The Scientific Proof That God Exists!!

Jan,

Yes that makes sense from your perspective. You have demonstrated elsewhere that your indoctrination into the fantasy world of the supernatural is largely complete.

And the point is what? That a god doesn’t exist and that trying to prove that one does is a waste of time?

That’s somewhat extreme. You appear to have a serious persecution complex. And who are they? Do you mean everyone who chooses to disagree with your limited extreme views? Is this alleged agenda documented anywhere? Or is this another fantasy?

But I will admit that I see no value in religion and they do tend to be harmful to the human race, so the end of religions would be beneficial overall. As for religionists: Their enlightenment should come if we can vastly improve the impoverished education systems in the world and begin teaching people how to think clearly. Ignorance generates superstitions which give rise to religions.

Introduce truth and knowledge and religions will vanish.

By ”any which way”, what are you implying? That violence might be used? Can you support that fantasy?

Have fun
Cris

 

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GOD is GOD Supreme!

Look at the world around you Cris! Look at yourself! Made in the image of God your Creator! You are simply not an accident of nature, but a being, that was formed to the Glory of GOD, and mankind was made fully formed! GOD is a 'Spirit'! And can only be worshiped in spirit and of truth! The Supreme Being is FAR ABOVE NATURE AS WE KNOW IT! And He, GOD the Father is the most misterious of all BEINGs! You can only find out who He is really, by comming to Je'sus the Son of GOD who is GOD! Je'sus was fully man, and fully GOD, he is in the Heavens with GOD and will come again for His people! To see GOD, the only way is to look to Je'sus, He is the image of the invisible GOD the Father! Their one in the same God!

But alass, ye are 'dead' in your trespasses and sins! Je'sus is the only way to GOD!

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Re: GOD is GOD Supreme!

Sir. Loone,

In the same spirit as your post –

God is a figment of your imagination.

Your grandiose claims are matched only by the stupendous depth of your irrationality.

History shows there were some wise sages 2000 years ago and who attempted to teach compassion and understanding. If one were named Jesus then I am sure that if he were alive now he would be furious at how a simple message could be so corrupted and made into the idiotic religion and ludicrous regime known as Christianity and how such total drivel has led to so many wars and hatred.

You are barely discernable from the other primates, with just a tiny difference in DNA that marginally increased your intelligence to enable a minimum level of self-awareness. You are a product of a long evolutionary process that started with very tiny single cell organisms just barely recognizable as life.

With enormous struggle and hard work rational scientists have made life more comfortable for you and have enabled a technology that will allow mankind to take control of his evolutionary future.

Gods almost certainly cannot and do not exist and there is absolutely no need for any of them to exist especially your fantasy who if existed would be clearly cruel, evil, demented and egotistical.

The Supreme Being is a fiction created by shamans and con-men to enable political and monetary power for themselves, and whose wealth was realized and made possible by the ignorant and gullible people just like you.

But alas, your mind is so totally indoctrinated by the feces of religious bigotry and superstition that you are no longer able to recognize the basic truths of reality. Your imaginary world of the supernatural is where your mind is likely to languish until it vanishes into oblivion when you die, never to be seen and never to be heard of again for all eternity.

So dream on my strange friend, and please please stop preaching your prattle to me.

Cris

 

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TruthSeeker,

Love and compassion and all that is very good, especially when outside of any doctrine but rather grounded in individuality and reason.

However, what would either love or compassion have to do with that moronic perversion of an ignorance of quantum physics that you have been wielding around this forum with the goal of "scientifically proving" (as the title of the thread states, after all) your "God"? Take another look at the thread's title, and have another shot at convincing me that your drivel is not, in fact, religious propaganda.

You may hope to fool the noncognoscenti, but anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of quantum science doesn't have any problem seeing your snake oil for what it is.

 

Jan,

I've got a couple of questions that perhaps you could find answers to.

When looking at the various localities of the world, is there any correlation at all between the average degree of education and the percentage of atheists within the population?

What has been the historical trend in atheism as percentage of population over the last few centuries?

 

Answer to Bambi

Bambi,

It's a scientific evidence of God. It is not Religious propaganda. Everything I did is to give you the Religious conception of God and compare it with the Science we have nowdays. I'm not promoving ANY Religion here, as you can see...

