I have thought it this way- the possiblity of both exists- but you are continously posting it as if you found the answer.... :bugeye: Peace be unto you Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
No, you can not use physical and scientific jargon to prove your superhero who only exist in your and your kind (God believer)'s dream world. I omit the ones who talk about fairy tales. No, science doesn't play this game. You Qur'an doesn't provide anything other than what ancient observers already found out through their observations. These are written, known things, your Qur'an just made plagiarism, Qur'an brought nothing new to humanity. This is the main difference. I don't have to believe in things that I don't know. But obviously you do. And don't try to steal the achievements of human minds -and only human minds- in order to prove your imaginary character. Of course, we call this process as "evolution of human thought". We started on trees and in caves as bunch of apes. We didn't fall from heavens. We evolved from animals, and biologically we are still animals. Everything has a prior history. What I am saying is, God is nowhere in this equation, or outside of this equation. Because it does not exist. It is an imagination. No, "using ancient's knowledge as a word of God and tell people that this is his words" is plagiarism. Your mind boggles because it is God infested. Muslims were advanced not because they were reading and extracting knowledge from Qur'an. They were advanced because they translated ancients' knowledge, observed physical things and applied their knowledge on physical things. Not because they were muslims, because they were human beings. Qur'an has nothing to do with Algebra. Science came to similar conclusion with a piece of knowledge which was known thousands of years before Qur'an. If Qur'an didn't accept that already well established knowledge, it would have been difficult to expect some people to believe it. Many of other Qur'anic verses were falsified many times, but that didn't make any effect on some muslim populations. Due to fear, ignorance, comfort, or for any other reason. Science doesn't deal with mumbo jumbo. It deals with physically existing things. It means everything has physical background. So Big Bang should also have a physical background, history, reason or cause. Not the imaginary God(s) of Agricultural era. No way, in your dream. I only dislike the word "creation" for political, logical, and philosophical reasons. I have no problem with human mind. I have problems with false religions such as the one you promote and try to poison fellow human minds. All in all, Qur'an is nothing but a lullaby. It has nothing new, it has no point, just an archaic melody for archaic people. Get over.
It is a possibility that's there's a world wide conspiracy of idiot academics that just don't get Ron Hubbard s Intergalactic Space Opera and THAT is why it isn't taught as core curriculum at University all over the entire globe (and is instead relegated to academic studies of the occult along with Christianity and Islam). It's also possible that another Alien force is fighting against the Xenuic fraction. They live on a plane of reality that allows them to only interact with stuck up academics who have leveled up to 351 on WOW. THEY are what's behind the lack of Ron Hubbard s Intergalactic Space Opera as core curriculum at Universities the world over. and other possibilities. OK, given all these possibilities, why do you think that Ron Hubbard's Intergalactic Space Opera is not taught as core curriculum at University? Oh, and by the by, what are your ideas about the Qur'an not being taught as core curriculum at University?
Michael, all I'm saying is you're presenting it as if you found out which possibility is correct. You're making a huge deal out of it as if this was your main argument. If it is then the other possibility exists- if you want to strengthen your case then disprove the other possibility. BTW you must realize there are religious universities that do teach them as a core subject.... but that is besides the point. If they did teach it in public schools you atheists couldn't possibly stand it- look what happened with ID- I don't think ID should be taught in science classes- but the point is a nation is full of many kinds of people with different beliefs- they don't want religion to be taught as a core because you have a lot of conflict of interest- this is why the separation of religion and state in the US is a good idea. You like to skip some basic facts when you pose your arguments. Peace be unto you Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I already said this isn't a formal debate. It's not possible to do an independent study on Why Ron Hubbard's Intergalactic Space Opera isn't core curriculum. BUT, we observe that it is the case and we can speculate as to WHY. I'd say we live 99.99999999987% of each day doing just like this. If you were riding your bike home from University and saw a gang of guys wearing red and looking like they are looking to mug someone, and you happen to have your wallet and full months rent, you'd probably turn around and ride another way. if it were a group of girls from Korea, you'd ride on though - maybe even stop to say hello. If someone seen you do this and asked their buddy: Why do you suppose 786 turned around. You know what, they'd probably give an answer in all of 3 second. They wouldn't speculate on the infinite number of universes. They'd observe you turning around and probably make a pretty good answer as to why. So, I'm wondering WHY is it do you suppose that Ron Hubbard s Intergalactic Space Opera isn't core curriculum? What about that other book, the Qur'an? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Michael PS: Bizza gave an answer, Bizza said it was because academics are stuck up snobs who think they know more then Bizza. Well Bizza knows a lot of stuff too! Bizza smart.... Damn akadeemics... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Because there will be an epic uprising from Atheists and all other religious supporters who staunchly oppose Islam or Ron Hubbard's Intergalactic Space Opera..... :shrug: This could be true... we are speculating afterall- I don't understand why you're laughing at this idea (smiley)- or do you want to speculate specifically in the direction you had in mind- anyways I'm done with this... Peace be unto you Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Do you really think there's going to be an epic uprising? Is that really your answer? Isn't there's a much more simple and reasonable answer as to why both these books are not on the core curriculum list?
