The Proof for ETI

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by crazymikey, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    - The "con artist" has a PDF document with the scanned letter from the District Director, granting them non profit status. If you in are in doubt, you can call them up, quote the case number, and find out for yourself. Of course, we all know by now, you're full of shit, and won't do anything.
     
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  3. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Like I said, do you really think a con-artist can't say they are a non-profit organization? Hell, even scientology is classified as a non-profit.
     
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  5. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    We've been standing by for ages mikey, and you're still keeping us waiting.
    Maybe its just me but i have a feeling MUCH more than 50% of those are repeat hits.
    And in your defence mikey i dont consider you a fanatic, just gullible, but i'll revise the gullible part if you provide more evidence.

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    Also as a reminder, in a court of law i believe testimonies alone dont convict, and the idea is they are part of collective evidence that proves guilt/innocence, so in a way you are right what you provided is evidence, but its not conclusive enough by itself, thats why i've been eagerly awaiting more conclusive evidence.
    Think of it as a jury, you have already been convinced of the truth, and we(the skeptics of the jury) await more evidence, some people are convinced easier than others, skeptics consider this being gullible, believers consider it irrational/ignorant not to believe as a form of evidence has been provided.
     
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  7. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    Why thank you Lemming3K,

    I'm glad you've conceded it's "evidence" it's taken you long, but im glad you came to your senses in the end. Now that you consider it evidence, you can investigate the claims.

    Also in a court law, analysis of scientists, forensics, and doctors is produced, sometimes in written form, and sometimes by their testimony, this is considered analytical evidence. Much like the Physical evidence I have already produced, which are not claims, but analytical reports of physical phenomena.

    Thus thus far, I have produced:

    1: Probability evidence: High probability of Aliens.
    2: Testimonial evidence of NASA, USAF, CIA, NSA
    3: Analytical evidence: Radar reports, Radar-visual reports, and Airforce, and physical traces, and investigation of EM effects of anamolous phenomena

    I will of course produce more, but can you at least engage the evidence I have produced thus far. Now that you recognise it

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    As I am a best judge of myself, and as you do not consider me irrational, I am most certainly not gullible. If I do say so myself, I am of a very analytical nature, and have a very healthy intelligence. I do not accept anything at face value - not even my existence - or crop circles for that matter

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    I have been known to in the past, rip apart some UFO theories, and cases. I have also debunked, and debunked severely, the famous crop circle of milky hill, and even at this forum, the so called photographs of aliens, that were being praised for there realism. I do not believe in Bob Lazar's story. In fact the first post I made at this forum was to debunk the case of the ancient nuclear war. Although I would love to believe it, and even despite the compelling story of Adamsn bridge, I still dismissed it as inconclusie.

    I was asked to leave the last UFO forum I was in, because I severely criticized people there, and rejected 80% of what topics discussed.

    Not very gullible, eh? If im not irrational, and I'm not gullible, then I'm rational. Have a think about that

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    However I could accuse the skeptics of being gullible, of buying every Anti-UFO musing and passing it of with conviction. Some golden ones, "UFO movement is fanatic and cultist", "Holding a press conference is cheap and easy" amongst others. In fact Im not sure, if the word gullible is apt, it's more foolish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2004
  8. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    High probability of Aliens.
    You're kidding right? You're sticking to your 'zillions' argument with complete ignorance of how probability actually works?

    2: Testimonial evidence of NASA, USAF, CIA, NSA

    There are also people in all four of those groups who have 'seen God'... even though they happen to be different gods. Appeal to authority is pretty weak.

    3: Analytical evidence: Radar reports, Radar-visual reports, and Airforce, and physical traces, and investigation of EM effects of anamolous phenomena

    THIS is the only thing that can hold any actual weight. Yet you haven't actually presented anything interesting about it. In fact, you seem to have completely ignored this.

    As I am a best judge of myself, and as you do not consider me irrational, I am most certainly not gullible.

    Well then, you are the only one on the planet who is the 'best judge of [themself]'. And yes, you are quite gullible, as you seem to not at all see the con which is right before your eyes.

    Holding a press conference is cheap and easy

    Funny, I recall saying that it could be cheap if you have something of interest. I never claimed it was easy.


    So, would you care to present any actual evidence. It is noteworthy that your main site (user: youhaveaneed, pass:toknow) doesn't actually contain much behind the doors which you wanted us to pay for. Many claims of people who say "I have evidence of..." but no actual evidence is shown.
     
  9. NanAutaben Registered Member

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    Hello, I just knew overyone would still be at it. I think that some people just like to disagree. I thought chris beacham shared some pretty interesting stuff. Poor Persol was so ignorant acting and closed-minded, I don't think he could understand what you are trying to explaine to him even if he wanted to.
     
  10. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Please, what did he share that was interesting?

