The Syrian "Revolution": A Farce from Beginning to End

Discussion in 'World Events' started by ExposingAmericanLies, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah it appears that this guy was posting earlier on. So it's more 'dated' than 'up', I guess.

    I don't expect them to, pessimistically, because I suspect that they kind of went around and swabbed things rather than grabbing a couple dozen of those 140mm casings. I expect civil servants to fuck it up, because inevitably they answer to a higher authority: other civil servants. And they answer to others, and so on. And at each level, new rules and regulations apply, and each acts like a randomly-operated jigsaw, cutting away information and effectiveness. Maybe I'll be surprised. But don't bet on it. They'll miss something.

    For any UN employees scanning ye olde server: my services are available. For a reasonable fee, of course.
     
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Wouldn't chemical tests be more suitable for the purpose than common-sense tests?
     
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  5. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Question regarding the videos above. If your shooting off CW's wouldnt you be wearing gas masks, just in case something goes wrong?
     
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  7. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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  8. Username Registered Senior Member

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    I would actually like to see Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan and other Muslim countries get involve to help solve the problems in that area instead of relying on America for assistance.

    Oh trust me, if America was truly an Imperialist country then you would know it.

    I don't view him as a monster, just being in charge of a completely shitty country that can't resolve its own disputes.

    I would like to know what the two opposing sides are fighting for and what they think it will accomplish.

    What crimes are you talking about?
    Funny how you blame everything on America without focusing on the main reasons for the problems themselves.

    Provide links and what those changes state. Are these changes reasons for the rebel uprising?

    I could care less if other countries don't get to enjoy the same freedoms and privlideges i get to. Assad would be better off if he explained himself at a place like the UN.

    Explain what Assad has done then instead of going on about nothing.
    Okay, type if out then, your fingers aren't broken.
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    Hmmm yes.. You are the eagle..

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    Which one? The analysis where you ignored the content? Or the one that you deliberately misrepresented when you interpreted it for me, thinking I could not read French? Or is it a bit from column A and a bit from column B?


    He didn't think they did it. He says they did it:

    "The BND referred to a phone call they had heard between a Hezbollah official and the Iranian embassy in which he spoke about Assad having ordered the attack," one of the participants told Reuters.

    In the phone call, the Hezbollah official says Assad's order for the attack was a mistake and that he was losing his nerve, the participants reported the BND briefing as saying. Both Iran and Hezbollah support Assad.


    You have any more excuses to make?

    You were the one who started with the insults in this thread GeoffP. Not the other way around.

    You have deliberately misrepresented what a document actually said because you were stupid enough to believe I could not read French. You are the one who has tried to deny what the BND knows, because hey, your analysis of what you have picked up in the media is much better, right?


    Lets see, they intercepted a call where the Hezbollah say he did it because he is losing his nerves. They have proof that he has been using them since April. They have information about how Assad has been testing different types of weapons to allow them to use and disperse chemical weapons.

    The report details the Syrian chemical weapons programme, which it says began in the 1970s with the importing of chemical weapons. It states that Damascus has more than 1,000 tonnes of chemical agents making it "one of the most important operational stocks in the world". It describes Syria's chemical arsenal as "particularly massive and diverse", including Yperite, VX (one of the most toxic chemical agents known) and "several hundred tonnes of sarin".

    "The sarin and the VX … are partly stocked in a binary form, that is to say kept in the form of two chemical products called precursors, that are mixed just before use. This technique and the associated procedures show a great knowledge of the technology of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime."

    The report continues: "Damascus is capable of delivering its chemical weapons with a very large range of several thousand vectors." These, it says, include Scud C, Scud B, M500 missiles, bombs and artillery rockets with a range of up to 500km.

    "Certain missiles can carry up to several hundred litres of toxic agent."

    It adds that intelligence reports suggest the Syrians are looking at new ways of dispersing chemical weapons.

    "Notably, since the beginning of the conflict, our intelligence confirms the regime's use of munitions carrying smaller amounts of chemical agents adapted for tactical use as they are more accurate and localised.

    "We cannot rule out that these trials have also been conducted using other types of chemicals normally meant for civil use and employed at a lethal dose."


    Now show me proof that the rebels have been conducting these types of research on the dispersion of chemical weapons. What we have instead is this:

    The Syrian army is believed to have tested missile systems for poison gas shells at the end of August, statements from various witnesses indicate.

    The tests took place near a chemical weapons research center at Safira east of Aleppo, witnesses told SPIEGEL. A total of five or six empty shells devised for delivering chemical agents were fired by tanks and aircraft, at a site called Diraiham in the desert near the village of Khanasir.

    Iranian officers believed to be members of the Revolutionary Guards were flown in by helicopter for the testing, according to the statements.

