The Obama File

Discussion in 'Politics' started by eyeswideshut, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    What do you think about that?
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    This is just more Republican politics by threat and intimidation.
     
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  5. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Please, treat us to some more totally-unsupported, obviously self-serving assertions about the perspectives, expectations and understandings of millions of people you've never met. It's totally working.
     
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  7. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Do I think there will be civil war if Mr. Obama is re-elected? No.

    As to Mr Head, well...

    Consider the fact that conservatives in this country are extremely fired up right now. Look at the Chick Fil-a incident which had people lining up all over the country to support Chick Fil-a. My local mall had people lined up and waiting for hours. Or the incident in which a baker refused to have Biden come by for a photo op. Once word got out, the bakery was sold out of dough by lunch! Romney and Ryan are met by giant, enthusiastic crowds everywhere they go (kind of like Obama, back in 2008).

    Conservatives are chomping at the bit to do something to express their disapproval of the way the country is being run. Should the Republicans lose despite this extremely high level of enthusiasm there will be a lot of disappointment and even some anger.

    Now Mr. Head comes from a very conservative part of Texas and probably only interacts with people of a like mind. To him, the very possibility of President Obama being re-elected despite the fact that everyone he knows not only strongly opposes Obama, but is worked up and motivated to get out and vote would serve as defacto evidence of voter fraud on a massive scale. Thus the people would be justified in rising up against him. Therefore, should Obama win, he wouldn't be surprised to see civil war and wants to be prepared for it.

    And he's not the only one:

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    The Virginia Republican Newsletter went so far as to call for armed rebellion if Obama is re-elected:

    President Obama, is a “political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized,” and that the only option is “armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November:” If one is confused as to what Republicans consider is a “political socialist ideologue,” the newsletter claims President Obama “shuns biblical praise, handicaps economic ability, disrespects the honor of earned military might,” and that under Obama, “the government is out of control, and this opportunity, must not be forsaken for we shall not have any coarse (sic) but armed revolution.”​


    Once this statement was noticed it was taken down and the party has disavowed any knowledge of it. Nevertheless, you can see that a lot of conservatives are quite engaged with this election. I suspect this stuff is all just heat of the moment rhetoric. Let's hope these people channel their energies into get out the vote efforts rather than stocking up on guns and ammo.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, we are well aware of the fanatical right wing and their threats.
     
  9. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    So you agree that Mr. Head is out of touch and paranoid. But apparently you also think that his perspective represents something substantial that we all need to deal with. What is it?

    More to the point, a very isolated, out-of-the-way part of Texas. And, by your own admission there, this guy is cloistered and out of touch with the electorate in general. So why should we respond to his crazy views with anything other than dismissal as irrelevancies?

    You really think he's that stupid and out of touch? That he is unable to read news and poll results, and simply imagines that the entire country thinks just like his personal buddies out in west Texas? Or, maybe except for a few evil liberal enclaves in NYC and San Francisco?

    If so, then how is that anything other than an argument for dismissing him out of hand as irrelevant? Your focus on this guy's views seems to imply that they represent something substantial that we need to come to grips with. Are you implying that this is the standard conservative ideation in America these days? Because you're in the middle of arguing that this guy is out of touch, paranoid, and violent. Not that such is an implication I'd resist applying to conservatives in general these days - myself and others have been making exactly that point quite forcefully for literally years now - but it's strange to see you get on board with that. But then the fact that you're presenting this as something that your audience doesn't already know suggests that you have some other implication in mind - what could it be?

    I note that that is sounding kind of close to a sideways threat. It's not "if Obama gets re-elected, we'll rise up and rebel." But it is treating that sentiment as widespread and understandable and - most importantly - serious and imminent. The point, it seems, is to suggest an element of threat. To assert that the country will be literally ripped apart by violence and rebellion if Obama is re-elected. Which, again, plenty of posters here have been noting and objecting to the paranoia and extremism coming from the right in recent years for some time - but you seem to stop short of actual condemnation. Instead, it's "engagement" with the election. This seems to work to shield the violent paranoiacs from condemnation: they aren't extremist wack-jobs who need to be marginalized and shut down, but simply "politically engaged" conservatives, whom we'd best not offend the civic enthusiasm of.

