The true Islam - Misconceptions and media distortions aside

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Yosef, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. Yosef Registered Senior Member

    I find it sad that most of what is presented about Islam to the general public in the west is negative: Some cleric orders killing of a politician (not that it does not happen among the jews or christians against muslims/arabs), Muslims are going to celebrate 11/09 (the fact is that this year's Eid al Fatir may coincide with that unfortunate memory) etc... Just misleading headlines and reporting... Good knowledge needs more effort from the readers side, I believe...

    You may find it very surprising, for example, that most Muslims don't take people like Bin Laden very seriously . Many would say he is insane living in the mountains while he has the money to live a very good life in his original country (or were able to).

    I am going in this thread to present articles written by Islamic thinkers about various topics / daily life issues. I hope that the knowledge would prove helpful. I hope it will help to build bridges between the people of the world.

    The first article is by Muhammad Rattib al Nabulsi: Modern Islamic thinker, a man with God's light in his heart. I enjoy listening to him very much. I find his lectures very refreshing. Dr. Nabulsi CV can be found on this page.


    The Prophet Muhammad's Mercy, Justice and Love (PDF file)
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  3. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    The equivalence with Jews and Christians is without any credibility, and akin to the laughable statement MUSLIMS ARE AGAINST ALL FORMS OF TERRORISM.

    The truth is that 'ALL' clerics spew jihad and murder [critical mass applies] - and unlike Jews and Christians - no Muslims stand up to those clerics. Bin Laden is free - but anyone making cartoon satires have their throats cut and nuns killed.

    Has not the quran a command its a blessing to kill the infidels - and is that not terrorism?
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  5. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

    A few examples of muhamed's mercy from the hadiths (accepted hadiths)
    IMO Muhammed was a warlord who created a religion to strengthen his position and unite the arab tribes under his banner.

    Not sure what the standard number of campaigns for a prophet of god is but 19 seems respectable

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    Look what a good sport he was he even gave women some booty if they fought with him (not as much as men though) and even though they may have slaughtered thier enemies they spared the kiddies :m:

    Muhammed of the white thighs catches the folk of Khaibar on thier way to work and kicks some ass!!

    Somebody pisses Mo off so he sends his thugs to murder him.

    The people who heard Muhammad's message went on a campaign of conquest after his death this is historical fact. Muslims always come with apologetics saying that muslims fought defensive wars but that is simply not the case. There were no muslims to defend in Cyprus, Crete, Sicily, North Africa, Persia, Spain, Afghanistan, Southern France, India, Anatolia etc. etc. All of these places were invaded by muslim armies within 100 years of muhamed's death. That is to say that the earliest muslims were violent and imperialistic. Who knows what Muhamed preached best you or people who actually heard what he said and conquered/colonized as much land as they could? Muslims even raided Rome and pillaged the church of st peter in 846 less than 200 years after the death of muhamed.

    I don't give a shit if you are a muslim, what irks me is the constant preaching about how great and peaceful etc islam is, sorry but that is just bullshit from day one. I am not saying any other religion is any better (they aren't, they all divide humanity)
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
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  7. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

    Clearly Just as Bin Laden and those who think he is good like hatred of the West and wants to encourage that hatred to grow many in the West like hatred of Islam and want to encourage that hatred to grow.

    The previous two posts are like Bin Laden supporters style thinking in that they want to spread hatred.
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member


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    Why did you write muslims/arabs? What does being of the Arab culture have to do with Islam?

    - Monotheism is not enlightened nor logical. It's a classic example of Appeal to Authority and is a fallacy.

    - The exact same is true when stating Mohammad was a "Prophet". The term Prophet is, again, just classic example of Appeal to Authority fallacy.

    - The exact same is true when stating the Qur'an is "Perfect". Just another pathetic example of Appeal to Authority fallacy.

    The reason why Islam is built from the ground up on a Fallacy, is because it's novel teachings are generally considered by most non-Islamic people as unenlightened and illogical. The rest is just a hack of Christianity - itself based on the same illogical premises. If Islam were truly enlightened and indeed logical then there'd be absolutely no need for terms like God, Prophet or Perfect as the concepts being taught therein would be self-evident enlightened, insightful and logical.