    The Safira research center is regarded as Syria's largest testing site for chemical weapons. It is officially referred to as a "scientific research center."


    And the response of the rebels?

    In recent months, the guards have been replaced and reinforced by more than 100 elite troops from the 4th Tank Division. In addition, power generators and large supplies of diesel have recently been brought to the plant to safeguard the supply of electricity in the event of an attack by rebels, reports say.

    But the rebels don't plan to take the site. "We hope American troops will secure the plant," said one former army officer who deserted and joined the Free Syrian Army. "We don't want the regime to be able to use the weapons, but neither do we want them to fall into the hands of radicals after the downfall (of the regime)."
    This is as stupid as when you tried to claim that this is the same and as complex as the situation in Egypt..

    No, the question is whether they used it. And all the evidence points to their having used it. Why is this so hard for you to accept? Why is it to hard for you to believe that the world should respond to the use of CW's in warfare? Why are you so apprehensive about responding to this use of chemical weapons, when all the evidence points to Assad, with the knowledge that if we do nothing now, then we could find ourselves in an age where CW's become a part of conventional warfare?

    Denial and more excuses..


    If they have been funding the rebels, then they are short changing them because the rebels are so greatly outgunned and have very little by way of equipment compared to Assad's troops. They have no air support and no planes or helicopters. Their hospitals don't even have enough medical supplies. As for bribing and contacting members of Congress. Assad's troops aren't that far behind either.

    News just in.. Literally..

    A German news source is saying that Assad may not be personally behind the attacks and that his office has repeatedly denied and rejected calls by his armed forces to use chemical attacks and they suspect he has now lost control of his security forces - curiouser curiouser.. They do believe the regimes forces were behind the attack, however..


    I think an air strike to stop his military planes from taking off wouldn't go astray. However I think the better option is sanctions and preventing him from acquiring more weapons - ie weapons embargo. And have the UN destroy his chemical weapons stock. But hey, keep pushing that line. I have never once said that I want to bomb away and kill civilians and I dare you to prove it. I want you to link exactly where I said we should bomb away and kill civilians. But nice try.


    Ah, when all else fails, you go after my position on this site. Going to start another thread and try to get me removed again? Going to start PM'ing everyone to hassle me into resigning again? After all, that's what you did last time. And then, surprise surprise, you put your name down for my spot before I was asked to return.

    But again, don't focus on what you actually said, lets focus instead on the fact that I am a moderator. Nice diversion tactic. How sad for you that it is not working.


    You have deliberately misrepresented articles in the past and you still do it, to push your side. But hey, lets not focus on that, shall we? Kremmen's link?

    Page 57 for one, where he points out the altimeter and states that they are provided to the Syrians by the Russians.
    Or his comments on page 44, which continues for several pages, which describes how some bombs are easily configured from incendiary bombs to chemical bombs and it describes how Assad's troops have been using incendiary bombs. The rebels do not have attack helicopters. So it was not them. Which leaves Assad's troops at Assad's orders or acting on their own or under orders from others within Assad's close circle.

    I could go on..

    Combined with the evidence that they were testing different methods of dispersion with different missiles, again, it all points to Assad and/or his regime.


    Ah denial of your own earlier posts. Classic GeoffP style. Good to see you are still true to form.

    The report from the BND states otherwise. Or are you going to claim that their skills are as dodgy as your attempt to read French after you misrepresented that French report?


    It just proves how little you know and understand of Assad and the conflict.

    Again, if they are getting that much, then they need to demand why they are so outgunned. Because they are being shortly shortchanged.


    You kept pushing me for a response. The posts speak for themselves at the start of this thread. You look for conflict. This is what you do. When it doesn't go your way, you get personal. You attack people's intelligence and then get offended when it's thrown back in your face. You then misrepresent facts and findings to suit your purpose in the hope no one will notice. Geoff, everyone who has debated you on this site goes through the exact same dance with you.

    Am I innocent? Hell no. I am as bitchy as they come on this site. Do I give back as good as I get? Yes. I never deny that. You on the other hand, deny your actions and words and the way in which you choose to conduct yourself. I knew, the moment I posted that link to that French report, I knew you would misrepresent it, because you did not know I could read French and it was exactly what you did. It was classic GeoffP and expected of you. :shrug:

    Prime example:

    Having read my own links, in French and otherwise, I don't misrepresent them. You on the other hand did and you did it thinking and gloating that I could not read French. Then you tried to claim that I was lying, instead of addressing the fact that you tried to misrepresent that French report. So you are either lying about your own abilities or you were deliberately misrepresenting that report. And you still haven't answered to that yet, have you? No, instead you have chosen to attack my intelligence, claim that I want to kill Syrian civilians and all without proof.

