The Significance of Karma

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by Bowser, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    Child is free from the effects. After all your criminal laws too do not punish a child..

    A child victim is at par with an adult. It is the perp rather than the victim that is targetted by the the criminal laws. Same with law of Karma.
     
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  3. Mystical Sadhu Registered Member

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    Don't let guilt, perhaps false guilt, interfere with your sustainability.

     
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  5. Yellow Jacket Registered Senior Member

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    But according to Karma, what has this child done to deserve, for example, abuse?
     
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    4,447
    there is no indication of karma based on morals. it is just cause and effect.

    one blatant example in nature is that innocence or trust is exploited first as it's easiest to target.

    the moral concept of karma based on moral cause and effect is that of the higher mind and awareness. we create it by natural resistance to that which harms us.
     
  8. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    Nothing. Comcentrate on the perp.
     
  9. Maxi Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not a believer of karma and if i were to interpret your situation i would say that your conscience blames you for taking this job and you'll be looking for something bad to happen and when it does coencidentally you will label it as karma.

    you can't run from yourself
     
  10. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    what happens to the backlog of karma of the recently deceased?
     
  11. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    They will leave some mark on the society. Good ones will leave it better, bad ones leave it worse.

    What will happen if more and more criminals escape unpunished? Society will go to dogs.
     
  12. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    That depends on what they have done in their previous incarnations.
     
  13. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    So the agency for karma is societal backlash?

    So if you do something, and no one knows about it (for better or worse), you don't get any reaction?
     
  14. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721
    One is cause ie Karma, the other is its effect. You don't do anything in a social vaccuum unless you are the lone resident of an isolated island. But even there you might feel some reaction from your environments.

    But societal pressures are which create, uphold and enforce the criminal laws. Every criminal thinks he has gone un-noticed. See how the incidence of shop lifting has gone down by installation of CCTVs. Fear of being seen is a deterrant, no doubt.
     
  15. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    my question was why you relegate the fundamental issue of karma to some sort of societal consequence (since karma certainly plays a wider field thanmere societal consequence ... which is why I posed question marks over the resultant karma of the recently deceased)
     
  16. RobV Registered Member

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    9
    Id you're a believer in Kamma(karma) you must be extremely careful.
    Your past life Kamma is in good standing, as you were born a human.
    It would be wise to not endanger your good standing as most humans do with negative present kamma

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    If I was in your position I would actively look for a different career, but try not to stress it too much. You are not the person stealing life from another being.
     
  17. RobV Registered Member

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    9
    You seem to have a false sense of what Kamma(karma) is.
    Your past life kamma is always in effect.
    The only thing you can change is your present kamma.
    A person born into a royal family has worked for this privilege in previous lifetimes.
    But let's say that the baby born into that royal family grows up a very bad person, disrespectful to monks, a thief, a murderer, his past life Kamma can not protect him from his present Kamma and he could very well be born as that child you speak of, that is abused.

    But lets focus on that abused child, if he spends his life giving alms to the poor and needy, if he is a very good person his present Kamma will reflect this, if he spends his life spreading joy he can expect to live a much better life in his next rebirth.
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    that is a belief that contradicts how nature works though but is useful only in making people consider their actions presently. for instance, someone who has led a promiscuous life would be more at risk to aids virus. but that person could spread that to those who are not promiscuous simply because there are so many other variables in life. meaning the saying that 'what goes around comes around' is true in the general sense but has no bearing on whether someone morally deserves whatever outcome that is. this is because in the "real" world, since everyone affects others, unless the totality of people's actions are changed, innocent and the guilty both pay the price or vice versa. if this belief were actually true in this reality, there wouldn't be bad souls born in good situations and good souls born in bad situations as well as any possible scenarios and there are. outcomes would always be neat and perfectly aligned to an ideal. it is far from that.

    there is no indication that karma works in the way you interpret. if that were true, innocence would never be exploited and that is the first to be in nature. it is the issue of power, not necessarily moral ideals. one does not become weaker from killing prey and eating it, for instance. one can pay for as defined as "karma" through backlash. for instance, in nature all lifeforms usually have some type of defensive or offensive mechanism.

    this is one of the beliefs of buddhism but i don't think it's true, unfortunately. but it is a recognition of what 'should' be fair and a goal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  19. Arachnakid Linguist-In-Training Registered Senior Member

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    If one believes in reincarnation, then there is the possibility of Karma extending across multiple lives. In that case, perhaps the good person who is murdered in this life was in fact a murderer in a past life?

