The Over Population Problem

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Liebling, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. dixonmassey Valued Senior Member

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    2,151
    Damn we do starve here in North America for good, tasty, fresh, not saturated with chemicals food. Most don't even know how a tomato meant to taste, hint, it's not rubber. I do starve for a farmer who would bother to grow a fruit, chicken or vegetable in 50 mile radius.
     
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  3. charles brough Registered Senior Member

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    This is a common mistaken assumption. We tend to assume over-population is defined by people starving to death. That is not the case. Over-population is a biological process. In living animals, it is determined by an innate social mechanism in which the closeness of numbers builds stress within the individual. In other words, when numbers are increasing but the space cannot expand, a point is finally reached when the state of over-crowding occurs in the animal and it begins to feel increasing levels of stress. Finally, the animals begin to die off from adrenal exhaustion of some sort. Generally, there is no visible pathology. Or, stress build-up causes a breakdown in social behavior and we encounter what is called "the behavioral pit." In both cases, there is a population crash.

    We are biological beings like other animals and have experienced biological and social evolution. We behave that way too. However, our societies are larger then the little hunting-gathering troops we evolved in, so we depend upon large ideological systems to bind us together. Thus, they help to keep down stress even when we live in such numbers in such large groups.

    But our ideological systems do break down as they get old. This is what we now face. We are densely crowded into an Earth in vast numbers when we are evolved to live only in little hunting-gathering sized groups. So, as our ideological system---including our secular ideology---break down, stress builds up. The suicide rate increases, medical problems proliferate, crime grows and shortages of prisons arise, young men become anarchists and go out and shoot people or people turn into gangs and rioters.

    The only solution to this, since we have the weapons of mass death and destruction so conveniently available for the approaching population crash, is to develop a new ideology, one that is "the wave of the future" in that it provides us with the goal of space colonizing and, among other things, the limiting of population growth and the preserving of our environment.

    charles
    http://atheistic-science.com
     
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  5. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

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    World War III will happen. And I think it will be on American soil. Mexican President Fox (former) said in a public interview that Mexicans are trying to take back the land that they believe they are entitled to. The Arab world has the capability to transport many people on boats. China... duh. They all hate the US for our wrongs. Though many many people around the world thank the US everyday for the advances made in the States and the care provided globally by us. I havent figured out where Russia will stand in WW III. They are totally self serving and may destroy China, or come through Canada and waste the northern US.

    In any matter, the US infastructure will fall in a matter of days or weeks. We will not have electricity on the grid, but we will have communication on the radio. So keep some batteries handy. Food will be reduced to truckloads at drop points, at least for the city dwellers. America will NOT fall. It is impossible to crush the spirit of freedom. Everyone, regardless of race, will fight. However, the enemy will be hard to identify because it will be guerrilla war with a military presence. Very chaotic. Chemicals and biological agents will be everywhere. Boy its going to be rough.

    So, to potentially avoid this, we will probably be sterilized. This is much easier to achieve. Russia is now producing HUGE amounts of food in S. Ukraine. Yes, the radioactive kind of food. I am guessing this type of tactic will put enough holes in our body to cause infertility. Only the smart and the strong can avert sterilization. Of course, we could just be blasted with gamma and x-rays.

    Anyway, overpopulation is a BIG problem and it will be dealt with one way or another.
     
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  7. theobserver is a simple guy... Registered Senior Member

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    I will buy myself a television if they are going to broadcast it live. Haven't seen a World war in my life.

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  8. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

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    Oh this is worth mentioning. Many of Americas croplands faced drought these last couple of years and food production fell. Crop futures rose on the stock market. Wheat was quite expensive. As a result, the US did not send the usual amount of aid around the globe. Extra starvation. If America falls, the rest of the world falls as well. The repercussions of the US market failure is beginning to affect other countries as well. In a short amount of time, we will see the world fall into chaos. Cash flow is going to stop.

    So many people work individual jobs and do not produce thier own food. The barter system will return. Monocroppers will have to find other foods to get nourishment. Big problems are coming. I bet the McDonalds value menu banks hard globally during all of this. Invest in cheeseburgers.