P.S.: Sorry about your mother, "Bambi"...

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Did you watch the film?

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Blessings,
Nelson

 

Originally posted by Jan Ardena

Then how do you account for the fact that religion is being taught all over the world? How do you explain that children born to Christian families grow up Christians, Buddhist children end up Buddhist, etc?

Religion is a cultural construct. I do not see any reason for any kind of certainty that any cultural construct is eternal.

I suggest greater clarity in our definition of atheism. If you define atheism as religion, then there is hardly any duality. On the other hand, if you define atheism as absense of religion then you get duality -- i.e. presence vs. absense. And in that case there is no scale between religion and atheism other then a scale of how religious a person is. A true atheist is 0% religious.

Well, presense is quite distinct from and opposite to absense. At least in my mind.

Nice evasion, but I think you will find that even in the most religious countries the percentage of atheists in the population rises with the average level of secular (scientific) education.

How many people in the whole world declared that no gods exist 1000 years ago? 500 years ago? 200 years ago? 100 years ago? 50 years ago? 10 years ago? Now?

I think a quite clear trend exists to support the argument that religion will vanish over time.

 

Re: Answer to Bambi

TruthSeeker,

Oh, thanks. You've really convinced me now. LOL

One of your problems is, "the Science we have nowdays" does not pretend that quantum objects are telepathic.

I'm sorry, I thought I saw the word "God" somewhere amongs all of your posts. My bad, I must've been dreaming. I'm sure all the polytheistic believers will rest easier now.

 

Cris,

I fail to see that 95% of the people of the world are undergoing somekind of mass delusion of some kind,and since the figment of imagination GOD is an imaginatio i fail to see what was the need for hard wiring such an imagination inside our neural circuit boards without any cause.
and since it is in our imagination,i think it must exist in some world.

Randommness? hahahahahahahahahahahahaa...

tell me this.what was the need of Halucinogens being hard wired inside the human brainwhich increase and are used only at the time of death.i fail to get your point.
Randomness...???

And what exactly is the need for us to survive?
why are we here?
what the hell are we doing here?
why do we die?
what is life,whats its purpose?
why is the Universe going on for such a long time.?
why?...ha!
talk about randomness...


bye!

 

PS: Cris its no point wasting time here explaining urself out or is it?
dont you think we believe what we want to believe,you cant change that.i cant change what that 5% of people think,can i?
And i think its been a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time i have seen you in intelligence and machines,dont say you dont have time...because you hang around here quite often...

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bye!

 

Answer to Bambi...

Bambi,

I never talked about telepathy here. Talking about that... take a look in the thread: Telepathy ...
I wasn't talking about telepathy. I was talking about Quantum Physics and Energy.

And what you call telepathy you meant telekinesis... there is a big difference between them...

If you pay attention, I never said anything about any Religion here (specifically). I never said: Be a Christian! , for example. I am just talking about the scientific evidence that there is a Greater Conscience in the Universe...

Blessings,
Nelson

 

Hi zion,

Trying to make me feel guilty about not properly supporting the Intelligence forum huh? And you’re right, I keep letting myself become distracted by philosophy. I’ll see what I can do.

In the meantime you’ve thrown a number of random thoughts into your post here but I’ll give you a response that I think should be appropriate.

Where did the 95% number come from, it isn’t in this thread? Nevermind it fits a fact about human nature that seems worth inserting her.

Around the early 70s I had the opportunity to learn high-pressure salesmanship, i.e. the science of the hard sell. You’ve probably been a victim at some time in your life, or you will be. The underlying basis is to understand the vulnerabilities of human nature and then launch an all out attack on those weaknesses. The technique is terrifyingly effective.

The very first lesson is to realize that most people do not think for themselves. They most often take their information from others and ask friends and family for advice. Now if friends and family have the same quality of information then really the overwhelming effect is that people act like sheep, they follow where they are led.

You may have seen these Life Assurance Company statistics quoted before or variations thereof; they are quite common. Taking 100 people at age 21, what happens to them by the age of 65 –

1 Will be truly wealthy and free.
4 Will have achieved financial independence.
5 Will be dead.
90 Will be destitute or dependent on the vagaries of the prevailing economy for their survival.