    People who spend a lifetime following illogical unenlightened superstitious ideologies tend to become illogical unenlightened superstitious people who then form illogical unenlightened superstitious societies - See the Middle East for a primary example of such.

    Unless I'm mistaken Islam is based in the intolerant ideas of only One True God, a Last Prophet and a Perfect Qur'an?
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
  9. Pit JAADD Registered Senior Member

    Nothing. There are Christian and Jewish Arabs, and probably Arabs of other religions. Not all Arabs are Muslim, and not all Muslims are Arabs.

    Any Religion is based on a couple of things that cannot be questioned. Monotheism is, by definition, the belief in only one deity. I think you are confusing intolerance with faith. It is possible to have belief in only on God while having respect for someone else's beliefs.
    Also, Both Islam and Christianity are based off of Judaism. But all share common sets of beliefs, while being quite different.
    And as for the "Appeal to authority" Thing, you could say that about anything where you refer to a higher authority. Apply that logic to physics:
    Scientist A: "I think result X is because of theory Y by Expert Z"
    Scientist B: "Stop validating what you're doing by appealing to a higher authority!"
  10. weed_eater_guy It ain't broke, don't fix it! Registered Senior Member

    I haven't been on sciforums in a while, but in light of recent events I'd like to just throw this rant up and this thread feels like a good place to toss it. It'll probably be ignored, but heck, it'll make me feel a bit better.

    I'm an American, and a Christian, and I would like to apologize for the conduct of my countrymen in regards to the Muslim faith. I believe it's fine for one to secure their own personal religious grounds and to choose not to agree with certain fundamental constructs of other faiths. In fact, this religious freedom is one of the very fibers upon which the United States was founded. Therefore, current American wholesale dismissal of a religion of whom some 1.3 billion people claim as their own is not only a glorious display of arrogance, but completely, one-hundred-percent hypocritical!

    I'm not the only American who thinks so, but folks like me don't cause as much of a stir as the handful of supremely moronic Americans, and hence, they end up getting far more air time on television. Those are the types that present a picture of America to the world that kinda reflects Germany circa 1933 in regards to tolerance of a particular faith.

    To all Muslims, please forgive Americans, most of us are not what you may see on TV. We're actually pretty good folk, albeit stranded on a continent physically distant from much of the world. And please don't let some Koran-burners in Florida and mosque protesters in New York represent a nation that is otherwise a melting pot of many immigrant cultures.

    To the Americans that come on TV and provoke things, for the love of god f***ing stop it already. You've already sparked riots in other countries, let's leave it at that and pretend this all never happened, and everything will be fine. Put your earnest passion for protest into domestic matters, like our educational system, which has obviously failed to provide you with a correct or even rational world-view.
  11. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    But all Arabians don't say its a blessing to kill infidels while eating humous, nor do they all dump mosques in other peoples' sacred sites - and boast it is a good thing and also deny their deeds. There are other far more impacting differences of people in Arabia than the Arab term. Why leave out the most juicy bits!
  12. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

    There is nothing false in my post and no hate mongering. I am just sick of hearing how misunderstood islam is. My barber is a muslim and I rent half of my house out to a muslim family I don't have to hear them preach and they don't have to hear me tell them what I think of their religion, the same holds for the christians and jews I know.
  13. Yosef Registered Senior Member

    I want to let you know that the content of your message will be passed further by me to people here where I live. I am well aware that it doesn't take many people in order to destroy for a whole nation. My faith in God and the teachings of the Holy Quran guide me to the basic principle that all humans are equal. It is not the wealth nor the color that should make a difference. Here's what God says regarding this:

    "O men! verily, we have created you of a male and a female; and we have divided you into peoples and tribes that ye might have knowledge one of another. Truly, the most worthy of honour in the sight of God is he who feareth Him most (is righteous and has reverence for God). Verily, God is Knowing, Cognisant." Holy Quran - Apartments 49:13

    About attacking innocent people earning a living on a Monday morning on September 2001, God says:

    "Fight in God's way with those who fight with you, but transgress not; verily, God loves not those who do transgress[sup](a)[/sup]." Holy Quran - The Heifer 2:190

    The verb used in this verse is "taa'tadoo" which can be used in the context of a drunk man pushing forcefully to the ground another because the latter disagreed with him in an argument. So, putting a limit to thousands of innocent peoples' lives is not justified at all.