Besides your continual hand waiving and protests towards a valid argument, you still cannot contest to it can you? It's quite obvious by the way. You have nowhere to run or hide (logically) and you resort to rhetoric by claiming I use "scientific jargon"? That's your response? Great... you just reaffirmed my assumptions of the atheist mind all along! LOL! Oh reaaaaalllly? Well you better be prepared to answer the article below... responding to your (and Michhead's) audacious and ignorant claims. Not only that, did you read that verse I provided on Black Holes? Now how again did the Roman's, Greek's or any ancient's know about Black Holes again? That's right... they didn't! And how do you think all these preceding animals became "evolved" again? Do you even have an idea, or is it that you just don't know? I think it would be the latter eh? How did "life" (abiogenesis) begin Baftan? Did these dumb, mute, senseless and unconscious atoms somehow "evolve" into consciousness all by themselve's? Plllllleeeeaaaaassssse!!! THAT belief is the MOST rediculous of them all and one that any rational and sensible thinking person should NEVER accept. Ancient knowledge and thus, modern thinking also, stemms from God Himself since the dawn of Mankind. So everything you have learned to date is owed due to the teachings and inspirations of God, handed down to over 120,000 Prophets during this time. These teachings are not so much as "scientific" detail to be used only in science, but are teachings that encompass all facets of life in the most basic yet fundamental way possible. This is because God does allow Human's to further themselve's and think for themselve's and not to be some sort of "automatron"! And which verses "were falsified many times" again? Do prey tell oh wise one! And why not? Is the "Agricultural era" beneath you? When you make comments that reflect EXACTLY what I have been contesting all along... it is sheer reality that you agree with me. You can't contest this no matter how much you try to use your usual rhetoric and hand waiving. No, it is the likes of you and your kind that are poisoning the rest of the rational and sensible thinkers of this world. Make no mistake about it! You DO have a problem with the word "creation" and you even admitted it by saying, "no not this disgusting word (creation)". Wanna try to wriggle your way outta that one? It's you that should "get over" it. If the way we think and believe is of no problem to you all, then why attack us? Why not just get on with your live's and just be happy for yourselve's that you think you are above us "archaic" people. Why can't you just get over that? But noooooo... you can't help yourselve's can you? You have to try to convince us of your immense logic (*cough*hillarious*) and invade our societies with your diseased theories that have no real cohesive philosophical content, let alone any scientific fact to support it to begin with! Sounds a lot like the claims you make of us don't you think? But nooooo... bring on the rhetoric instead, as usual, with no sensible argument, logic nor science whatsoever! Then enter your usual "cheerleaders" to create the atmosphere for yourselve's. Make yourselve's comfy people... it's going to be a bumpy ride! It would be nice if you could actually back up claims for once? But sadly and expectedly, you dissapoint and fail miserably, as usual. And where exactly did I say "academics are stuck up snobs"? hmmm? I really do feel you are desparately trying to reach out to your brethren and also in need of a psychological assesment, immediately, before you explode from self-induced-rage! If you actually did some research, you would have found a plethora of faculties in academia that do actually contain the Qur'an in their libraries? Not only this, there are renowned scientist's that use the Quran within their curriculum... and they're not even Arab's or even Muslim. Funny that hey? Just a foreword before I destroy your claims with evidences to the contrary, I would like you to be aware that the Quran is not a book of science alone and is not supposed to be used as a text to assertain and learn detailed scientific phenomena's. Instead, (as I already mentioned before), it is a book of signs, inspiration and guidance to think for ourselve's and unlock the marvels of life and all that dwells within the universe. Needless to say, it is also a book of moral laws to draw upon in cases where Human intuition alone does not suffice. And much much more! So in effect, it is a book about just about everything in one way or another, in its fundamental state. The rest is up for us to conceive, think, learn and experience for