The Organon of Medicine

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by timokay, Sep 5, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    My summary of the Organon of Medicine, by Hahnemann.

    In 1810, twenty years after Hahnemann first began working on his medical system, he published a book to explain the medical system, how to use it and how the body deals with disease. Hahnemann established the truth through a great deal of practical experience and pure experimentation. AFTER THIS, he documented this truth, in his own way, in the Organon of Medicine.

    The book begins with a conceptual model he devised incorporating all his findings about disease, its cure, and much more.

    The book consists of 291 "Articles" or "Aphorisms", and references to these numbers are included below. Anyone who is really interested in getting to the bottom of the Homeopathy debate should, at least, make an effort to understand this perspective. My objective was to simply find the truth, whatever it is. And, reading and understanding this book was essential to this task.

    The words "Symptoms" and "Signs" are synonymous here; every detectable/perceptible manifestation of disease.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    That disease is an entity specific to each patient.

    That the "totality of perceptible signs" represents the entire extent of the sickness. Looking inside the body for explanations/mechanisms is futile, and unnecessary.

    (9) The functioning body is not just "chemical".
    The living being operates on a "dynamic" principle, called the Vital Principle or Vital Force (VF).

    (Kuby, Modern Textbook of Immunology, Second Ed, Overview: "The cells and molecules of the immune system act together in an exquisitely adaptable "dynamic" network whose complexity rivals that of the nervous system.")

    (10) Without the VF everywhere present in the body, the "chemical" organism is unable to maintain itself and therefore dies.

    (11) When a man falls ill, the VF becomes "untuned" by the "dynamic" influence of the disease agent.

    (12) The VF then brings about the disagreeable sensations and abnormal functions called disease accessible to the senses of patient and doctor, and which represent the "whole" disease. Conversely, the disappearance of all perceptible deviations from health, means the VF has recovered its normal integrity.

    (13) Disease, excluding surgical cases, is NOT an entity hidden in the interior of the organism, separate from its living totality,

    NOR an entity separate from the VF.

    (14) There is no curable disease that does not announce itself through subjective and objective symptoms.

    (15) The suffering of the untuned VF and the totality of perceptible symptoms that represent the disease are one and the same. The "chemical" organism and VF are inseparable. The doctor has therefore only to eliminate the "totality of symptoms" to simultaneously restore the VF AND eradicate the disease.

    (16) Disease agents can only untune the "dynamic" VF in a "dynamic" way. The doctor can only correct the untunement by acting on the VF with medicines which also have "dynamic" actions,

    BUT only when the "totality of symptoms" have revealed the disease to the carefully observing and enquiring doctor, so that they can be cured.

    (18) The "totality of symptoms" in each individual case is the only indication guiding to the choice of medicine.

    Medicines can cure disease only if they possess the power to alter the way a person feels and functions. Indeed, it is ONLY because of this power that they are medicines at all.

    The "totality of symptoms" associated with each medicine is first carefully studied in the healthy.

    (22) Substances become medicines because they can arouse certain symptoms and signs which can destroy symptoms/signs which exist in the natural disease of the patient, PROVIDED that the two sets of symptoms closely match, established by pure experiment.

    Administered properly potentised in small doses, the medicine will rapidly and permanently destroy the totality of symptoms in the patient and therefore the disease.

    (26) A natural law of Homeopathy: In living organisms, a weaker dynamic affection is permanently extinguished by a stronger one (in this case, the medicine) which, though different in nature, greatly resembles it in expression.

    (31) Disease agents do not have the absolute power to untune our VF. We fall ill ONLY when susceptible, for whatever reason. So, disease agents do not make everybody sick each time.

    (32) On the other hand, medicines (conceptually "artificial diseases") affect EVERY person, EVERY time, to bring about its characteristic symptom pattern.

    (33) The medicine must be both very similar in symptoms to the natural disease AND stronger than it.

    In this situation, the medicine transfers the untunement of the VF caused by the natural disease to an artificial disease condition, but only when very similar in symptoms to the natural one. The natural disease becomes disengaged or taken over, and extinguished. The medicinal artificial disease, when the body realises there is no disease agent, then quickly wanes leaving only health.

    (35) Medicines which are not homeopathic will never cure any disease.

    (38) Two dissimilar diseases meeting in a person will compete such that the stronger will temporarily suppress and suspend the milder one until the stronger disease has run its course. Then, the milder disease reappears, uncured, to express its symptoms.

    (42) Two similar natural diseases cannot ward off or suspend each other such that one comes back after the disappearance of the most recent. Neither can they coexist in the same organism if they are similar in symptoms and effects. The stronger DESTROYS the weaker.

    The VF can only become "untuned" by ONE disease at any one time. In this case, the weaker disease is completely extinguished by the stronger...the weaker was only a "dynamic" affection anyway.

    (54) Allopathy (Convention Medicine, in Hahnemann's time):

    (A). Allopathy generally uses speculation and scholastic arguments instead of observation of natural phenomena and experimentation.
    (B). "Cure" in disease means a material to be expelled.
    (C). Uses mixed drugs and crude (large) doses.
    (D). Maintains its credibility through palliative relief.

    (63) Every medicine that acts to alter the VF, brings about modifications to health called the PRIMARY ACTION.