The conclusion is that those who make an effort to make their own decisions and achieve true personal freedom only number 5%, the remaining 95% are failures.

The typical rebuttal to accepting you are a failure is to claim that money and wealth aren’t true indicators of success, and that one can be happy without money. Unfortunately that is another delusion, a mechanism used to overcome depression rather than face reality. All the time you HAVE to go to work to earn money to survive means you are not free to do as you wish, you are a wage slave at the mercy of the successful few, the real people who control the world and your destiny. Consider how many people who when given a large some of money, or win the lotto etc, choose to give it away because they don’t need it. You get the point I hope.

Imagination is a product of intelligent thought. It enables creativity, speculation, and curiosity. It is what drives human progress. But imagination has no boundaries; it will allow humans to consider anything and everything whether those areas are rational or irrational.

Without imagination it is unlikely we would have emerged from the caves. It is a vital evolved component that has made us who we are.

But imagination is useless unless it can be converted into practical usage. Imagination in science gives scientists those breakthrough ideas that move the human race forward. Scientists convert their imaginative ideas into experiments to test if those ideas are practical. If not then, hey ‘it seemed like a great idea’. This is the scientific method at work, selection and dismissal of imaginative ideas depending on their practicality.

On the other hand religion also uses imagination but doesn’t impose any controlling influence like the scientific method in science. Religious imagination is uncontrolled and thus is able to follow any idea whether practical or not. Without any controls religion has no way to dismiss potential ideas as possible or impossible. The decision as to what ideas to choose is left to the most error prone and unreliable of human characteristics, emotion. And here we see that if something ‘feels’ right then that is the dominant choice.

And that brings us back to the 95% of failures and why so many people choose to follow a religion. Religion makes them feel comfortable, and they like that feeling. Coupled with an overwhelming desire not to make decisions or to question what they are told, then it becomes clear why religion beliefs are so widespread.

There isn’t any. Please feel free to die whenever you wish, you’re probably another failure, right? But personally I kinda like the idea of sticking around for a long time, that makes me feel good.

Well everybody gotta be somewhere. (Sorry – a quote from Spike Milligan). You are the result of an evolutionary process.

Personally I’m doing everything I can to not die before I choose, and I have no plans to choose for the foreseeable future. But I have no idea what you are doing, and unless you’re helping me or getting in my way, then I don’t much care. Do as you wish and harm none in the process.

Because we haven’t figured out how to prevent it yet. You mean you haven’t noticed yet? But we used to die pretty young, like in our twenties, but, boy, we are making good progress at fixing that irritating problem.

Life is the result of that evolutionary process again, you need to pay more attention. Can’t say I’ve seen any purpose to life and I don’t see that there needs to be one. Of course if you have a hang up on that then you have my sympathies, but my personal purpose is to enjoy myself the best I can. Try it sometime, it can be pretty good.

What? You tired of it already? Get yourself a hobby, it’ll take your mind of your worries. But as long as it doesn’t end anytime soon then I’m not too worried about how long it’s been around. And I do like Alan Guth’s theory that shows the universe is probably infinite.

History is full of people changing their minds, but, I wouldn’t expect anyone to change their mind overnight on something I might say here, however, it might give them pause for thought and to generate doubt. But most people never like to admit they are wrong, especially if their opponent has shown hostility, something I do my best to avoid. But I explain myself here because it helps me clarify my own thoughts and ideas, i.e. I post here because it helps me. And if anyone can point out where I might be wrong then that has real value.

I’m not a scientist but I desperately need science to solve a number of urgent problems. I believe my best approach is to help facilitate those activities. Religion has been and remains a serious thorn in the side of science, although this has changed massively over these past two centuries. Christianity is becoming increasingly fragmented and the western world has now become far more aware of the barbarism of Islam. As the rapidly increasing benefits of science and technology become infused around the world we should see an increase in communication, understanding, and knowledge about our universe. History shows that as knowledge increases, the power of religions decline. Transferring that knowledge to ordinary people is the role of education and at present the quality of that discipline is not so good, at least in the USA. But I’m hopeful that things will improve soon.

Enough for now.
Cris

 

Originally posted by Jan Ardena

Great! Then you and I are in agreement that religion should not be taught to anyone at all (aside from its sociological and historical effects.)