ourselve's. Now onto the counter-facts to your rediculous claims hey Mickhead? Now to add further, here is a list of "Universities" that seem to store the Quran in their "libraries" Mickhead. Their librarieeeeeees.... and in Universitiiiieeeeees I tells ya! Academic Courses using the Qur'an "Teaching the Qur'an Online and Over Time: A Virtual Seminar" (Bruce B. Lawrence, Duke University, and Daniel Varisco, Hofstra University) "The Qur'an, Hadith, and the Prophet Muhammad" (Alan Godlas, University of Georgia) "The Qur'an," (Barbara R. von Schlegell, Department of Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania), with an extensive bibliography al-Qur'an, from the "Al-Khazina [The Treasury]" website, (Jerome Clinton, Princeton University) "Seminar on the Qur'an," (Neguin Yavari, Columbia University) "Islamic Scriptures: The Qur’an and Hadith," (Amir N. Zamani, Rutgers University) "The Qur'an (Koran) in Translation," (Valerie Hoffman, University Of Illinois) "The Qur'an as Literature" (Carl Ernst, University of North Carolina) Still confused Mickhead?:shrug: There's a nice warm white jacket and a nice white padded room for you waiting... just in case.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Of course the Qur'an is stocked in University libraries, right next to all the other religious books. I can promise you it is not given any more or less weight than any other religious book, Budhist, Shinto, Scientology, Bible or Torah. The Qur'an is stocked in libraries because it's taught in comparative religious studies. The point stands that the Qur'an is NOT core curriculum. Now, concidering these are supposedly the WORDS OF GOD then that's sort of funny isn't it? I mean, one would assume that if the CREATOR OF EVERYTHING including reality said something then it'd be IMPORTANT enough for it to be CORE CURRICULUM. I don't choose what is and is not core curriculum - so don't get pissy at me. This is a fact. The Qur'an is not core curriculum. Can you find one person who slips in his religious views into his class? Yes, sure. So what? You can find just as many Christians at University claiming the Earth is 7000 years old. THAT'S NOT CORE CURRICULUM Either. Think about Bizza. You did a thorough search of the Internet and found a couple Muslims who include it in their studies. THAT'S not really all the surprising. Christians are always trying to slip in bullshit about the Bible as well. BUT think for a moment - your own search tells you that the Qur'an is held with such little regard that it's not taken as being all that important. One would think if there were a REAL book by a REAL GOD it'd be so f*cking amazing that EVERYONE in the UNIVERSE would recognize it's value - not just members of the cult. Sorry but this is the reality of things. But, I digress, if there is ONE thing you have learned from the Qur'an, that you think should be taught at Universities the entire world over - something that students don't already get reading a bit of Indian, Chinese or Greek philosophy - then write it NOW. Because if you CAN NOT come up with something that's worth teaching at University that you have learned from reading the Qur'an then THAT sort of says it all .... doesn't it Bizza? Time to put up OR shut up, Lets have it, Michael
Yep... you've confirmed it... you've finally confirmed being my number one on the list of "moron of moron's" and out doing another moron that preceded you. Well done Mickhead!:bravo: See... I can tell your IQ level is pretty much well within the "idiot" line. Do you know how I know? Well... it's obvious to me now that you only filter out the facts and look for words that only suit your agenda. How I can figure that out is; when you idiotically claimed that I somehow searched the Internet and found a couple Muslims who include it (the Quran) in their studies. You didn't actually read the article (obviously) because if you did, you would have noticed that the renowned and reputable scientist's that did the 10 year study were in fact, NON-MUSLIM'SPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!. And THAT'S what is even more damning to your case. LOL!!! And I even mentioned that before I posted the article, but due to your frantic and maniacal "word filtering", you missed it. How sad... for you that is! Read that article again and you will get all the answers to your stupid and idiotic claims. But don't get upset with me... I wasn't the one that included the Quran as part of the curriculum using a biliogical textbook written by the most renowned non-Muslim scientist's in their field, and in universities in the United States too!!!:shrug: Nuff said. Accept it or shut the faaaaaaarrrrrk up!