    The primary action is a product of both the medicine and the VF, but mainly the former. The VF is initially passive, and accepts the medicine's action.

    But later, the VF tends to oppose the influence by the medicine, and this is called the SECONDARY ACTION. And this opposite action usually matches the strength of the medicine's primary action.

    (66) But small Homeopathic doses produce a primary action which is barely perceptible at all, and the VF's opposite secondary action is the same.

    (68) The medicine may introduce a slight medicinal disease ALONE in the body, but it is fleeting and mild, and so the VF can easily act on this small disturbance to restore complete cure.

    (69) Palliative medicines: Exactly the opposite happens in palliative procedures. The doctor chooses medicine with the opposite symptom to the patient's complaining symptom. But, this only hides the patient's symptom from the VF for a while. Palliative medicine cannot supplant the pathologically untuned VF in the organism - it only makes the VF insensible to it by producing a condition completely different from the untunement. And the effects of the palliative soon disappear leaving the natural disease intact.

    The secondary action of the VF to the palliative worsens the disease symptom it temporarily alleviated. The larger the dose of palliative, the worse this opposite aggravation.

    (70) Summary of the preceding aphorisms.

    (71) Summary of the following aphorisms: Human diseases are nothing but groups of symptoms which are destroyed/changed into health by medicinal substances that artificially produce similar disease symptoms. There are THREE questions to the task of curing disease:

    Q1: How does the doctor ascertain what needs to be known about diseases in order to cure them?

    Q2: How does he investigate the curative nature of Homeopathic medicines?

    Q3: How does he apply Homeopathic medicines most effectively to cure diseases?

    Q1: Aphorisms 72-104: Ascertaining what needs to be known about diseases:

    Diseases are ACUTE or CHRONIC. Acute diseases are rapid disease processes/untunements of the VF which run their course and end quickly. Chronic diseases, enigmatic initially, dynamically untune the living organism from health gradually in their own characteristic way. The VF can only imperfectly resist. As disease progresses, the VF becomes ever more untuned, until death. These diseases are inherited, i.e., genetic in origin, but are still considered, in nature, to be "dynamic" contagions.

    (73) Acute diseases are brought on by harmful influences, but are mostly "flare-ups" of a latent chronic disease, which then returns to a dormant state if the flare-up is not too severe, nor long acting.

    (74) Chronic: Must include all the diseases artificially created by Allopathy, which relentlessly weaken the VF. For example, true local inflammations are cured by Homeopathic medicines that dynamically remove the underlying arterial irritations, yet the Allopathic solution may even result in death.

    (77) Persistent diseases resulting from avoidable noxious influences that are not chronic, go away on their own when living conditions are improved.

    (78) True chronic diseases arise from inherited factors, and continue to worsen until death, even in those with robust constitutions and in ideal living conditions. A young person may appear to be healthy, but a chronic disease may be present which remains hidden for years, only to emerge later after stressful events.

    (79) Three categories of chronic diseases:

    1. Syphilis, 2. Gonorrhoea (sycosis) are chronic diseases which persist until death if not treated.

    (80) The third kind is called PSORA, the underlying cause of immeasurable chronic diseases, which I spent 12 years studying. My new medicines, along with those pre-existing, treat all these conditions.

    (81) Concerns about Allopaths' wrongful naming of diseases, and failure to distinguish between many of them.

    (82) In chronic disease, as in acute, the doctor must gather all symptoms and signs in each individual case by the same means. This symptom gathering is far more difficult than in acute diseases, as the chronic ones subtly evolve over years.

    (84-99) The detailed procedure and guidelines for taking the case (to obtain all manifestations of the patient's illness).

    (100-103) Additional procedure for epidemics.

    (104) Monitoring of the case.

    Q2: Aphorisms 105-145: How does the doctor investigate the curative nature of Homeopathic medicines, the tools of Homeopathic cure?

    Must know the entire pathogenetic action of as many medicines as possible in the healthy so as to increase the choice of satisfactorily matching to natural diseases.

    (108) Moderate doses of medicines are given experimentally to the healthy to ascertain all manifestations both physically and in the psyche (called a "proving"). Ref. "Force of medicines observed in the healthy human body", 1805. I was the first person to do this, though others have accidentally 'proved' substances, e.g., poisons. This extensive work was a reflection of my faith in the Homeopathic method, the only way to completely cure human disease.

    (111) These provings convince me that medicinal substances pathologically alter human healthy human bodies ACCORDING TO DEFINITE ETERNAL NATURAL LAWS and that by virtue of these laws, EACH SUBSTANCE CAN PRODUCE THESE SPECIFIC FIXED RELIABLE DISEASE SYMPTOMS THAT ARE CHARACTERISTIC OF IT.

    (112) Medicines taken immoderately can have very serious or fatal consequences. This does not occur at the beginning but at the end, with completely opposite symptoms, and is the SECONDARY ACTION or COUNTERACTION by the VF. In controlled doses of H. medicines the secondary actions are barely noticeable, just enough to re-establish the healthy state.

    (113) Narcotics seem to be an exception though in pure experimentation the secondary action is detectable.

    (115) Alternating action.