You didn't answer the question. If religion is not learned, then what is this "association" you mentioned? Also, keep in mind that someone who doesn't even know of the concept of God would of course not call out to such an entity.

But you and the world's population are not idempotent. I'm asking you to take a look at the global trends.

And you call yourself unbiased. Is that according to scripture too?

You must be completely unaware that the total number of religions in the world utterly dwarfs the total number of monotheistic religions. Atheists are not the only ones denying God. Thus falls apart your argument about ateism's dependence on monotheistic religions (because atheism is equally juxtapposed to polytheistic religions as well.)

Atheism is not just a denial of your particular religious doctrine, but it is the denial of all past, present, and future religious doctrines. You are correct that the difference between atheism and religion is akin to the difference between darkness and light: atheism is the lack of religion. It is also the natural state of mind because all humans are born atheist. Thus atheism is the fundamental position, while religions are superficial and spurious.

I notice your careful use of the word "abundance". Of course, since you won't find even 1 country in the world where there are no atheists at all. So of course the next question is, what percentage of atheists in the population form an "abundance", and on what rational basis do you draw such a line?

I suspect that by "real religion" you mean true belief in addition to keeping up the rituals. Again, you will not find even 1 country in the world today where there are no people at all who consider themselves true believers.

Not exactly the grounds I would like anyone to agree with me on. However, even so how do you then explain the following that you said to Cris:

 

Re: Answer to Bambi...

Originally posted by TruthSeeker

There is absolutely no difference between them. Both are dependent on a magical transfer of information between the brain and some external object, thereby changing the state of that external object.

And, since you like the term "telekinesis" better, then let me restate the fact that modern science does not pretend that quantum objects are telekinetic.

First of all, be very certain that I always pay attention. I never spout off without having thought through what I'm saying.

Your insistence "That God Exists" (from the thread's title) is an indirect way of saying, "Be a Christian/Jew/Muslim".

Yes, even while there's no such evidence at all. Which is another reason why your posts are simply religious propaganda.

 

Bambi...

Great! Then you and I are in agreement that religion should not be taught to anyone at all (aside from its sociological and historical effects.)

It is not religion that is taught, it is the re-awakening to ones real identity which is taught. Once you become self-realised you are then in a position to understand what religion is, until then you are just speculating, rumaging around in the dark.
What you will never understand, so long as you are in ignorance, is that religion is natural for the soul, in the same way air is natural for the body.


Also, keep in mind that someone who doesn't even know of the concept of God would of course not call out to such an entity.

There is not one human being on this planet that does not have some concept of God, that is part of being a human being, even the demoniac.


But you and the world's population are not idempotent.

Idempotent?

And you call yourself unbiased. Is that according to scripture too?

I don’t recall calling myself anything.
Becoming unbiased, is becoming unconditioned, untying the knots that held you to that particular understanding. You will know when it is working because you will have less stress, and be able to reason more objectively, but it doesn’t mean that you do not form oppinions. Its just that your conclusions, would have come about through superior understanding.


You must be completely unaware that the total number of religions in the world utterly dwarfs the total number of monotheistic religions.

In this world there are what you term ‘the total number of religions’ but in truth there can be only one religion.
Let us use the example of light.
In this world, the source of all light is the sun. We cannot look directly into the sun without serious damage to our eyes.
When it becomes dark at night, we turn on the light.
This light is made possible by the sun.
But we can look directly into this light without fear of damage. The point is that light is light, whether the sun or 60w bulb.
Sanatana Dharma is direct religion, directly from the source of religion, it is the perfection of religion, it means the eternal occupation of the soul.
Most humans, especially in this time, cannot adhere directly to it, so it is distributed by various teachers at various times, according to the peoples particular consciousness level, thereby creating a step by step guide, to get to the point of Sanatan Dharma.
Man, gives different names to these different steps, and over time, through ignorance, forgets the point of these different steps, until you get to the point of ‘atheism.’

Atheists are not the only ones denying God. Thus falls apart your argument about ateism's dependence on monotheistic religions (because atheism is equally juxtapposed to polytheistic religions as well.)

Atheism is a ‘word’ which describes a person who denies the existence of God, and that’s it.
It seems to me you and others try and give more importance to this word.