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  9. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

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    Thats why i dont think there will be large nuclear warheads. Maybe a dirty suitcase bomb here and there, but no russian missile strikes. This war is going to televised and recorded on camera. There are too many sadists who want to see this war from thier couch. Watching a city get leveled is only so entertaining. Being able to see grief and fear on a face is the ultimate TV. Chaos is sooooo entertaining.
     
  10. theobserver is a simple guy... Registered Senior Member

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    Its simply human nature.

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  11. charles brough Registered Senior Member

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    Slacker 47 is very pessimistic.

    Which is to me the whole point. It is not that we are so over-crowded that many of us are starving or that we cannot find housing. It is that we will build up ever more stress. This is because over-crowding causes stress in other animals. Most die from adrenal gland over-use. In other cases, the stress causes a behavioral collapse. In each case, there is a crash in population numbers.

    Like Slacker, most of us will be under so much stress that we will want it to all end. But, hay! Allow a little time! This won't happen tomorrow. Myself, I see it coming before the middle of the century.

    But that may be too optimistic!

    charles
    http://atheistic-science.com
     
  12. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

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    667
    Insightful. Living in the inner-city is very stressful. It is also much less organised, which makes me wonder how the whole thing gets started. I dont see any kind of revolution coming, so it will probably be a crisis.

    I dont think that stress will be the reason. However, it will be nice to focus on other things. Remember the 2-minute hate from 1984? Stress needs to be relieved. It does not cause war, at least for me living in the city.
     
  13. theobserver is a simple guy... Registered Senior Member

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    338
    So what causes the stress? Why not tackle it than tackling the consequences?
     
  14. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    Their is no overpopulation problem, just mental nuts living in their small apartments crawling the walls.

    It would bbe nice to see international law the defines the minium amount of space for a human dwelling, then we would not see such comments about overpopulations.

    Miminum room size for a human is 30 feet by 30 feet. thats 900 square feet to a room.
    Present dwelling designers do not take this biometeric fact into consideration when building dwellings for humans, A mistake made round the world by enginerrs and architects.

    so we have to put up with angry and uncomfortable people, who talk about overpopulation.


    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  15. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Waldo, where are you? Waldoooooooooo!!!

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  16. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    a picture of a beach in a city in the summer is proof of over-population? :shrug:

    OK, here's what it looks like where I grew up

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  17. Enmos Staff Member

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  18. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, but as we all know, that was 50 years ago...

    By the way anyone who thinks we don't have an overpopulation problem is an idiot. The End.

    P.S.: 150K people extra every day.... Argue against that....
     
  19. Enmos Staff Member

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    And those are just the wealthy enough countries.

    Cancer ?
     
  20. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    AIDS, war?
     
  21. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    Well there is certainly enough land in the world, as humans use less than 2% of the earths habital land mass.

    The average person eats about 2,000 pounds of food a year, the earth yelids food product at a rate of 1 to 6 pounds of food per square foot, so that amounts to anywhere from 333 square feet to 2000 square feet to feed a person for a year. A square miles has 27,878,400 square feet in it, so it supports 13,939 to 83,718 people. The habitable land mass could said to support anywhere from 4,353,383,874,000 to 724,838,400,000 people.


    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  22. charles brough Registered Senior Member

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    476
    This is an understandable mistake. People do not realize that "over-population" has no direct bearing to how many people can be crowded into a single space nor is it even connected to how much food is available. It is directly related only to how much stress we humans can endure.

    This is a science forum, so keep in mind that we are part of the biological world and that we are not the only animal that can become over-crowded. In other animals, what happens is that at a certain population density peculiar to that species in that area, stress begins to build as the population grows beyond that level. It builds until animals begin dying from adrenal gland overload. In other animals, the same mechanism causes a collapse in their normal behavior and their social relations break down. They form "gangs," females desert the nest, rape takes place and some males adopt a sort of trance. The result is a population crash in both cases.

    Doesn't this all seem familiar? It has also been found that stress causes tested animals to become fat. Is that behind the increase in obesity? What about all our social problems?

    This presents a foreboding picture. As it was with the Roman Empire when stress built up to such an extent that people longed for The End Times just to see their society go and the rich to get their just deserves, so it is shaping up with us.

    charles
    http://atheistic-science.com
     
  23. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    12,671
    Yeah, I was just thinking of moving to the Himalaya, because I like high altitude... Although I don't think corn will grow there....
     

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