    Also, cause and effect is not limited to one person. We affect each other as well; for example, if the murderer had not chosen to kill the good person, the good person would not have been murdered. Does Karma only affect those parts of the universe that are not under the power of our free will? Is there any part of the universe that we do not affect, and therefore control?

    I also do not personally believe in Karma as it seems unrealistically convienient, but it is an interesting concept to consider.
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    What a preposterous statement! The technology of money is nothing more or less than a record of surplus wealth. Since the technology of agriculture was invented, the Paleolithic Era ended, and the first food surplus came into existence, every human being is capable of producing more than he needs to satsify his basic requirements for food, housing and security. (Assuming he isn't the victim of a despotic government that uses force and intimidation to prevent its subjects from acquiring surplus wealth.) Some choose to produce more, others are happy at a level closer to the minimum.

    In a complex civilization each of us has only the aptitude, training and resources to perform limited types of work, so we each have to produce what we can produce, and trade with others for the things that they produce. We can't satisfy all of our own wants and needs. Nobody can produce everything!

    In many cases we are only part of the production process, and we ourselves do not produce anything tangible, so we have to keep track of how much work we do to contribute to the end product; you may only want to work three days a week and be happy with what that provides for you, whereas I'm happy to work six and am delighted to have a little more comfort, variety, fun and culture in my life. In any case, if I make shoes but need furniture, you make furniture but need wagon wheels, Joe makes wagon wheels but needs beer, Tom makes beer but wants to go to a concert, and Sally plays the guitar but needs shoes, keeping track of these transactions is enormously complicated. Without precise record-keeping, anyone could deliberately or unknowingly end up receiving something that is the result of much more work, or much less work, than he put into the thing he gave out. This is why the concepts of "buying" and "selling" came into existence. This gets even more complicated if Sally needs shoes now because it's winter, and Tom can only make beer in the summer when the herbs he needs are available. In this case the debts and obligations must be remembered for a significant time period. Multiply this by the population of a whole city, and you've got chaos, as well as both unintended and nefarious inequities in production and consumption.

    Money is simply a way of keeping records so that people are fair with one another, since we all have different needs, desires, abilities, and willingness to work. This is why it is always commerce in which the technology of writing is invented, rather than government, religion or literature. Writing always evolves from business records.
     
  21. rcscwc Registered Senior Member

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    721

    I do not relegate Law of Karma. But this law is so natural that it has found expression in our social laws, specially those related to crimes. After all our modern law codes say only one thing: You good deeds may not be rewarded by the State, but ones SHALL be retributed.

    Law of Karma does not gaurantee any rewards.

    Ch 7
    47 Your right is to work only, but never to the fruit thereof. Let not fruit of action be your object, nor your attachment be to inaction.
    48 Arjuna, perform your duties dwelling in Yoga, relinquishing attachment, and indifferent to success and failure; equanimity is called Yoga.
    49 Action (with a selfish motive) is far inferior to this Yoga in the form of equanimity. Do you seek refuge in this evenness of mind, Arjuna; for poor and wretched are those who crave for fruit (of action).

    Various aspects are clarified here. So good deeds must be performed because they are good and it is good to perform them.

    An indifferent deed does not attract the Law. Bad ones DO.

    A deed is performed in three modes.

    1. Manasa. Mentally. A resolve to help others too is a deed. A plot to kill someone too.

    2. Vacha. Verbally. A soothing word to a suffering man does help. A threat to kill draws attention of the Law. It becomes important, if the target is actually gets killed shortly afterwards. In proving the guilt such threats are taken as circumstantial evidence.

    3. Karmana. Physically. Physically killing a person is murder. Combined with two earlier circumstances, it is deliberate, cold blooded murder.

    The Law is the moral expression of physical Causation. In our daily life, we unwittingly adhere to it.
     

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