The Religion subforum.

Originally stated:

How so? For example in a murder trial, how can someone be at the scene of the crime, and not be there at the same time? Or how can they fulfill two independent alibis at the same time?

There can be many alibis, but only one truth.

 

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the very nature of religious discussion has to presume that all religions or spiritual systems start on equal footing, otherwise the discussion is a conversion attempt.

it is that simple.

 

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You can presume that none of them are true, and that would put them on equal footing. I don't think that is what you meant, or maybe it is.

Logically speaking the bible and the koran can not both be true regarding Jesus. One or both of them is lieing. That is a matter of both faith and logic (without faith).

We can compare what the bible says about Jesus and what the koran says about Jesus. This is done all the time with comparative religion. Obviously when the Bible says Jesus was crucified, and the Koran says he lived and he was not crucified, logic tells us that at least one of them was wrong. They could both be wrong if Jesus did not exist to start with. QED.

A Muslim, a Christian, and a Jesus Myther would have three different beliefs about it, and would be a matter of faith (or lack thereof) from each of the individuals. Logically speaking only one can be right, but it is not my job to impose my beliefs on you or vice versa. It would be ok for me to say I believe Jesus is the Christ, but it would be wrong for me to say my belief is better than yours, or "my God is bigger than your God," which the rules clearly say we are not supposed to do. Atheists are guilty of saying the God I believe in is no God at all -- but they don't speak for me, so their claims clearly break the rules. They can speak for their own beliefs but not for mine.

 

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well, there you go.
presume neither are true, without outside verification...and base your discussion on that.

you will find spiritual conversations to be much more fulfilling if you see things like that.

 

Not sure what you mean.

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I'm not sure this is going anywhere.

It doesn't matter what I say about the religion forum anyway. It should be more appropriately called the religion-bashing forum, or perhaps the forum for the spiritually challenged. In either case, no place for me.

 

this might as well have been typed from my keyboard, i agree so strongly.

 

Religious thought is just plain demonstrably wrong in so many ways that are obvious to any rational person that there needs to be a forum for dissecting such a widespread delusional prediliction in every detail. There may indeed be a genetic component to it that evolved over millenia. We need to understand why and how a religious mania occurrs in humans simply because it may help us understand the general widespread phenomena of irrationality in other areas such as politics.

The idea of god is a culturally transmitted authoritarian/fear based control mechanism that people just seem to accept and ascribe ultimate truth to, even though there are a thousand competing varieties each with no more validity than the other. This is de facto the only thing anyone needs to observe in order to easily see the irrational nature of religious belief and faith.

That's just the way it is and there's nothing deeper or more complicated about it.

 

why is it wrong?
if there is indeed a genetic predisposition towards religious thought how can it be wrong?
is the platypus wrong? you can say it is a genetic freak but you can't say it's wrong.

 

Whoa. That wasn't a useful post at all. I love it when an individual frustrated with a subject resorts to blandly stating his opinion as undeniable fact.

 

In the absense of data I would agree with you, but my bible is a real object. How about I hit you over the head with it, so we can see who is imagining things? If you are right, then you won't feel a thing.

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Don't forget "gay science."

Yet they choose to go to church and hear it.

For someone spiritually challenged, you speak well for your likeminded brothers.

 

You are right. It's not "wrong" per se, but it is debilitating to our species advancement, just as our genetic predisposition to violence is.

 

you know going back to the original post, it is quite bizarre to note that on a sci board THE MOST POPULAR forum is the Religion forum with the highest number of viewings by far.

Religion (29 Viewing) 171,950

 

It's far more bizarre that theists and woo woo's hang out at a science forum.

 

*************
M*W: I asked this very question when I was over at the refugee camp, "Why do christians infiltrate scientific forums?" As far as I can tell, it has the most hits compared to any other question posted on the that religion forum. Since you brought this up, I will go ahead and make a new thread in sciforum's religion forum. It's been a question that I've brought up many times, and I believe you're right in your response.

 

true, but that in no way proves that what's inside is the word of god.

 

are you saying theists and woo woo's should have no interest in science?

Science evolved greatly thanks to theists, many scientists are theists, thus you are (as usual) you and your gfriend Mad woman talking crap.

Do pop along to her thread and defend the fact that theists have no place in a science forum.

 

i disagree.
the person that discovered that the earth revolved around the sun (copernicus i think) did not publish his results for two years because the church wanted him dead. if the church had it's way the results would never have been published at all.

 

maybe you should look at the theist contributions to science in med womans thread

 

Nobody can prove that it isn't the word of God either, however it is real data.

 

I think that all theists, somewhere deep down, know that it's just us on this lonely little planet, just doing our best for the short time we have. I mean, really, all the theists here have already admitted that their feelings about god are just a form of hope that there's "more" to it all, and that they have no real reason to think that way other than this hope. After all this time of humanities existence on earth, we all really know what we have to work with, and it dosen't include gods or mystical beings. Pretty obvious really.