    Yes, there is much rage in the Muslim world against the US because of its foreign policies but that doesn't justify the killing of innocent people.

    [sup](a)[/sup] Commentary by translator: War is permissible in self-defense, and under well-defined limits. When undertaken, it must be pushed with vigour (but not relentlessly), but only to restore peace and freedom for the worship of God. In any case strict limits must not be transgressed: women, children, old and infirm men should not be molested, nor trees and crops cut down, nor peace withheld when the enemy comes to terms.
  14. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    Exaggerated raging is an Islamic response for any grievience, and what this refers to is murder of innocent folk with no hesitance and appluading it as a blessing. But look what your Islam has done to other peoples and countries robbed, violated and desecrated by what you call holy quran - here, an Iranian in exile gives the truth with more credibility than a Muslim boasting about his own doctrines selectively. There is nothing holy or sacred Islamic soil of robbery and distortions of truth hiding behind belief doctrines:

  15. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    I wish! Where then do we see these premises recorded in Christianity and Islam:





    # A stranger is one from a different belief.
  16. Ja'far at-Tahir Grand Ayatollah of SciForums Registered Senior Member

    I like the idea of this thread but as far as this forum is concerned I don't think it's going to change many minds here but then again, I could be wrong.

    Nice thread though bro.
  17. Ja'far at-Tahir Grand Ayatollah of SciForums Registered Senior Member

    Please, the association with Islam and Arabs is obvious, especially in Western culture and dialogue, infact in my brief stays and visits in the West I have met those whom used (to my face) the terms 'Arab' 'Iraqi' and 'Muslim' all interchangably. I think you're trying to play dumb here.

    Argumentum ad logicam. This argument here is absurd.

    In what way is saying Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet argumentum ad verecundiam? This sounds like an assumption and also this argument sounds absurd.

    See above.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  18. jmpet Valued Senior Member

    First off, OBL is not insane, he is evil. And he needs to be removed from the Earth for the evil he perpetrated. Quote any of a dozen Quaranic reasons- this guy's gotta be waterboarded to death after 1,000 waterboards.

    Secondly- and most important- is that the true Muslim way of life is at serious odds with reality. It is a guidebook to live a good Muslim life, but it is based on 1,500 year old customs which don't hold up today. Equal rights for women and gays immediately comes to mind.

    I love the Qu'ran and hold it in as high regard as the whole Bible. But, just like the Bible, is not a perfect book.

    As such, I read it with a grain of salt- as all people should do in all religions.
  19. Neverfly Banned Banned

    No matter how you slice it...

    Killing or spewing hate because of religious beliefs is and always will be (Unless a specific deity is Proven...) an absolute absurdity.

    Most of the major religions contain scriptures that are more than just intolerant- simply because a basis for such religions is that it's the correct belief and anyone not holding to it must be inferior.

    And I think that most average people are not to keen on hatred or killing. They tend to 'ignore' the darker scriptures...
    But those that take scripture literally, to extremes or just plain as an excuse to justify personal hatred- It's all they need.

    A person does not need to be an extremist to hate another. The OP of this thread covers misinformation spread because of intolerance.

    The irony is, as a non believer, I find myself even a little intolerant of religion in general.
    Because religion is based on unfounded statements and faith, not evidence. And that people are so eager to kill each other or spread ignorance about each other or attack science or scientists over what I equate with Puff the Magic Dragon, elves, fairies and gnomes...

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    It just boggles my mind.
  20. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    No comment, you know my answer.

    we did discuss about tha before, and always same answers and opinions, why not just copy old posts and paste them here?

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  21. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    The real facts on the table:

    We cannot prove the creator. There cannot be no creator.

    That is real science.