    (116) In medicine provings, some symptoms are seen in many people, and other symptoms much less frequently. This is related to the physical disposition of a few 'sensitive' people. But these symptoms only appear not to be affecting the less sensitive people, because these medicinal symptoms, when associated with a homeopathically chosen medicine, act on ALL sick people with that symptom presentation.

    118) Every medicine has a unique total pattern of effects, and this must be fully investigated, by pure experiment ("Proving").

    (121) Medicines have a range of strengths. The stronger are effective in small doses. The milder must be given in larger doses. The weakest ones only reveal their actions when tested on delicate/sensitive healthy people.

    (124) Each medicine must be taken completely alone on the day it is administered.

    (126) Provers must be trustworthy and conscientious.

    (128) Crude medicinal substances do not express all their symptoms nearly as well as when potentised, e.g., to 30c. With these potencies, their virtues are developed to an unbelievable degree.

    (129) There is remarkable variation in the sensitivity of people to doses. The robust require MUCH larger doses to present symptoms. But, must START with low doses, because you cannot predict who will be robust and who sensitive to this particular medicine.

    (135) All symptoms associated with a medicine do not appear in all provers... need multiple persons of both sexes for a complete proving.

    (137) Sensitive persons are the best for obtaining the primary actions (i.e., symptoms) of the medicine before they become clouded by the secondary counteractions of the VF.

    (143) After many detailed provings, the medicines' characteristics are fully listed in "Materia Medicae".

    (145) There is a need for more than the 99 available medicines to better treat all chronic diseases, though it is possible to manage with this relatively small number.

    Q3: Aphorisms 146+: Most effective employment of the Homeopathic medicines for the cure of natural diseases.

    END OF PART 1 of 2
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Organon of Medicine - Part 2

    Q3: Aphorisms 146+: Most effective employment of the Homeopathic medicines for the cure of natural diseases:

    (147) Amongst the medicines investigated, the one whose observed symptoms are most similar to the totality of symptoms of a natural disease must be the surest Homeopathic medicine for the disease.

    (148) The natural disease is NOT a noxious 'substance' residing in, or on, the organism, but a dynamic entity which, acting as if by a kind of infection, upsets the VF in its instinctive control of the entire organism, forcing it to produce disease symptoms.

    If the VF is made to stop feeling the actions of this "dynamic" entity striving to perpetuate the disorder, e.g., through administration of a Homeopathic medicine which can untune the VF in the most similar way (and more strongly than the natural disease), then the feeling of the natural disease agent becomes lost to the VF. It is annihilated from that moment.

    In acute diseases, the disease normally resolves in a few hours after the appropriate dose, but if the medicine was not well chosen it takes longer. Selection of the right medicine can be an arduous task.

    (149) Old Chronic diseases need more time to assess and treat.

    (153) Among the symptom lists of available medicines, close attention should be paid to the STRIKING or UNUSUAL CHARACTERISTIC SYMPTOMS in the patient because it is these, above all, which must correspond closely to the characteristics of the chosen medicine.

    (154) The medicine with the greatest number of matching unusual/characteristic symptoms is the most suitable, and a single dose should cure fairly recent acute diseases.

    In sensitive patients, some mild and temporary aggravation of symptoms may occur, especially if the dose is not sufficiently potentised. This aggravation (otherwise known as the Primary Action of the medicine) is quite common but is a good sign that this single dose will extinguish the acute disease.

    (161) But, no aggravations are allowed in Old Chronic diseases during their treatment. And, they do not appear if the small doses of the appropriate medicine are increased in potency at each dose (Aph 247).
    When this is done, some aggravations may appear only when cure is virtually complete.

    (162) Sometimes, a natural disease occurs for which no medicine is a particularly good match.

    (163) However, the closest medicine should be chosen and in very small doses. Some unwanted symptoms (from the medicine) may be expected, but these are mild with such small doses, and they will not hinder a good start towards cure.

    (164) Even if there are not many matching symptoms between the natural disease and the best-chosen medicine, if the matching symptoms are of the "Unusual" or "Characteristic of the disease" type, cure normally follows. Fortunately, there is very rarely a situation in which a reasonably good medicine cannot be found for a Natural Disease.

    If the best-chosen medicine is not successful, its effects will at least direct the doctor to a more appropriate one. The doctor assesses the combination of the remaining natural disease symptoms and those added by the less than perfectly homeopathic medicine. With acute disease, in this situation of not having a very well-chosen medicine to work with, there is no need to wait for the medicine to actually complete its action before selecting the next. Again, one dose is normally sufficient to bring the disease to cure, or much closer to cure.

    If symptoms remain after subsequent medicines, again the totality of symptoms is assessed and the most appropriate medicine chosen.

    (171) Commonly, more than one medicine will be needed to treat the PSORA chronic diseases. Again, each medicine (called an "anti-psoric") is chosen according to the totality of remaining symptoms after the previous medicine has completed its action.

    (173) "Defective diseases", usually chronic, have few presenting symptoms, and therefore need a much closer scrutiny by the doctor. With such few symptoms, the best-chosen medicine is not likely to succeed unless the available patient's symptoms happen to be of the "peculiar/characteristic of that medicine" type.

    But, the medicine will bring out more symptoms, improving the chances of finding the most appropriate medicine from the remaining totality of symptoms. This process is repeated until cure is complete.

    (186) Surgical cases.