    All links point to his regime at the very least and to him (although the new reports seem to suggest he has lost all control of his regime, which is dangerous and terrifying).

    Right..

    And who stands to gain if he stays in power? Russia, Iran, the Hezbollah..

    You can't deny your own words and argument GeoffP. You cannot deny what you have said and argued on this site.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Heh. Well, the best still would be the one guided by the other.

    .... good point. All other things being equal, I would think so. Would the Syrian army? Would the rebels? Less so the latter than the former.


    Bells, hush.

    The grown-ups are talking now.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Condescending much?

    What a shame you missed what I linked.

    And can't respond to your misrepresentation of facts? Again, true to form.
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    It has happened before in our lifetime and like now, nothing was done.

    The UN did nothing because the UNSC has countries, with close ties and much to lose if sanctions are put in place or if the UN decides to act, having veto power. So you end up with what we have now. A UNSC unable to act or even respond accordingly.

    The evidence points to Assad and/or his regime. Now there are reports from Germany that Assad may very well have lost control of his media and their intelligence have reports of his generals requesting the use of chemical weapons from his office and been denied and they state that it is possible he no longer has full control or that there are others within his inner circle who may be doing it - reports of his brother giving the order, for example. So it is not unlikely that they don't tell him so he can claim to not know. However all the evidence, even with Geoff and I still going at each other's throats, even he admits, that the evidence does suggest it was from the Government, but he needs to have that smoking gun. Is he wrong? No. However there can be no smoking gun because Government forces shelled the areas affected by the chemical weapons strike for days afterwards and they prevented all UN access for 5 days.

    I think if Assad and his forces wanted to make sure to prove it was not them, they would have had that UN inspection team in there immediately. That they refused for days on end speaks volumes.

    Now, perhaps Assad knows that the UN will not act. They haven't before when Saddam gassed thousands of civilians to death, and they won't now. There has been credible evidence to suggest he has been using them in smaller quantities for months and nothing was done of those reports. And frankly, this much time has passed, the UN will not act once again, because of the veto power of Russia and China, who have much to lose if Assad falls.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Mod Hat — Not this time, Geoff

    Mod HatNot this time, Geoff One more time, I guess

    You have a habit of this sort of thing, Geoff. So here's the deal: When you accused two members of Sciforums of felonies against children and refused to support your accusation, for some reason you were not thrown out of here on your ass.

    You do not get away with it this time.

    Support your accusation, or I will throw you out of here permanently.

    You have until 21:15 Pacific Time, September 9, 2013, to provide the evidence of what you have accused and decided to be appalled at.

    Barring that support, you will be permanently expelled from this community.


    Per request of the libeled member, we are lifting both yellow card and ultimatum. However, it must be clear at this time that you will not be allowed such despicable and libelous conduct in the future. You've been at this for years.

    So understand this, Geoff: You're getting one last chance here because, as the character you play here is loathsome enough to have offended diverse members of the staff, it is in our best appearances of fairness to all people to continue to grant you specific privilege and protection not offered to other members. And that extension equals exactly one more chance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  14. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Tiassa
    You could have come in long ago in this thread, and calmed things down, on both sides, but you didn't.
    Now you take one angry comment, and deal with it as though it were an isolated incident.
    This is grossly unfair.
     
  15. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Welcome to Sciforums.

    Seriously, this has gone beyond the pale. Geoff makes a remark about her motives behind wanting war, and suddenly it's libel? Fucking seriously? No, this is ridiculous. Time to put it to an end. Geoff has offended me plenty, but once again Bells (or any moderator, for that matter) is allowed to break all the goddamn rules she wants, only to have them rigidly and absurdly enforced because she (or in this case, Tiassa) suddenly decided some bullshit imaginary line was crossed. I can't believe James lets this sideshow continue.

    You're a moderator, Tiassa. Get over your grudges. Stop acting like a bully. Enough.

    (By the way, I doubt this post will stand. I was told to "shut up while I still could," because, you know, bullies gotta bully to get through their day.
     
  16. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    There is little more destructive to reasonable discussion than putting words in peoples mouths they didn't say.
     
  17. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I'm amazed.

    On reviewing, I find that this insult - mine - is actually the first. Apparently I did insult you first. I can't believe it. Bells, I unreservedly apologize for that. It's not on par with "fuck-knuckle", but there was no reason to call you a twit.

    There was also no reason to misrepresent my comments right off the bat, so now it's your turn.
     
  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    You called Bells a twit? No wonder she has been so angry.

    twit [twit]
    noun Informal.
    an insignificant, silly, or bothersome person: Pay no attention to that obnoxious little twit!
    Origin:
    1920–25; perhaps orig. noun derivative of verb to twit , i.e., “one who twits others,” but altered in sense by association with expressive words with tw- ( twaddle, twat, twerp, etc.) and by rhyme with nitwit

    As for fuck knuckle, that's a form of endearment in Australia.

    fuck-nuckle
    Noun
    fuck-knuckle (plural fuck-knuckles)
    (vulgar, slang, pejorative, Australia, New Zealand) An idiot.