    Most scriptures are candy coating their preferred localised NAMES and did not offer humanity a single thing relevant to this real world: beware those who promise diamonds and virgins in the hereafter. Only one scriptures openly and boldly accounts man's poor deeds, how the ancient world really was without candy coating it, then lays down the laws how things should be. Its proof is that no other scripture gave humanity a single law - one gave all laws - exclusively. Check that and be astonished!

    They tend to ignore reality, candy coating it. They are capable of the worst crimes in humanity - and their history affirms this. Check that out.

    How does one take, LET THERE BE LIGHT - literally or figuritively? Which law is literal, LOVE THE STRANGER - or LOVE YOUR ENEMY? Why don't you speak literally!

    Non-believers are generally far better people than believers - because more than half of today's religionsts are based on robbery and manipulation of what they never observed or understand. This gives them bad doctrines of exclusive kingdom keys and no creator without Mohammed. A true scripture demands equal rghts for all, including other life forms. All animal rights laws come from one scripture - exclusively. Check that out.

    Only false beliefs are based on faith - because they have nothing in reality square. Check that out!

    In a true scripture, nothing can be disproven, and all gets proven as time goes on. Which scripture has already proven over 70% of its writings thus far - scientifically - which ones have proven zero? Check that out.



    Chances are, your parents remained silence of these crimes - and their children either became atheists - or even worse hateful than their parents: choose one. The fundamental things apply.

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  22. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    I'm on the same page. He belongs in Gitmo, but he conned America with YES WE CAN bytes.

    Wrong. There is no such thing as Islamic law. Prove one such law? Gay rights is not a moral/ethical issue but an existential one: fact is, if 20% of the pop became gay, humanity would not survive after a few generations. Gay rights will condone incest and beastiality - the same principles impact in a lawcourt. If you care for gays, then know that gay rights is good for gays, equaly gay rights is not good for gays.

    I found infidels nice people, and those who teach it is a blessing to kill them must be confronted head-on, or be deemed cowards and criminals. I don't agree that only Islam can prevail in Arabia and this should be confronted head on. I dont see Arabia being exclusive to Islam - many others predate both Islam and the Arab race in this region. Omissions will get you wherever you want to go.

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  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    No, I'm saying being Arab is not the same as being Muslim. Arab is a culture. Muslim is a person who followed the religion Islam. I can see how the mistake can be made as an Arab Muslim who "believes with all her heart" - is almost always raised to believe with all her heart exactly what she does.

    I don't think you understand my point.l It is an Appeal to Authority to say something is true by appealing to someone in a position in authority.

    I'll give you an example. The Prophet Ron Hubbard (pbuh) said Thetan's are Alien's Souls that interact with your body and made you feel bad because they were nuked by an Alien Overlord named Xenu and are still a little pissy about that. I say he's a kook as there is no good evidence of that being true. His followers say Ron's a Prophet and put little titles like (pbuh) to emphasize "His" Prophetness. Because he was a Prophet, they maintain, what he says must be true. THAT act is Appealing to Authority on their part. Prophet Ron (pbuh) also Appeals to Authority when he says his Propheses are true because he claims to gain his knowledge from Xenu (actually little invisible Aliens no one but Prophet Ron can see because again, there's no good evidence - the argument Prophet Ron was making is also a logical fallacy.

    I'll give you an example. The Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) said he flew up to Heaven on a winged fairy creature and took a look around at seeing a God. I'd say he was a kook but I don't actually believed Mohammad existed. Regardless, there is no good evidence of that being true. His followers (you) say Mohammad was a Prophet and put little titles like (pbuh) to emphasize "His" Prophetness. Because he was a Prophet, you maintain, what he says must be true. THAT act is Appealing to Authority on you part. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) also Appeals to Authority when he says his Propheses are true because he claims to gain his knowledge from Allah (actually little invisible Angels no one but Prophet Mohammad can see) because again, there's no good evidence - the argument Prophet Mohammad was making (if he exited which was probably not the case) is also a logical fallacy.

    Again, Muslims make the argument that the Qur'an is "Perfect" because it came from Mohammad who was a Prophet who heard a God. All of which is one big logical circle jerk.

    What year was the Qur'an made up in again?

    I will agree the Qur'an is a perfect waste of an afternoon. If you want to read fantasy I can suggest something better.

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