    So it is your contention that this kind of ideation is broadly representative of the "engaged conservative" segment of the electorate, and not that Head is some kind of lone nut-job.

    Again, the sideways threat - you "suspect" (but can't be sure) that they don't mean it literally, but still it would be best for everyone if they manage to "get out the vote" (and so, defeat Obama at the ballot box) so that we won't have to find out.

    Basically, it looks like so much of an intimidation campaign. Apparently, we'd best just tank this election and get rid of Obama, lest the right-wing militias rise up against Socialism and start a civil war. Maybe they wouldn't really do it, but do we really want to find out? The strange thing, again, is how much the underlying characterization of the conservative movement as paranoid, out-of-touch reactionaries has in common with standard left-wing criticism of such - the only difference seems to be the implication about what we should do about such.

    At any rate, there's nothing new here. These exact same types have been saying the exact same things - and hording guns and ammo - since 2008. I say fuck 'em.
     
  10. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Fat chance, they are currently trying their best to suppress the vote through unnecessary voter ID laws. If only there was some way to encourage voting that left out blacks and minorities...
     
  11. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    The photo ID needed to vote question / discussion is a few pages back but here is an update:

    Republicans fear most of those 9% would vote Democratic, so speak of voter fraud as if it were even 0.1% of the vote as the great problem the photo ID would solve (not that 9% will lose a right).
     
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes let's all submit to the whims of right wing militias, better to live under tyranny and in fear than in a democracy and without fear. This is the message from the extreme elements of the American right wing. In its simplest form it is a temper tantrum, but in this case the miscreant kids have guns.

    Fortunately, Americans have never reacted well to threats and intimidation. I don’t expect they will buy this crap either. I certainly won’t.
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    See Also ....

    See also "Rep. Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny): Pennsylvania Voter ID Laws Intended to Help Romney":

    The apparent underlying philosophy is that Obama's victory in 2008 could only have been fraudulent. Which means some 620,478 people, at least, fraudulently voted for Barack Obama ....

    .... Certes, one might point out that if there were several hundred thousand fraudulent votes cast in Pennsylvania's 2008 general election, we would have heard about it by now. As it is, though, instead of the approximately 10.35% fraud rate derived from the Pennsylvania results, spokesman Miskin has cited an incident suggesting vote fraud at a rate just over .00000003%.​

    I would also note that it is interesting how, in the thread about voter suppression, the conservative response was to talk about Obamacare, but in this, the Obama File, there is so much focus on voter suppression.

    That is to say, it is an interesting posture. When the question is voter suppression, complain about health care. When the question is Obama, complain about vote fraud. It almost seems easier to discuss voter suppression in the voter suppression thread, and Obama in the Obama thread; then again, I've always been naïve like that.
     
  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    A pretty effective ad I came across:

    [video=youtube;6yD43OrcjDI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yD43OrcjDI&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

    And a billboard:

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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I think not. I think it is counter productive for the Republican cause because it appeals only to those who don´t know the facts:
    Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama? See chart below.
    It will tend to give over confidence to the Republican "True Believers" who are ignorant of the facts and believe the false ones presented.

    With ads like that, some may be so confident of victory that they don´t bother to vote. - I.e. is a "counter productive ad."

    A productive ad is one that appeals to women, minorities, etc. (Voters where Mitt is far behind Obama) - Mitt´s acceptance speech last night is more like what Republicans need. Too many, well north of a majority, blame GWB and Republicans in general who want more tax relief for the very rich, who built the modern factories in China and destroyed US jobs for the current economic problems, not Obama who inherited them and is adding jobs faster than GWB did but still has not been able to drag the US out of GWB´s second recession.
    Obama has

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    This bar chart is from Forbes, hardly a left leaning source!