    (189) No external ailment (which is not due to a particular external injury) exists WITHOUT involving the whole organism.

    (194-200) Medicines should not be applied externally (e.g., to skin symptoms), neither with acute nor chronic diseases.

    (203) Destroying skin symptoms with surgery, burning away, caustics, sulphur baths, etc, only WORSENS the internal disease, making it chronic (or more chronic) and very difficult to treat.

    (206) PSORA Chronic disease treatment: The doctor must first enquire about whether the patient has previously suffered from syphilis or gonorrhoea (sycosis), and FIRST deal with any remnants of these chronic diseases before addressing the symptoms purely associated with the PSORA chronic disease.

    (209) Understanding the disease picture in PSORA chronic diseases can be a lengthy process. But, again, one must look to match the most unusual/peculiar/characteristic symptoms in the patient with the same in the medicine. "Defective diseases" belong to the PSORA chronic disease category.

    (212) Mental and emotional symptoms are very important and can be decisive because medicines are always found to have distinctive mental or emotional symptoms.

    (214) Mental diseases are treated in exactly the same way as physical diseases, matching to the psychic symptoms encountered by healthy persons during the medicine provings.

    (215) Almost ALL so-called mental or emotional diseases are nothing but physical diseases in which mental symptoms usually increase as the physical symptoms diminish, until the disease mental symptoms reach their most striking state of
    defectiveness.


    (216-230) The treatment of Mental & Emotional diseases.

    (231) Intermittent diseases: Those that recur at definite intervals, OR where disease conditions alternate with each other at indefinite intervals.

    The latter type all belong to the PSORA Chronic diseases, and therefore to be treated with anti-psoric medicines, unless complicated with syphilis, in which case the anti-psoric must be alternated with an anti-syphilitic medicine (see my book "The Chronic Diseases" for details).

    (232) Sometimes there are more than two diseases alternating.

    (235) Intermittent fevers are sporadic and epidemic, and each paroxysm often consists of two alternating phases opposite each other, OR three alternating phases. The chosen medicine, usually not an anti-psoric, should be able to produce the above two or three states in the Healthy person, or at least correspond Homeopathically to the characteristics of the strongest phase/states. But it is preferable to choose the medicine based on the symptom pattern of the patient outside his attacks.

    (236) The medicine should be administered soon after an attack, when the patient is settled, and the VF is in the best state to accept and be affected by the medicine.

    (238) A single dose can cure and even prevent several attacks, but it is usual to initially need one dose after each flare up of malaria. Q-potencies, newly introduced in the 6th-Edition ORGANON at Art. 270, allow (always slightly modified but) rapid repeation of doses without the aggravations inexplicably common with c-potencies. Each subsequent dose of the same potency is thus to be dynamised with 10 or 12 succussions. If there is recurrence of the same fever days later, then the cause is the fever re-asserting itself, which only occurs in marshy districts (malaria and related). For complete cure in this instance, the exciting cause, which has thus become the sustaining cause (similar to cholera, scarlet fever, ameboid dysentery, etc.), must be removed either by public-health authorities or by the person moving away from such contagion and preferably by a sojourn in the mountains.

    (240) If the homeopathic medicine for the intermittent fever does not cure fully, AND it is not related to living in a marshy region, this means a Psora chronic disease is in the background, and an anti-psoric must be used for complete cure.

    (241) For intermittent fevers in single individuals away from marshy areas, must first treat the fever (e.g., malaria, which is not a chronic disease) with medicines which are not anti-psoric, for several days. If recovery cannot be accomplished with these medicines, it means there is an underlying Psora disease beginning to appear, so an anti-psoric medicine must now be used.

    (244) Re. Intermittent diseases of marshy areas (malaria, etc.): A young healthy person can become accustomed to it and stay healthy provided his way of life is exactly right. The intermittent fevers endemic to this marshy areas will only affect him if he is a newcomer. But then, ONE, or possibly TWO, minute doses of highly potentised cinchona bark will likely fully restore him to health.

    But, if full recovery does not occur with cinchona bark, it means that there is an underlying Psora developing a chronic condition that requires anti-psoric medicines for cure. However, if the patient is not too ill and therefore not treated with anti-psorics (i.e., the psora has not developed completely and can return to its latent state), these people soon recover if they move to a dry mountainous region - the fever resolves - but they will NEVER become really healthy without the anti-psoric treatment. (Re. footnote to Aphs 244 & 276.)

    (245) MEDICINES: The method of using them and regimen when taking them:

    (246) After a dose of medicine, as long as there is an obvious improvement, no more medicine of any kind must be given, as its action speeds towards completion. This is the frequent pattern with acute diseases.

    But, if the disease is chronic, a single dose can sometimes accomplish cure, but slowly in 40 to 100 days. The doctor can accelerate this recovery, sometimes down to below 20 days, provided that the following conditions are fulfilled:

    (1). The medicine is accurately homeopathic, (2). It is highly potentised, dissolved in water, given in suitably small doses, and at optimal time intervals. (3).BUT, the degree of potency of each successive dose must be greater than the preceding dose, or the VF (which is being diverted to this artificial medicinal disease) reacts unfavourably to it, AND to doses given at frequent intervals.

    But these two problems have been overcome with my new (6th Ed.) method of potentisation (or dynamisation). See footnote of Aph 246.

