The Palestinians Start To Wake Up

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Buffalo Roam, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    16,931
    Yes, the Arab refugees from the 1948 war are now finally admitting the reality of what their fellow Arabs created for them, a permanent status as refugees for their own political purpose.

    From the mouths of the Refugees themselves, fact.....

    “The radio stations of the Arab regimes kept repeating to us. ‘Get away from the battle lines. It's a matter of 10 days or two weeks at the most, and we'll bring you back to Ein Kerem.’..........​


    The Arabs ordered the Arabs of Palestine to leave Israel.


    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136125

    Arabs Begin to Blame Their Own Leaders for ’Refugee' Status​


    (IsraelNN.com) Arabs who left Israel in the 1948 are are beginning to blame Arab countries for leaving them stateless after promising a quick return to “Palestine.” "They [Arab leaders] said, 'A week, two weeks, approximately, and you'll return to Palestine,'" Sadek Mufid, formerly of Akko (Acre) and now living in Lebanon, recently told Palestinian Authority television................

    The Arab designation of “refugees” is maintained today by the refusal of Arab countries to allow them citizenship, voting rights, or the ability to move into better housing, in order to preserve their “unique status.”...........

    Mufid, who left the village of Dir Al-Qasi near Akko in 1948, told the PA TV's weekly program Returning, "We headed first from Dir al-Qasi to Rmaich [Lebanon], considering what they [Arab leaders] said at the time: 'By Allah, in a week or two, you will return to Palestine.' ...............

    In another PA television interview, an elderly Arab recalled how his family left Ein Kerem, in eastern Jerusalem. “The radio stations of the Arab regimes kept repeating to us. ‘Get away from the battle lines. It's a matter of 10 days or two weeks at the most, and we'll bring you back to Ein Kerem.’...........

    Two years ago, Jordanian-based Aryan journalist Jawad Al Bashiti wrote in Al-Ayyam, “The reasons for the Palestinian Catastrophe [establishment of Israel and the refugee problem] are the same reasons that have produced and are still producing our catastrophes today... The first war between Arabs and Israel had started and the ‘Arab Salvation Army’ told the Palestinians, ‘We have come to you in order to liquidate the Zionists and their state. Leave your houses and villages, you will return to them in a few days safely. Leave them so we can fulfill our mission in the best way and so you won't be hurt.' It became clear already then, when it was too late, that the support of the Arab states [against Israel] was a big illusion.”​
     
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    its sad that rather than blame every one they just blame blame those who lied to them on their own side. They need to blame the leader of both the jewish invasnion and the arab leaders
     
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  5. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    pj, that is who is responsible for this whole disaster, the Arabs, they were the one's encouraged a civil war between the Arabs and Jews in Israel, who then rejected U.N. 181, and then declared a war to destroy a Legal State, in contravention of their treaty obligations to the U.N., made promises they couldn't keep, and then lost, and for the last 62 years have left their fellow Arabs as stateless, homeless, people with out status, or nationality, relegated to Refugee camps, with no rights, jobs, home's, savings, dignity,.......hope, just Broken Promises........
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    History disagrees with you.
    civil war in palestine. You can't even use honest terminolgy. and no thewy didn't. that was a product of the normal fight for control
    Which they were right to do.
    Israel is not a legal state. [QUOTE[in contravention of their treaty obligations to the U.N.,[/QUOTE][ their obligation to the UN was to prevent Israel
    yes
    yes
    So despite the fact arabs at most only controlled around 20% of 45% its still all there fault. Israel had nothing to do with it. Your bigotry is outstanding.


    The palestinians should blame every one who carries guilt of causing them to lose their rights. the US, the UK, Israel, and the arab states.
     
  8. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Do you have any thing resembling factual information, that is verifiable, with reference, that give any credence to your ramblings.

    The Arab State, were in contravention of their Treaty Obligations to the U.N. that is verifiable just by reading the U.N. Charter.

    Now if Israel formed under U.N. auspices, is Illegal State as you opine, then the Palestinian Mandate,....States of Jordan....Syria....Lebanon...Iraq....Pakistan....., all are illegal, as they were formed under League of Nation or U.N. Resolution.

    So now explain why these are not illegal states by you definition?
     
  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    10,296
    The simple answer? He cannot. Rather than deal with actual facts, he would rather work from the perspective of HIS own highly-biased opinion, nothing more. Facts anger him because they betray his true, dishonest colors.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What jurisdiction does the UN have to give away land to Europeans in Palestine?

    What are the obligations of any people to accept the recommendations of the UN General Assembly in any matter?

    Can the UN give away the United States?