Atheism is not just a denial of your particular religious doctrine, but it is the denial of all past, present, and future religious doctrines.

Who said it was a denial of a particular religion, not me, that’s for sure.

See!
Even you, can understand that God is eternal.
Your learning my boy.


You are correct that the difference between atheism and religion is akin to the difference between darkness and light: atheism is the lack of religion.

Cheeky Cheekey!!
Atheism is the darkness, and well you know. Even though you deny.

It is also the natural state of mind because all humans are born atheist. Thus atheism is the fundamental position, while religions are superficial and spurious.

Prove it!

I notice your careful use of the word "abundance". Of course, since you won't find even 1 country in the world where there are no atheists at all. So of course the next question is, what percentage of atheists in the population form an "abundance", and on what rational basis do you draw such a line?

You won’t really know whether you are a true atheist or religionist until you are properly tested.
A lot of people claim to be atheist because they are rebelious, in the same way unruly children say they hate their parents, because everything is just fine and dandy at that point in their lives. The truth is, they are spoilt, and don’t really know what is in their best interest. But like unruly children, they may suddenly come to their senses because of a sudden brush with reality. If not, then they are atheist/demoniac and will have account for their transgression.

I suspect that by "real religion" you mean true belief in addition to keeping up the rituals.

No!

Again, you will not find even 1 country in the world today where there are no people at all who consider themselves true believers.

You can consider what you like, how you act is what you are worth and what you are.

However, even so how do you then explain the following that you said to Cris:

He doesn’t realise that Sanatana Dharma is truth and knowledge and everything else is an illusion.

If there are two cows eating in a field, the farmer comes and shoots one dead for the purposes of slaughter, the live cow may flinch and react for a moment, but shortly after will resume eating, blissfully unaware that she is next.

That is the position of an ignorant person.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

Re: Bambi...

Originally posted by Jan Ardena

Oh I see. The re-awakening has nothing to do with religion. Sheesh, what was I thinking... :bugeye:

So unless you believe in reincarnation, you're just speculating and rumaging around in the dark. That's not religion either. My goodness, I had it all wrong!

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IOW, you are in ignorance as long as you don't believe that religion is natural for the soul. Wow, that's deep stuff. Doesn't smell too good, but it's sure deep.

Which of course means that you have either never met such a human being or conveniently ignored them upon meeting them. Either that or you have personal insight into the mind of every human being on this planet (oh mighty Jan Ardena, I am in awe of your powers.

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)

Well, I suppose you've never heard of Buddhists. Strange, since they are very common throughout Asia. And you also seem to be under an impression that there is not a single atheist on this planet.

There is also one thing you need to understand (even if you aren't able to.) For an atheist to call out to any god is something like calling out to Barney the Purple Dinosaur. It's just that ridiculous to call out to an imaginary entity.

I'm sorry for my presumption. You are biased, and I should have never assumed otherwise. I apologize.

Huh? You'll hear the same exact thing from anyone, including atheists. And everybody claims they are the ones who have it right. In the light of which it ain't much of an argument for anything.

Yours. Of course, what was I thinking...

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You know, you are the perfect representiation of a typical religionist. Stereotypical even.

Well, I'm so glad to finally hear The Truth. Oh wait, I've already heard it from the Christians on this board, and it sounded different. But of course, you do not see yourself as anything like them; you are above and beyond, you are special. Just keep telling yourself that, it might help with your self-esteem, oh enlightened one.

On the other hand, you probably wouldn't like the historical facts on this issue. The earliest religions were animistic, from which shamanistic religions arose. Polytheistic religions are newer still, and monotheistic religions are their latest outgrowth. Yours seems to be monotheistic and possibly bordering on pantheism (I'm not that familiar with it, so I'm not very sure about where it fits in the grand scheme of things.) But the point is you aren't espousing some ancient belief; what you are preaching is quite new historically speaking.

Yeah, and Sanatana Dharma is two words which describe a person who preaches a particular brand of The Truth. It seems to me you and others try and give more importance to these two words.

Of course, it might have never occured to you that you are talking with an atheist (though how you managed to miss that, I cannot possibly imagine.) So when I'm telling you what atheism means you ought to pay more attention since you aren't talking with a word but with a human being who is explaining their state of mind to you.