    (247) So, it is inadmissible ever to repeat exactly the same dose without modifying it. The VF OPPOSES such identical doses - the other (unwanted) symptoms of the medicine appear. The previous dose had already completed its action on the VF.

    But, by slightly modifying the potency upwards (Aph 269/270), the sick VF allows itself to be altered further by the same medicine without ill effects.

    (248) Further procedure on the treatment of chronic diseases.

    (249) Unhomeopathic selection: overdosing and anti-doting.

    (252) If a chronic disease does not resolve with anti-psoric treatment, it must be something in the patient's way of life that is causing it, which must be identified and eliminated.

    (253) In all diseases, the psychic condition and demeanour of the patient is very revealing.

    (269) MAKING THE MEDICINES : The theory of their mechanism.

    (270) MAKING THE MEDICINES : The detailed practical preparation procedure.

    (272) The method of administration: pill on the tongue or dissolved in water.

    (273-274) A patient should be treated with no more than one medicine at a time. It is ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN to give more than one medicine at a time. Re. Quinine example in aph 273.

    (275) After selection of the best medicine, the correct "smallness" of the dose is very important, for gentle action. Otherwise, there is a danger of harm.

    (276) Overdosing.

    (278) Determining the ideal dose: only meticulous observation of the sensitivity of each patient can determine this, IN EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE.

    (279) The rule about dose selection:

    "The dose of a highly-potentised medicine beginning the treatment of a chronic disease cannot be made so small: 1). that it is not stronger than the natural disease, 2). that it cannot at least partially overcome it, 3). that it cannot at least partially extinguish it in the VF, and 4). that it cannot start the process of cure."

    (284) Other means of medicine administration.

    END
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2003
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    List of baselsss assumptions:

    (9) The functioning body is not just "chemical".
    The living being operates on a "dynamic" principle, called the Vital Principle or Vital Force (VF).
    There is no evidence of the power which he grants the VF. His Vf is more akin to a 'lifeforce' then the immune system.

    (10) Without the VF everywhere present in the body, the "chemical" organism is unable to maintain itself and therefore dies.
    So he claims that only the chemical part dies? Proof? Science? Anything besides assumptions?

    (11) When a man falls ill, the VF becomes "untuned" by the "dynamic" influence of the disease agent.
    So he wants to replace the words ill and sick with 'untuned'. Doesn't actually say anything but make it sound catchy.

    (12) The VF then brings about the disagreeable sensations and abnormal functions called disease accessible to the senses of patient and doctor, and which represent the "whole" disease. Conversely, the disappearance of all perceptible deviations from health, means the VF has recovered its normal integrity.
    Proof?

    (13) Disease, excluding surgical cases, is NOT an entity hidden in the interior of the organism, separate from its living totality,
    Funny, no evidence of this... but plenty that disease IS caused by external agents.

    (14) There is no curable disease that does not announce itself through subjective and objective symptoms.
    That is commonsense. It's not much of a disease if it doesn't have any symptoms.

    (21) Medicines can cure disease only if they possess the power to alter the way a person feels and functions. Indeed, it is ONLY because of this power that they are medicines at all.
    Completely ignoring plenty of medicines which attack the CAUSE, not the symptoms... of sorry... VF.

    (22) Administered properly potentised in small doses, the medicine will rapidly and permanently destroy the totality of symptoms in the patient and therefore the disease.
    Proof?

    (26) A natural law of Homeopathy: In living organisms, a weaker dynamic affection is permanently extinguished by a stronger one (in this case, the medicine) which, though different in nature, greatly resembles it in expression.
    So people can't have 2 illnesses at a time. Yeah, sure, lol. I guess the VF gets confused and says 'only so much sickness at a time'.

    (32) On the other hand, medicines (conceptually "artificial diseases") affect EVERY person, EVERY time, to bring about its characteristic symptom pattern.
    Funny, experimentation has shown otherwise.

    (33) The medicine must be both very similar in symptoms to the natural disease AND stronger than it.
    Yeah... sure, several PPM is strong.

    (35) Medicines which are not homeopathic will never cure any disease.
    LMAO. Acne, baldness, heart murmurs, radiation poisioning, CANCER,bone marrow illnesses, arthritis... etc etc. None work 100% of the time... but nothing does.

    (38) Two dissimilar diseases meeting in a person will compete such that the stronger will temporarily suppress and suspend the milder one until the stronger disease has run its course. Then, the milder disease reappears, uncured, to express its symptoms.
    Funny how I know people that have had 2 illnesses at once. They most be freaks of homeopathy

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    (54) Allopathy (Convention Medicine, in Hahnemann's time):
    (A). Allopathy generally uses speculation and scholastic arguments instead of observation of natural phenomena and experimentation.
    LMFAO. He claims allopaths don't experiment. Have you seen the list of research experiments modern medicine has performed FOR homepathy. Let alone thier own research.