    Note also, Clinton, (both terms) is much lower than any Republican too. I.e. It is the Republican POTUSs who spent the little girl´s lunch money - put her in deep debt.
    Those FACTS however are no problem with with "True Believers" like you. They will continue to support more tax relief for the "job creators" and ignore the fact that those jobs are in the more modern factories they built in China, which actually closed US factories or at least forced more "out sourcing" for US factories to compete!

    PS I´ll be voting for Mitt, as I worked too hard for civil rights for Blacks in early 60s to have GWB´s depression come when a Black man is POTUS.
    That coming depression, which I forecast while GWB was still POTUS, is 100% "Republican made." - Give credit where it is due, I always say.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2012
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    You’re absolutely correct Billy T. Ads like those displayed by Mad play to the Republican base which remains grossly misinformed by the Republican media. It seems the Republican Party is playing to ignorance. Clearly they will lie, cheat and steal to attain their goals regardless of the cost to the American public.

    I have never seen so much fabrication and misrepresentation as witnessed in the Republican Convention that ended yesterday. Republicans clearly are desperate and cannot make a case for their election while being honest.
     
  18. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes there was a lot of lying and distortion presented at RNC last night. For example:

    All quotes below from Bloomberg in article entitled: "Romney Misleads on Obama Health Cost: Reality Check"
    Read full article at: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ama-health-cost-misleading-reality-check.html

    "... The facts:
    Connecting current inflation in health care to the new law, which doesn’t take full effect until 2014, is a stretch*. Health-care costs have been rising faster than prices in general for many years, though the pace has been slowing recently, in part because of the recession. Health costs rose 3.4 percent in 2010 from 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, while the U.S. inflation rate was 1.6 percent.

    Obama’s health-care law cuts future Medicare costs by more than $700 billion over 10 years, in part by reducing payments to hospitals and insurance companies, including those that provide costlier Medicare Advantage plans. ... The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that repeal of the law would increase the federal deficit by $100 billion over 10 years. ..."

    But Romney said:
    "...We must rein in the skyrocketing cost of health care by repealing and replacing Obamacare. ..."

    *No it is not a "stretch." - it is illogical simple lying.
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    You can keep peddling that bullshit, no one believes it. The spending in 2009 hit a historic high water mark. It was passed by a Democratic House & Senate with little Republican support. Obama, who supported every bit of that spending, then used what was supposed to be a one time uptick during an emergency and used it as his new baseline. He has continued to run annual deficits in excess of a trillion dollars each and every year of his irresponsible presidency.

    He is the most profligate spender in US if not world history.
     
  20. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed.

    US Debt Soars By $54 Billion Overnight, Closes May At Record $15,770,685,085,364.10

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    And the bigger picture:

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    But he's no different than Romney. He's in leagues with the Fed and the international banking cartel. All that cash is going to the IMF and the BIS to bail out Europe. When it goes, the dollar will, and we'll have no elections and martial law. So who really gives a rat's ass. These partisan politics and false Hegelian dialectics are a distraction, they are like the musicians on the Titanic while the ship is sinking. . .
    [video=youtube;7XPGsWkkups]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPGsWkkups[/video]
     
  21. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for reminding us how resistant to facts right wing authoritarians are. Viral Facebook post says Barack Obama has lowest spending record of any recent president, rated Mostly True by PolitiFact.
     
  22. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Not true.

    Obama is such a spendthrift that his most recent budget proposal was voted down unanimously in both the house and the Democratic controlled Senate.

    With Romney, we at least have a chance of getting our spending under control. That, combined with the increased economic activity we will see when the boot of Obama's unreasonable regulations is taken off the throat of our business community should bring the deficit back down to sustainable levels and get us off the suicidal course Obama has us on.

    Sure, Romney is far from perfect. But the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. Romney is a step in the right direction.
     
  23. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, you go on and believe that. Just like that Obama supporters believed he would do away with the foreign wars, gitmo, the patriot act, and bring hope and change. Romney is a step in the same direction. If you seriously believed electoral politics would change anything the tune you would be singing would be Gary Johnson. Mitt is a shill and you know it. Look at how he treated the primary process. Is that how you want him to treat the country? I certainly don't.
     

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