    There is no inherent legitimacy to a recommendation made by the UNGA


    Hans Kelsen, probably the foremost International Jurist of his day, ventured an opinion on the legality of partition:

    “The problematic legal nature of the General Assembly’s partition resolution was further expounded by the leading legal theorist of the time, Hans Kelsen. In his comprehensive analysis of the competence of the General Assembly,[16] Kelsen refers to the arguments brought forward in the General Assembly itself that this body, according to the Charter, can only make recommendations. He states, in regard to the partition resolution, that “[t]hese arguments are, from a strictly legal point, correct.”[17] The resolution creating two states in Palestine, for that reason, was not binding upon member states because recommendations, in Kelsen’s words, “by their very nature, do not constitute a legal obligation to behave in conformity with them.”[18] Kelsen clearly states, furthermore, that the General Assembly’s decision was ultra vires: “To decide that the United Nations shall administer a territory for the purpose to establish on it two new states is hardly within the competence of the General Assembly or any other organ of the United Nations.”[19] Similarly, Clyde Eagleton, U.S. expert of United Nations law, stated in no uncertain terms: “It is clear to any student of the Charter that a resolution of the General Assembly, such as that for the partition of Palestine, is no more than a recommendation, and that it can have no legally binding effect upon any state whatsoever.”[20]“
    http://i-p-o.org/palestine-sovereignty.htm

    You know what else the Palestinians haven't tried? They haven't tried the LEGAL route.

    I wonder if the partition would hold up in international court
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    YEs but I boubt you'd read it and if you di you'd probably just go waah your wrong.

    How so? The UN explictly states that member states step up in defense of peoples right to self determination. To allow the jewish state to be formed against the wishes of the population of palestine would have abrogated their duty.

    Because they were created through self determination unlike Israel. Just like all the other times its been explained to you. Really You have to cut this bullshit out where you need all the information given to you regiven to you for every new thread on the topic. IF you can't keep the info straight don't get involved. Now please quit playing stupid. You know the difference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  12. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    I don't know why you all continue to argue the legality of the States conception when the State already exists. I mean its done, its not going to be dismantled.:shrug:
     
  13. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    and why the hell not? eventually someone is going to grow a pair a do what needs to be done.
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    This is not new, Black September didn't happen because the refugees thought their fellow non-refugee arabs were all sugar and honey, and that was fucking 40 years ago!
     
  15. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    If I interpret this correctly ( can't you use a spell checker? ) you have just provided the proof that it is you who fail to read the post, and then then just dismiss the information, and go wah wah wah, your wrong.

    Citation of said passage in the U.N. Charter, Sections, Subsections, Paragraphs, and Points, please, let see you prove thta what you opine is actually as you state and not a cherry picked opine from you fertial imagination.


    pj, again History is against you, the State of Jordan was created from the British Mandate in Palestine in the exact same manner as Israel.

    Syria and Lebanon, were created out of the French Mandate......

    Iraq was created out of the British Mandate in Mesopotamia,.....they were all created by exactly the same procedure as the State of Israel, from League of Nations Mandates and subsequent U.N. Resolutions.

    The Arab State of Palestine is part and parcel of U.N. Resolution 181, it was supposed to be established in the exact same manner as Jordan and Israel, as a Independent State, so if the establishment of Jordan is Legal, and the Palestinian State is Legal in your opinion, both established by U.N. actions, then so to is the State of Israel.

    Here is the Map of the State of Palestine as set out in U.N. 181.

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  16. kororoti Registered Senior Member

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    252
    No, but the British had the right to do so if they pleased. Britain was the country with sovereignty. Prior to them, the area was sovereign territory of the Ottoman empire, but they conceded it to the British as a condition of surrender at the end of World War I, making it Britain's land.

    At the same time.... this means the people living there were British subjects, and Britain should have had the obligation to absorb them as refugees if they were going to give all their land away. Either that, or the new state of Israel should have had that obligation. They were not citizens of Saudi Arabia or Syria, and therefore should not have to be absorbed by them.
     
  17. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    They were considered citizens of 'Transjordan' at the time, or so I'd thought. I recall that there was quite some discussion of the absorption of Palestine by Syria and/or Jordan long before Partition.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    not sure about ayria but jordan sounds right. that would be consistent with a man who while supssidly fighting for the palestinians was in contact with Israel discussing how to divide palestine.
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    Only in your mind



    Smae place the last 57 times you asked. and its not cherry picking.




    No they weren't created the same way. The arab states were created as a reflection of their wishes Israel was created contrary to the wishes of the people of the territory. opposites aren't the same.
     
  20. kororoti Registered Senior Member

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    252
    Yeah. That is correct, but Trans-Jordan was officially English territory, along with Palestine. Both of those territories were conceded by the Ottomans after WW 1 as part of their surrender.

    If there was talk about absorption by Palestine or Syria, then that probably referred to them absorbing the land with the people on it, not them absorbing the people and someone else absorbing the land. In a trade like that, the country absorbing the people/refugees would certainly be getting the short end of the stick.


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  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe, maybe not but it helps to have a legal judgement if only to counter the hasbara. For example, all the hasbara about the "hard to resolve the legality of" issues of the occupation, green line, Jewish settlers, apartheid wall etc are effectively demolished by a brief perusal of the ICC legal opinion on the legality of the wall.

    If the ICC legal opinion declared the UNGC resolution as a non-binding recommendation [which it is, as touted by Americans and Israelis for the Goldstone Report], then it becomes harder for Israelis to justify a "Jewish" state based on it by eliminating any obligation on the part of any Palestinian to recognise the state.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  22. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    The Legal Judgement is that Israel is a Legal State.
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    pj: That's a silly notion. Millions of people live in Israel - millions of Israelis. Nobody is going to dismantle Israel.

    I don't know why you waste your time on pipe dreams. You need to start dealing with reality at some point.
     

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