    I'm sorry. That last one was just too much. My quack sense is tingling.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,671
    (38) Two dissimilar diseases meeting in a person will compete such that the stronger will temporarily suppress and suspend the milder one until the stronger disease has run its course. Then, the milder disease reappears, uncured, to express its symptoms.

    this is an easily explained miscoception, based on observing the symptoms of a ill person during the time in which this book was written. they may get a sickness, and display symptoms. medical doctors may then treat them. During the treatment, a second illness comes forth, which is more serious of an illness. The medical doctor will begin treating this one at the cost of treating the first; this one is the one to worry about now. The symptoms of the first (such as "runny nose") have been "overcome by the symptoms of the second (such as "coma"). The second illess is cured, and the first one "returns". ie, the runny nose comes back.

    It's not that the first illness just hung out, witing for the second one to go away! It's just that the less significant symptoms were then overlooked by physicians w/out the tools, knowledge or luxery of time to keep an eye on them. So it appears that the less noticable symptoms go away int he presence of the more serious illness.

    The same way that the stars "go away" during the day.

    This, however, doesn't mean that all of his theories were jack. Some are very accurate, and some are not. take what is still usefull, and put the rest aside. It may be usefull somewhere down the line, when scientist realise how foolish our science to day is.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    as for the seperation of symptoms vs cause: you are ignoring the environment in which this was written. During that time the symptoms and the cause was largely inseperable. If the symptoms were gone, then the cause for them was gone too. They had no e- microscopes back then, keep in mind.


    I'm am not backing this stuff as fact. it is largely wrong. however, the author based what he wrote on the knowledge he had at the time. there is still usefull info in there, you just have to be able to pull it out of the gunk. Some very basic things from this text will still hold true.

    Take, for example, this:
    (215) Almost ALL so-called mental or emotional diseases are nothing but physical diseases in which mental symptoms usually increase as the physical symptoms diminish, until the disease mental symptoms reach their most striking state of
    defectiveness.

    now, remove the gunk, and you have:
    (215) Almost ALL so-called mental or emotional diseases are nothing but physical diseases.

    Item 215 now agrees with modern medicine.
     
  8. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,793
    Err..To state the blindingly obvious.
    If homeopathy displayed any significant benefit then the pharmacutical industry would be all over it like a rash. If there's a dollar to be made then someone somewhere will not overlook the opportunity.
    Hey remember when asprin was a simple herbal remedy?
    See what I mean?
    Dee Cee
     
  9. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,671
  10. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    River Wind,

    Please give examples of it being inaccurate. Present some references here.

    I know of no case of "inaccuracy", though I have search virtually all the literature.

    The Pathology books I read say that antibiotics are becoming ineffective against disease and there is a need to find other ways - such as stimulating the body's own healing mechanisms to combat disease. Hahnemann's system, I believe, works in this way. He also cured nearly all the chronic diseases, considered "incurable" today...which affect many millions in the USA and UK, for instance.

    Dee Cee,

    Things must happen to get that ball rolling. Medical Science has problems with the very different philosophy, but the excuse used is that there is nothing in the medicine. Yet if any of you would buy a homeopathic medicine and take it yourself you would believe otherwise.

    Somebody influential in Medical Science must support Homeopathy for anyone to take notice. But it may cost them their credibility as scientists (and cut off their funding).

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2003
  11. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    River-Wind,

    I don't think it agrees with modern medicine, and I don't think your version is the same. The physical disease diminishes until it is gone, as far as symptomology is concerned (his yardstick). But it is now presenting only as a mental disease.
     
  12. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    River-Wind,

    I agree only in principle, but there is more to it. Hahnemann was a fully qualified doctor for 15 years before he broke away from conventional medicine in 1790. He then spent over 50 years working on and perfecting his new system.
    POINT 1: Kindly remember that this was a brilliant and extremely knowledgeable person. Certainly the most intelligent person I have ever encountered, thru his literature. POINT 2: Your runny nose/coma example was not a good one. Very REAL symptoms of one of the diseases would go away, such as skin rashes, measles, even terminal illnesses would suspend (until the dominating disease resolved, and the terminal illness then continued to death), so his perspective was not without merit: He gives a large number of examples to back this up. POINT 3: We must try to put ourselves in his shoes, and make the assumptions he stipulates. The symptoms ARE the disease as far as Physicians in those days were concerned. There was no means for them to know otherwise.

    Words like "Theory" and "Law" had a different meaning in Hahnemann's day. A motorcyle pulls away from the traffic lights quicker than a truck. A motorcycle comes off worse in a collision with a truck. These are the kind of "laws" Hahnemann was dealing with...everyday observations in life. He was a very practical man - had a degree in Chemistry as well as Medicine. Discovered and made all his medicines himself, and made them throughout his life..trusted no-one else to do it right. So, his "Theories" and "Laws" were his conclusions from his everyday observations of the medical world.

    A physicist may use the formulae for Momentum, Inertia, Acceleration to Scientifically PROVE the motorcycle examples, but laws of observation are instinctively understood by virtually all people - practical LAWS. Hahnemann saw many of these while treating sick people.

    Please elaborate on the "how foolish"," our science today is".
    Addressing things like this is high priority.

    Your "symptoms and causes" point puzzles me. Hahnemann would always first identify and remove any "exciting" cause that may be responsible before considering prescribing any medicine.

    "back then". Should remember that Hahnemann himself cured virtually all, if not all the diseases he was faced with, i.e., MANY more than conventional medicine today, especially the chronic diseases. THAT statement is my motivation on this topic. Looking for people to help on this. I believe it, because when someone says 100 things and you personally have established that 95 of them are FACT, then it is not unreasonable to believe that person was right about the other five as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2003
  13. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    Tim: Hahnemann did not cure any diseases. He just wrote a book. Reading one man's account of his own percieved deeds will not bring you anywhere.