    Example:
    "Throw another shrimp on the barbie me old fuck-knuckle"

    to which you might reply

    "Sorry me old skippy-nackers. I'm too busy wankin' over Putin's nipples"

    wankin' over Putin's nipples
    Phrase
    (vulgar, slang, Australia, New Zealand) Relaxing after a hard days shearing.

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    Putin's nipples. Is your groin throbbing yet?
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    We, The Posters

    Good God, is that really so?? Unfuckingbelievable. Hang in there Balerion. Don't get banned by the maniacs. Shall I guess as to the threatener?

    It's fine, guys. I've contacted SF staff just for their edification - they may find against me further, or side with me, or neither, but the truth is the truth. It's a hugely egregious thing to start falsifying intent, but there it is. If I am struck, how shall I respond? Shall I turn the other cheek or stand my ground?

    For those SF staff seeing this thread now: crisis... averted? Who knows. According to the happy green text above, I am on supra-notice until (if I were to say in a possibly partisan way) the next time I defend myself against absurdity a little too vigorously or give what I get. According to Tiassa I have Bells to thank for not being instabanned; I would be happy to do so, if she will afford me the same for misrepresenting me. No one would honestly think that Bells wants to "bomb Syria flat", but neither should anyone have to put up with the very frequent rerouting of discussions into character assassination or sheer intellectual disjunct to terminate discussion. I can't say which of those two latter is worse.

    So in brief, my time at SF might be coming to an end. Who knows? The standards are undeniably heterogenous. I expect that, in some ways, but not in a place purporting to chart a reasoned and reasonable course to fair discourse, and not diss-course. Pardon the pun.

    For those same staff, and for the posters at large - SF is going, for a reason, much as Balerion has said. It doesn't reach into all the forums, or subforums, or side-forums... but it may, someday. Feel you the tendrils of, shall we say, 'directed' moderation creeping closer? It might be only an open window. Probably.

    We the posters, ought to seek that more perfect union of thought and effect at this site. We need - really, functionally need - a system of thought and redress with checks and balances rather than the concentration of power in injust office. This may sound flowery and sarcastic, but I do mean it. Does SF flower? If so, why? If so, why not? But beyond those pedestrian concerns SF is intended to be a meeting place of minds, not political ideology. I mean, we all have our ideologies - me no less - but that does not justify such prejudice, unless prejudice is meant by it. And, in my case at least, it is not.

    So if indeed I am done, then I bid you all farewell. For my friends: frustration to your foes.

    For my foes... we just talked about you. Weren't you listening?
     
  20. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Ahhhh now I see the "One Man Red Wedding" post above. I see, I see. Thanks again Balerion.
     
  21. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    That picture is a state secret in Mother Russia. So, naturally, it is public access.
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    Mod Note

    Melodrama..

    Here is what happened. He saw something and he felt it was a gross misrepresentation, which when I had asked him to back it up, he refused to respond.. And since we have been down this path before with the poster concerned, he issued the ultimatum. When I realised what was going on, I explained that we were both flinging crap at each other and perhaps a breather might be warranted. To Geoff, I apologise for insinuating that you supported a mass killer because you kept making excuses and trying to pin this on the other side and misrepresented what was posted to you.

    I will say this however, the potential for a conflict of interest when a person being moderated when he/she is debating another moderator is huge. Had Geoff made such accusations against a member that was not me, then he probably would have been booted and I doubt a single moderator would have said boo. I don't absolve myself of responsibility for my behaviour when fighting with Geoff. I never have. And neither should he. You are not innocent Geoff, nor are you a victim and neither am I. And we both have a choice in how to carry on after this. You can gloat because you feel you have won something that you never had in the first place, or you can stop acting like a dick and move on.

    Everything that pertained to this issue, what was sent to you, is all set as a record in the back room.

    If you [or anyone else] has any questions, then please PM a moderator about the issue and they will tell you what they can if you are unsure of what rules were broken here. If you have a complaint about the outcome or whatever about this issue, then please file a complaint with a moderator that is not me. Not that I don't care, well I don't really..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .. all jokes aside, it is because I am involved with this discussion with GeoffP and therefore, I am the last person to ask. As always, I don't moderate him when I argue with him about something. For obvious reasons. If you are still unsatisfied, then you have the Site Feedback sub-forum, where you can air your complaint.

    Lets not disrupt this thread and take it off topic any further.

    Thank you..

    Back to topic..
     
  23. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Who is allowed to insult who now then?
     

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