A "religious university" is an oxymoron. One does not learn there, they continue with their indoctrinations to higher levels of delusion. No, it's not a bad idea to teach about religions. It's a bad idea to indoctrinate people into a religion, which is what you refer.
I understand Michael's response to mean that the quoted examples of scientific suport for the science of the Koran and singular, rare instances initiated by individuals who are either muslim, or have a strong sympathy for Islam. That being the case I too would like to know "ONE thing you have learned from the Qur'an, that you think should be taught at Universities the entire world over" that lies in the field of science. If you have already provided an example in this thread please just mention the post #. I hope you will be able to answer this without the invective and personal attacks that have peppered the last several pages of this thread. (And without explaining to me how you were only reacting to provocation: I'm not interested in excuses, but in a discussion based upon your answer to the question.)
For the umpteenth time... the holy Qur'an is not a book of science. It contains verses which mentions information on scientific phenomena described in its fundamental state. That is, it doesn't go into detailed formulaes or mathematical constructs. But that doesn't mean that the information contained is not of divine origins, as these Western scientist's have seemed to have "got it" without bias or predjudice and was achieved by being purely objective and rational in their research. The information they found in the Qur'an was so accurate that they actually cite verses from the Qur'an and the Hadith in their thesis' and thus, use this in their texts within their curriculum, which btw, is what is being asked by the OP. And this is not the only "rare" instance a non-Muslim Western scientist has used the holy Qur'an within their textbooks. There are others and if need be, I can provide them, but for the sake of brevity, the article I provided should suffice in answering Michael's confused state of affairs. Get over yourself dude... seriously... your rhetoric reaks of atheistic ignorance!
No, it does not. Complete bs. It was written by ignorant men who believed in myths and superstitions, much like yourself, no divine origins whatsoever are found. The Quran has never been found to accurate about anything other than it's own shortcomings and penchant for violence. It doesn't suffice in the least, nor is it likely you'll ever produce anything that will suffice considering it's all bs. Yours rhetoric reeks of lies, deceit and delusion. You're a prime example of the Islamic propaganda machine.
:bugeye: LOL! Yes there is. Another subjective statement with NO intellectual content. Expected! Without telling me "how" it is "bs", once again, yet another subjective statement with NO intellectual content. Expected! And your's isn't hey? There's a pot calling the kettle purple!:bugeye: Save your energy for others that you can convert... not to the converted. Also, fools learn nothing from wise people, but wise people learn alot from fools, like your kind. Have a nice day!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Such a happy deluded fellow. No, there isn't. You mean you don't know that you are a fool? Everybody's been telling you that. Listen closely. Up yours.
And that's how you defeat an atheist in a debate ladies and gentleman. Thanks for coming!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hold on there. There are twenty three pages in this thread. I haven't read them all. I noticed some interesting claims on your part and asked a question. It would help our discussion to proceed in a constructive manner if you work at remaining calm: typing 'for the umpteenth time' implies exasperation with me. I haven't given you any reason to be exasperated with me. ...... Yet. Now, you still haven't answered the question. I understand you to be saying the question is not important. There are no specifics in the Koran you would wish to be included in a science curriculum, rather some verses anticipate discoveries of 'western' science and this you feel should be acknowledged. Do I have that right? Assuming I do I would like to know the specific points the scientists yuou mention found so accurate that they actually cite verses from the Qur'an and the Hadith in their thesis'. Would you provide full citations for these please.
And a university is secular indoctrination--- you are just a cult member of these groups so you would know better Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! It is an extremely bad idea to teach them anything they do not want to learn- that is indoctrination of a sort--- whether it be Evolution or the Holocaust--- But these MUST be taught- how the fuck would assholes like you survive if they didn't.... This is how your group, your cult gains membership Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Peace be unto you Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