I'll ignore the condescending "my boy" and assume it's just a sign of irritation on the part of the enlightened one. Either that, or it's his way of achieving complete stress relief.

Now, of course I have my doubts that you could ever understand what I understand (there is no God.) What we are discussing here are beliefs held by people and passed from one generation to the next -- IOW, cultural constructs.

Deny? Atheism is lack of belief in any god. That's the literal translation of the word; that's where its Latin origins are.

As for darkness, it's only a metaphor. You're so eager to blow it up into something it is not, and I understand, I really do. So you can invest your energy into something more meaningful, because I get it.

But tell me, how would you know what atheism is or is not, if you have no memory of it? If you have never experienced it as a rational adult?

Look a newborn in the eye, and ask: "what is the origin of the universe?" You'll see a perfect reflection of your own ignorance in those innocent baby eyes.

My turn to tell you that you don't truly understand atheism. You are assuming way too much about people based on nothing but their statement that they reject all religion.

Ooo, this almost sounds like a threat. So tell me, does your religion condemn the unbelievers for their infidelity? Come on, surprise me, tell me it ain't so.

Hehhheheheeheeeeee. Ahhhahahahaa. Oh boy, you're killing me here!

So tell me, o wise one, how did you happen to arrive at such knowledge, and how is it that you are so certain about the truth of that knowledge? Have you ever even considered the nature and origins of knowledge? Ever delved into epistemology?

Indeed. Worse yet, the surviving cow will proceed to teach the same bliss to its calves. Matter of fact, it will convince them that it is still alive only because it knows the true path in life (and the dead cow was wrong.) Ah, the religionist cattle -- how you do crie out for a shepherd.

 

Precisely, Jan. You may very well term “religion” as something others do not. The fact that you do does not make your definition more correct or more acceptable.

You can claim to have such certainty of what every single person would do in such circumstances, but for you to suggest this is to reveal that you are far less knowledgeable about human beings than you would like us all to believe. Six billion people on this planet and you are sure you know how every one of them will behave..what they will think... what they will feel... Amazing.

Perhaps a period of exploration of religion(s) is natural for the human being. Perhaps. Beyond that, these are your opinions, assertions, assumptions based on...what? On what has been taught to you? Taught to you by whom? Discovered by you only? How do you know you or your teachers are right? How do you know that the knowledge you’ve accrued from your own experiences has been properly evaluated and applied in your life?

How is it that what is right for you is necessarily right for everyone else?

Actually, it’s quite possible that there are a large number of people who have no concept of what you (or anyone) calls “God.” Look at a person who is severely mentally handicapped. Do you actually know what that person knows? What they understand? How they even form concepts in their mind? I don’t think you know more about them than what any of them can communicate about themselves, or any more than science can hopefully reveal about them. Science is very cautious about claiming to have a thorough understanding of what goes on in the hearts and minds of the mentally ill, and appropriately so.

And this is what all religions will claim in one way or another: That until those who don’t agree with you do agree with you, then they don’t “understand” and they lack “superior understanding.” Sorry, it just ain’t gonna fly. Claim it all day long, but that doesn’t make it true for anyone other than you.

Interpretations, assertions, assumptions.... opinions.

Never going to be enough for any truly rational person.

It seems to me that you lack the ability to comprehend anything about atheism beyond this basic definition, and that the “knowledge” you supply to make up for this lack is prejudiced against understanding anything that does not fit with your version of truth, light, or understanding itself. Such close-mindedness... in one so wise...

Self-deception is the evil, and well you know. Even though you deny.

Proper? By whose standards? The teachers of Jan Ardena? The God of Jan Ardena? Or are these Jan Ardena’s standards alone?

Actually, I can agree with this. There are a lot of people who are like this.

But not all.

You are aware of ALL that Cris realizes? (You are simply astounding.)

Regardless of whether or not you intend to insult anyone here by making all the assumptions you do, an insult is in the mind or eye of the insulted. We can’t control how everything we say or do will be perceived, but being aware of how this works, and taking an appropriate amount of responsibility for what comes off the tip of your typing fingers, are true marks of wisdom, understanding and maturity. Deny it if you want, but there is plenty of evidence to support this.

Nonsense. That is what a cow might be thinking; that is the position of a cow as you or others might interpret its position.

Human beings are not cows.