    What I saw was someone trying to peddle his wares.
     
  11. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    How does it work. Explain to me what's wrong

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    A wild claim as usual. I think it's full of shit as usual. Prove me right as usual.

    Im glad, you guys are opening up now. Realized your past mistakes? Lemming just admitted testimonials are evidence, and now you admitted, that the physical case evidence can actually hold weight. Did I ignore it? Check, page, 6-7-8(somewhere) there, there is 4 pages of it.

    Yet, can you prove it is a con?
     
  12. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    How does it work. Explain to me what's wrong
    Your argument assumes that the universe is infinite. Hence the 'zillion' comment. This is unsupported.
    It assumes that highly inteligent life is statistically likely. This is unsupported.
    It assumes that long distance space travel for that species is possible, both technologically and physically. This is unsuported.

    A wild claim as usual. I think it's full of shit as usual. Prove me right as usual.

    Perhaps you could try and backup your 'as usual' comment and point to another time I was 'full of shit'? I didn't think so. Otherwise, a quick google search would answer your complaint.

    Im glad, you guys are opening up now... and now you admitted, that the physical case evidence can actually hold weight...

    Hello? Idiot? I'e been saying this from the begining. You're posts however haven't actually contained anything besides claims of evidence.

    Yet, can you prove it is a con?

    Stupid question. Can you prove that Allah isn't the one and almighty god?
     
  13. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    What this shows, you don't understand my argument, and probability. As usual, you've not tried to comprehend, and coughed up more shit,.

    1: Your argument assumes that the universe is infinite. Hence the 'zillion' comment. This is unsupported.

    If you read it again(you can read right?) the universe being infinite is offered as a possibility. And the word "zillion" is not infinite mush for brains. The universe being infinite is the most supported, and the most accepted, on on the contrary there is nothing to suggest it is finite.

    Were you born a moron? It's not supported did you say? The whole argument argues and proves, how it mathmatically certain, there is other life. Also provided are articles, some that have been adopted in scientific journals, that prove it. What is unsupported, is the argument life is rare.

    Now I know you have not read it. Where did I say that? I proved aliens were mathmatically certain, NOT that they can get to us.

    Stop spouting shit. If you have this "evidence" that they have seen God. Show it. Looks like you are proving me right.

    Stupid answer lol - you made the shit statement "it's a con" and you can't even prove it is? Then how do you know? Because you think so? You also think arranging press conferences is easy and cheap, and lights, and sound equipment is not needed, because the press bring their own LOL
     
  14. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    So, you are saying that there are zillions of A. And out of them, zillions of B. And out of them, zillions of C... etc... etc... Do you not see the problem of randmly assigning very high probabilities? And then just assuming that other life is going to be able to actually reach us?
     
  15. NanAutaben Registered Member

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    I was trying to setup a picture that I drew of the UfO I had seen. Anyway I'll try to show you another time.
     
  16. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    Err..
    My twopenneth.
    I'm sure life exists 'out-there' we might even find it in the next week or two.
    However...
    With '58 species' zipping about several 'probability' related questions come to mind.
    FTL travel. Hows it done? 58 species suss it out but we can't. What are the chances of that? Are we just stupid and why won't they tell us all about it?
    Also....
    Why have I never seen one?
    I mean, look at passenger jets, I know their big but they don't exactly take up a massive chunk of sky and I see them every day! Sometimes several times a day and they're only flown by one species!
    But UFO's? No not a sausage!
    Not even a cigar or a saucer come to that.
    My mums never seen one or my dad or my brother or my mates or my dog (well maybe my dog has but he just chooses not to tell me about it)
    Whats the probability of that?
    You can't even claim that 58 seperate species all want to maintain secrecy and thus fly about in stealth UFO's if that was true why go and reveal yourselves to such well known blabbermouths as Pols and Spooks and internet gossipmongers et al? Even Crazymikey seems to know the 'truth!'
    My local cornershop has better security than that.
    Whats the probability that this is the best attempt at secrecy 58 FTL civilisations can come up with?
    So what do all these probabilities add up to?
    There probably is intelligent life out there in the Universe. (I do hope so because there's bugger all down here)
    There probably isn't any alien life on earth. (Depends on what you class as alien though

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    )

    Tell you what mikey bring an alien (any of the 58 types will do) around to my house and I'll believe you (probably)

    The reality or otherwise of 'UFO's' is not the most interesting aspect of the UFO phenomenon IMHO
    BTW how many zeroes does a 'zillion' have mikey?
    Dee Cee
     
  17. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    Ah, I love these rant posts:

    They have most probably existed longer than us too. If you consider it's only taken us 10,000 years to advance from stone age to space age, having the headstart of a million years or 10,000 years, means they have had far more time to evolve. I am sure there are another 58, who may not have sussed it out, so we won't look so bad

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    Then again maybe humans are very stupid, and the aliens are laughing at us, at our expense

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    Right now, in the sky, a few dozen planes are flying. If you look out of your window, you probably won't see it. Does that answer that. Maybe if you were in the air force, you'll have a better chance of seeing one, and, guess what, they do, in fact the lucky bastards even get to chase them

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    You've not seen me, does that mean I don't exist? People get struck by lightning, and you have most probably not, does that mean, it never happens? Have you seen a stealth B-52 fly by you - it exists you know.

