The Secret [movie]

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by S.A.M., Jul 19, 2009.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  3. Nesm Registered Senior Member

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    I think that the mind can put into action the chain of events which will lead to the acquisition of things.

    If the environment is not conducive, the thought is lost in the stream.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    How would you see something like that working? There are therapists who swear by affirmation, meditation and positive thinking.

    Could we make things happen simply by believing we can?
     
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    You seem to think so.
     
  8. Nesm Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe it occasionally seems too difficult to consciously go about obtaining that which we seek - be it health, social acceptance or material goodies. By believing unequivocally that one can obtain that thing by thought - it leads to actions which result in the acquisition of said thing.

    For things which emerge from the self, like happiness, or even health, maybe affirmations work like thus:
    Maybe we are continuously dreaming during our waking state, and the intrusive / random thoughts experienced during meditation are spillages from the dream over into consciousness. A person is effectively an entity in two different realms for most of the day. When one believes or uses affirmations for getting a self generatable(?) thing - maybe that impacts the dream entity and causes it to change its 'environment'.

    As the dream self is engaged in an internally generated reality - its environment is more malleable, its wishes more obtainable. And so the affirmations spill over and the dream self changes its world.

    Maybe from there its just a case of the self creating balance, harmony in the system. The dreamself is content and happy in having created, deems it to be good for the whole system, and so puts into action sub-conscious routines which we, as our physical selves, carry out subtly. And thus we obtain a thing by thought.

    Or maybe not huh?
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm going to test the theory.
     
  10. Nesm Registered Senior Member

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    But if it doesn't work will you not say to yourself that maybe you didn't believe convincingly enough?

    You should try to get someone living in a nice war-torn, impoverished land to try it along with you - see if they can manifest their needs by utilizing warm, head-swarming thoughts.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'm a believer.

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    I'm a believer

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  12. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    First of all those 'secrets' are not secret at all but touted from Richard Bach to Oprah and everyone who dabbles in new age ideologies. I thought it was trite as a film. No I don't believe that the mind can convert thought into things.

    The affirmation is used by some therapist but the aim its not to turn 'thoughts into things', they are techniques in relaxation. Therapy is about changing behaviour right so cognitive manipulation is useful but any therapist who says that believing something will literally change some material reality would probably have their license revoked. If I want to change profession or my marriage taking action may change those things by going back to school or learning new interpersonal communication skills but thought itself won't help much. Your thoughts can better prepare you for taking a certain action but neither thought nor action can ; one can certainly better prepare themselves by not thinking in patterns that interfere with these actions but its not a guarantee of outcome. If you believe something wholeheartedly but do not know what actions to take, take wrong actions or the outcome isn't dependent on your thought or action then the whole theory falls apart.

    Also these are techniques for 'garden variety' problems and do not work well with people who suffer from clinical illnesses that need medication for example.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So you don't believe in the placebo effect?
     
  14. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Sure there is a placebo effect but this does not work with everything does it. A placebo is not going to stop the mania in a manic-depressive and its not going to cure you from stage four bone cancer.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know this? Has there never been a remission in a manic depressive or a stage four cancer patient using this technique?
     
  16. Nesm Registered Senior Member

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    Placebos typically require two parties to be involved. One the convincer (the doctor promising a wonder cure to cancer) and a convincee - the willing-to-believe / desperate patient.

    This situation means less onus on the patient to self-generate the belief that they can heal themselves.

    To create health by thought (The Secret) - is to become both the convincer and convincee. Again I say that when it doesn't work - will you not conclude that you didn't believe sincerely enough?
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What cures the patient in a placebo effect?
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Well people generally do not go into remission by stage four no and going into mania itself is not dependent on 'thinking' either positive or negative so cognitive therapy isn't really a part of the techniques used for such patients; 'take your lithium' seems to be the most successful way of controlling mania (some newer drugs too)
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So the technique is a proven failure?
     
  20. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Results in breast cancer:

    "The new conclusions, published in the Lancet and the British Medical Journal suggest that psychological factors have no significant bearing on the disease.

    The only exception was that women who felt that the situation was "hopeless" generally fared worse than others."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/475128.stm
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm so there was no significant bearing except for faring worse if you thought it was hopeless.
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Its impossible to use a technique like this in a manic-depressive Sam. Mania is racing thoughts, grandiosity and hallucination. Most of manics are not even aware that they are becoming manic and feel good during the process. They already know that clinical depressions are not curtailed by positive thinking.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe that's what Sam's trying to cure.

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