    Hans
     
  14. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Hans,

    Where the devil have you been? What about the Bryonia? Frighten you off? But, it got rid of (Mr) Francine.

    My belief is based on many recent cases I have checked out. Led me to study Hahnemann and his system.
     
  15. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    I have had better things to do.

    Frighten? What for? However, I don't think the effects of Bryonia are well suited for an experiment. Too subjective. Find something that changes body temperature, surely that must exist, seing as feever is THE most universal presentation.

    Perhaps the requirement for independent validation of the preparation frightened YOU off?

    I'll tell you once more: Hahnemann's cases are irrelevant. For all we know, his works are pure fabrication. I know this is blunt, but that's how it is.

    And your recent cases are also irrelevant, unless you have independent verification, then they might become moderately interesting (but hardly proof of anything).

    Whatever tests you have made yourself, where you knew the expected results are uninteresting.

    Why do I have to keep spelling this out to you?

    Hans
     
  16. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Persol,

    List of baselsss assumptions:

    (9) The functioning body is not just "chemical".
    The living being operates on a "dynamic" principle, called the Vital Principle or Vital Force (VF).
    There is no evidence of the power which he grants the VF. His Vf is more akin to a 'lifeforce' then the immune system.

    These are not "assumptions", but a conceptual model in today's parlance. Don't blame him, blame ME for making that association between immune system and VF.

    (10) Without the VF everywhere present in the body, the "chemical" organism is unable to maintain itself and therefore dies.
    So he claims that only the chemical part dies? Proof? Science? Anything besides assumptions?

    No, I have shortened all these Aphorisms. Chemical organism and VP are inseparable, except to aid their comprehension. No, the VP does not live on.

    It is the controlling force, as dependant on the chemical organism as vice versa. Your points taken though. I will make this clear in an updated version of this ORGANON summary...bits always have to be dropped in a summary.

    If you want to see the actual Article/Aphorism, select its number here: (see 6th edition, not 5th edition). But the best translation, which I use, is not online.

    http://www.homeoint.org/books/hahorgan/


    (11) When a man falls ill, the VF becomes "untuned" by the "dynamic" influence of the disease agent.
    So he wants to replace the words ill and sick with 'untuned'. Doesn't actually say anything but make it sound catchy.

    No comment.

    (12) The VF then brings about the disagreeable sensations and abnormal functions called disease accessible to the senses of patient and doctor, and which represent the "whole" disease. Conversely, the disappearance of all perceptible deviations from health, means the VF has recovered its normal integrity.

    Proof? No proof, no assumptions..only a conceptual model.

    (13) Disease, excluding surgical cases, is NOT an entity hidden in the interior of the organism, separate from its living totality,

    Funny, no evidence of this... but plenty that disease IS caused by external agents.

    But, what happens when it gets into the body? How does it cause disease, and how does the body manage/mismanage it?Have you heard of Koch's postulates?
    .http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A100537AB9/allBySubject/45B5C640DEF4C15AC1256B45003DA80D

    There is in fact no scientific proof that many bacteria are actually responsible for certain diseases, though we do attribute the cause to them.
    During the management of disease, it is the body that actually produces all the symptoms - never the disease agent.

    "NOT an entity hidden in the interior of the organism, separate from its living totality" is right in the sense that the immune system response involves many systemic as well as local activities...the whole, diffuse, immune system is involved in managing that disease.


    (14) There is no curable disease that does not announce itself through subjective and objective symptoms.
    That is commonsense. It's not much of a disease if it doesn't have any symptoms.

    "Au contraire, mon ami". People can die without presenting symptoms until the last moment....these are the worst diseases because it means the body was unaware and could not defend itself. The "common sense" part is the way Hahnemann develops the concept, in simple steps. He next says that the total symptom patterns are unique to each disease.

    (21) Medicines can cure disease only if they possess the power to alter the way a person feels and functions. Indeed, it is ONLY because of this power that they are medicines at all.
    Completely ignoring plenty of medicines which attack the CAUSE, not the symptoms... of sorry... VF.

    He is talking about his own medical system, the homeopathic method, and this works on the "like symptoms treat like symptoms" philosophy. Therefore, the homeopathic medicine's only value is the symptoms it produces. (Their internal effects, however, may be very different).

    (22) Administered properly potentised in small doses, the medicine will rapidly and permanently destroy the totality of symptoms in the patient and therefore the disease.

    Proof? I hope we will get to that. Hahnemann cured thousands of patients, but Hans reminds me that this is irrelevant now. I have a bunch of ideas which should settle this matter, eventually.

    (26) A natural law of Homeopathy: In living organisms, a weaker dynamic affection is permanently extinguished by a stronger one (in this case, the medicine) which, though different in nature, greatly resembles it in expression.

    So people can't have 2 illnesses at a time. Yeah, sure, lol. I guess the VF gets confused and says 'only so much sickness at a time'.

    That was covered by answer to River-Wind. See above. Try to be specific.