    I would normally say, fallacy 2: Demand for irrational evidence, but you meant it in humour, so I'm letting you of with a yellow card.

    Seeing as so few know what this word means. I'll produce the definition:

    Zillion: An indeterminately huge number.
     
  18. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    Mikey if i ever said it wasnt evidence i apologise and i shall edit the post, i believe i said it wasnt CONCLUSIVE evidence on its own(at least thats what i meant). Also the radar reports that you provided i consider inconclusive because you gave 3 different travelling speeds for the object, if it cant even be agreed how fast the object was travelling how can we debunk the claim? Also you provided no evidence for ETI, only UFO's, which as the name so aptly says, are unidentified. Persol mikey is right about the high probability of aliens being out there, but theres a considerably lower probability they have visited(thats not to say they havnt or cant).
    In reality you need to believe 3 things to believe that aliens have visited:
    1. There is life out there.
    2. It is advanced enough to have FTL travel or can travel through wormholes.
    3. That despite being so advanced, they managed to crash their ship which we now examine.

    Although this wasnt aimed at me and i didnt say it was, can you conclusively prove it isnt?

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    Can i point something out about stealth, my understanding of it is that it isnt actually invisible, stealth aircraft simply cant be seen on radar(well actually some show up just stupidly small).

    Finally lets say these thousands of claims of UFO's you say are out there(might not have been you but someone said it earlier) and produce some as ETI evidence are right, thats 1 thousand claims minimum, over 50 years, thats a minimum 20 Alien crafts a year, how comes we dont hear about them more often because thats what, 1 every few weeks minimum?
    Though again this only proves there are unidentified objects flying around, not aliens, and i dont think many of us doubt UFO's only aliens.
     
  19. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    No you really wouldn't want to see me rant.

    Try to be objective now...
    If you were a betting man where would you put your money.

    That a guy on the internet who calls himself crazymikey is right about the Global UFO conspiracy to hide the existence of 58 alien races.
    Or
    There are no spacemen.

    If you vote for yourself let me know.
    I've got some magic beans you might wanna buy only $1000 each
    and no, this is still not a rant.
    Dee Cee
     
  20. Tononi6 Registered Member

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    That a guy on the internet who calls himself crazymikey is right about the Global UFO conspiracy to hide the existence of 58 alien races.
    Or
    There are no spacemen.

    Yes, Crazymikey is 100% correct; there is no doubt about this.
     
  21. Tononi6 Registered Member

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    He is therefore not Crazy - just the opposite.
    By the way, I understand that Dr Greer left his $250000 a year job to deal with the disclosure matter on a full-time basis; quite a sacrifice I believe. Oh - just for one of our number on here - no, I have not seen his P.60 leaving certificate therefore I personally cannot prove that it is true that he left. But a moment's reflection will reveal the folly of stating that you have left your position when you have not.
     
  22. Tononi6 Registered Member

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    Crazymike - I would be inclined to cease trying to convince the doubters at this stage. Better to move on to the political, social, economic and spiritual reasons for the cover-up. There is no headway to be made otherwise; but, I take my hat off to you for your approach and perseverance over the last few months.
     
  23. crazymikey Open-minded Scientist Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks Tononi6, but I am NOT trying to convince anyone now. I am guilty of making fun of the "skeptics", it's entertaining in some way. Their arguments are so chilish and naive, sometimes darn right stupid, I just can't resist. My main motive is to produce evidence for all to see, I don't think everyone is an idiot at this forum, you and a few others, I already hold in high regards. So there is still hope.

    My My, you seem perturbed. Somewhat narrow minded eh? I believe ive already explained why I call myself "crazymikey" to you, and I may not even need a reason, I may just like the sound of the name. That's nothing compared to the names, other people choose online. I'm sure it would not have made a difference to you, if I called myself "sensiblemikey" I also believe I've not said anything irrational thus far, and I've participated in several forums, discussing a multitide of topics.

    And to fully nullify the role of the name: Others who believe in the UFO hypothesis, ranges from John Mack, MD's, Harvard, to NASA scientists, CIA officials, NSA officials, air force pilots, sergants, admirals, Brigadier General's, defence officials, physcists etc.
    I don't really mind being counted amongst them

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