875
  13. ChucklesM Banned Banned

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    85
    Trump will be impeached the same day Michael Moore finishes a marathon without stopping for oxygen, 2 cheeseburgers, fries, a Cinnabon, and a Diet Coke.
     
  14. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    52,875
    I'm glad he's getting in shape because that's going to happen in 2019!
     
  15. ChucklesM Banned Banned

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    85
    As a black man, I trust a white Sheriff in Cobb County, Georgia in a MAGA hat chewing Red Man and wearing reflective sunglasses stopping me at 2 a.m. on a dark, desolate, rural road in my new, shiny, NY-plated Cadillac Escalade with dark tinted windows and 40” spinners while I blast “Cop Killer” and reach under my seat for my license, registration, and insurance, much more than I trust Robert Mueller. Or Barack Obama.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    52,875
    You're not black.
     
  17. ChucklesM Banned Banned

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    85
    I’m not Wesley Snipes black, no. Closer to Denzel Washington brown.

    I’m blacker than Obama. I don’t have freckles. Ain’t it great?
     
  18. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    52,875
    You're no doubt whiter than Mitt Romney in a snow storm.
     
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  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,091
    That's how the Russian bots were posting during the 2016 campaign.

    Of course, given the degradation of the Republican Party, and its hold on US government, that may well be the case.

    That Party can't take care of even the basic tasks of governance. No one can count on the current Republican Congress or any Republican Court appointee to do their job at even the fundamental level - establish a budget and tax accordingly, oversee the workings of law enforcement, help see to the defense of US against attack by foreign powers, check and balance a rogue Executive functionary.

    There's a common illusion that fascism at least takes care of business, handles the mechanics, gets things done. It does not. It establishes a policy of lying about what happened, instead. Italian fascists never made the trains run on time, for example - they just recorded fiction, lied about the arrival and departure records.

    And everybody knew, at least in Italy, how one actually had to plan when traveling by train. Just as everybody knows what's going on with Trump's business interests and Russian deals, and why he won't release his tax returns.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  20. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    648
    Yes, the arithmetic of voluntary gun carriers paying for their own training, just like everyone else.
    Wow. You couldn't even parse the first sentence of your own link:
    "A top White House national security adviser and key proponent of the Obama administration's diplomacy with Iran is the focus of a congressional inquiry following disclosures the FBI may have denied him top-level security clearances"​
    It was even reiterated:
    "Ben Rhodes, a White House deputy national security adviser who led the administration's efforts to mislead Congress about the terms of the Iran nuclear agreement, is under scrutiny in the wake of disclosures he was declined interim clearance status by the FBI in 2008, when the administration was moving into the White House."​
    And:
    "Emails released as part of a hack on Obama administration confidante John Podesta confirm that Rhodes was not able to pass preliminary background checks by the FBI in 2008."​
    And we now know the facts:
    Interestingly, even if the FBI and CIA say there is some reason to deny a clearance (for example, prior drug use), the president has the authority to issue an individual waiver, since he is the head of the executive branch that runs the whole system for classified materials and because the White House is its own “adjudication authority.” This is how Ben Rhodes, President Obama’s deputy national security adviser, spent all eight years in the West Wing after the FBI denied him even an interim security clearance.
    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...learances-not-rob-porter-are-the-real-problem
    Nope. See above.
    "Many" doesn't mean "normal."
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,099
    Isn't Obama an ex-President?
    Isn't it a bit childish to state/claim that "If the dems could do it therefore so can the repubs"?
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    26,091
    No, you don't. Sebastian Gorka is not a reliable source, and others (I quoted one) flatly contradict him.
    Rhodes had a security clearance before Obama was inaugurated, according to every source I can find that includes the timeline.
    I read fine. You don't.
    The claim was that the FBI denied Rhodes an interim clearance at the beginning of the transition, or at least said they were going to.
    Everyone agrees that is at least possible, although never yet confirmed - various Podesta emails seem to indicate that.

    What everyone who mentions it (and almost nobody does) also agrees is that he nevertheless possessed one before Obama was inaugurated. That would be before Obama could issue waivers. That would have been an interim one, probably. How he obtained it is not known, and somewhat mysterious - illegitimate pressure on the FBI is possible, but unsubstantiated. Presidential waiver is not possible, unless W provided one.

    The claim that his permanent clearance was then obtained by waiver is possible, but never yet substantiated. I can't find any source that verifies one or the other. (Gorka is of course an established and familiar liar)

    And the conclusion remains: Trump's White House is loaded with security risks, much more flagrant and disturbing than Rhodes ever was whether he had a security clearance or not.
    And that money, time, and effort thereby not available from the teachers for other school matters, subtracted. Then subtract the insurance, various enforcement and supervisory costs, and so forth.

    There is no free lunch, not even at school. All the arming of teachers proposals impose costs on the schools involved.
     
  23. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    648
    It's not a "yeah, but" proposition. It's the existing laws. Any president has the power to issue clearance waivers. It's not like Obama got away with doing something special or unusual.
    You didn't quote anyone at all. I quoted from your link to show where you failed to read it.
    You haven't supported your claim. Just noise. Oo, oo, oo!
    You have not supported the bolded claim. I doubt you ever will.
    All reports say he was denied interim clearance during the transition (before inauguration).
    Just like everyone else, it's personal time, money, and effort. You sound like you think teachers are 24/7 slaves or something.
    I've already debunked all this nonsense from you. It's just noise now. Oo, oo, oo!
     

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