    (32) On the other hand, medicines (conceptually "artificial diseases") affect EVERY person, EVERY time, to bring about its characteristic symptom pattern.
    Funny, experimentation has shown otherwise.

    I think not. Specify experimentation. I am referring to Homeopathic medicines, properly prescribed and administered.

    (33) The medicine must be both very similar in symptoms to the natural disease AND stronger than it.
    Yeah... sure, several PPM is strong.

    (35) Medicines which are not homeopathic will never cure any disease.

    LMAO. Acne, baldness, heart murmurs, radiation poisioning, CANCER,bone marrow illnesses, arthritis... etc etc. None work 100% of the time... but nothing does.

    You've got some odd ones in there, e.g., arthritis, cancer, baldness. Need to be more specific, if you state diseases like this.
    Anyway, we are discussing Hahnemann's book/perspective, aren't we?


    (38) Two dissimilar diseases meeting in a person will compete such that the stronger will temporarily suppress and suspend the milder one until the stronger disease has run its course. Then, the milder disease reappears, uncured, to express its symptoms.

    Funny how I know people that have had 2 illnesses at once. They most be freaks of homeopathy.

    Again, you need to be specific. Hahnemann gave MANY examples. That point was addressed by answer to River-Wind. See prev.post.

    (54) Allopathy (Convention Medicine, in Hahnemann's time):
    (A). Allopathy generally uses speculation and scholastic arguments instead of observation of natural phenomena and experimentation.
    LMFAO. He claims allopaths don't experiment. Have you seen the list of research experiments modern medicine has performed FOR homepathy. Let alone thier own research.

    I'm sorry. That last one was just too much. My quack sense is tingling

    Well, Hahnemann was not a fortune-teller. He was referring to the Allopaths of his day. Hahnemann spent nearly all his time on practicalities. Re. "observation of natural phenomena and experimentation", these were Hahnemann's life..he DID THINGS as opposed to talking about them too much. He then wrote up the observations on which he based his "theories".

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2003
  17. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Hans,

    What about a skin rash, would that do?

    Calm down old chap, it was not a complaint. Where's your sense of humour?

    Tell me one last time.

    Hahnemann's books are the foundations of this task. Cannot ignore them. There is a great deal of historical fact attached to Hahnemann's work ( i.e., written by historians, not homeopaths).

    I did not know the expected results when I took Bryonia. That test would be good just to illustrate that they DO SOMETHING THAT THE PATIENT IS CLEARLY AWARE OF. Either YES or NO from the patient, or a scale from 1 to 10.

    We must discuss things first. I am not working on this full-time. You cannot just hand out advice and instructions and expect me to go off and do things. You must participate more.

    Where in the World are you? (Don't worry, I'm not going to poison everybody in your country - you have .dk on your homepage... Deutschland/Germany, I think.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2003
  18. Francine Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    38

    .dk

    Denmark! Do try to keep up with the the 21st century.

    Cheers

    F.x
     
  19. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Come back Hans, all is forgiven.

    (It's just that Hahnemannian (Albert) and I are members of the provisional wing of the H.L.F. (Homeopathy Liberation Front), so there is no need for you to be suspicious of us).
     
  20. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    Forgiven?? You get weirder and weirder.

    I dont give a hoot about what you use, its YOUR experiment. But the more objective the indication, the smaller number of testees, you need, and the les cost will incur. Simple as that. Since the normal distribution for body temperature is quite narrow, it will not require a great change to be stastistically significant. Not so with skin rashes; I expect you can find a skin rash somewhere on the body of 50% of the population.

    However, it remains essential that it can be verified that the preparation is indeed a correctly made homeopathic drug.

    When you tried it yourself, how did you verify that? Did you just take somebody's word for it? In that case, you have no idea what you took.

    My sense of humor is what makes me keep talking to you.

    The prescriptions in H's books are what is under test, so you are not asked to ignore them. But his theses and anecdotes are irrelevant.

    That said, at such time as you might prove that homeopathic drugs have an effect, you will still have a long way to go: Proving that they can cure diseases. But at that time, I'm sure you will have the attention of the scientific community

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .

    Yes, I'm in Denmark (with a comforting half planet between me and certain lunatics

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    )

    Hans
     
  21. timokay Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Hans,

    Danes have absolutely no sense of humour at all. Proven here.
    You misunderstand the task being addressed here. Doing a single test will prove nothing to anyone...must first understand the whole picture.

    Not so comforting - I live in Britain, not far from Gatwick Airport. Copenhagen is not far away, at all.

    http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/Copenhagen/Gatwick-LGW/

    http://www.gatwick-airport-parking-services.co.uk/flights-from-gatwick-to-denmark.shtml

    Or, if you are near Vojens:

    http://www.flightfile.com/flights/to/vojens/from/gatwick.htm

    I don't see Vojens on the map...must be a little place.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2003
  22. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    Hans
     
  23. MRC_Hans Skeptic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    827
    OK, I have taken the time to look through Tim's two initial posts. I have added my comments.

    (perhaps you should not read this, Tim)

    So, to sum it up, Homeopathy is based on a semi-religious thesis that has been contradicted by science. It jumps to conclusions not logically following from the original thesis. It uses an understanding of diseases that has been showed to be wrong, and it finally bases preparation of medicine on a method that has no theoretical basis.

    Hans
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page