The Obama Bear Market

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Buffalo Roam, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    US stocks when measured in other currencies and commodities have been in a bear market since 2000. When priced in gold the DOW was as of 1/2008 down 70% since its peak in 2000. The Republican attempt to blame Obama's current policies, which I agree are very bad, for the general downturn only serves to hide the deeper reasons for our economic problems. The bust we're seeing now is inevitable and was predictable during the Bush years. It's only Obama's bad luck that it landed on his lap instead of W's.
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    This is quite simply a partisan thread. There is no way a reasonable person could blame Obama for stock market performance in the first few days of his administration. Too do so reflects an astounding ignorance of economics, leadership, history, and organzations.
     
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  5. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    The 2 Republicans of the Forum coming out of the bomb shelter??? Hey it is 8 more years, go back and play cards or something...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2009
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  7. desi Valued Senior Member

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    I think Obama could have stopped the market slide cold if he had cut taxes and decreased government spending. If he placed tariffs on imports he might not have even had to cut spending while helping American workers be more competitive for global jobs.

    Obama did make things worse by diluting the value of the dollar with his crazy big spending bill, and talks of big tax increases for the people who employ other people.
     
  8. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    You guys, this was an economic emergency like we haven't seen since 1929. This is not business as usual. Obama and the Democrats' actions may have prevented a total economic collapse (or at least delayed it).

    Please stop blaming Fannie and Freddie. The cause is complex, but loaning money to poor people was not a major factor. Much more significant were the packaging of loans into bundles and spreading the risk around the world.
     
  9. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    So you believe that Obama:
    • Despite his unprecedented levels of deficit spending on track to exceed that of all prior administrations combined
    • Despite his "cap and trade" scheme that amounts to a gigantic tax increase on every American and will stifle economic growth forever if passed
    • Despite his plan to repeal the Bush tax cuts during a recession (depression)
    • Despite continuing uncertainty about what this administration intends to do on a variety of subjects which is hanging over the business community like the sword of Domacles leaving businesses afraid to make a move.
    Despite all that, and his general anti-business attitude, you actually believe Obama bears no responsibility whatsoever for that portion of the economic decline that has occured since he took office? I'm not saying he started the crisis. Obviously it was well underway before he took office. I am saying that he is making all the wrong moves since he has taken office. You previously mentioned that in 1920 the depression lasted only one year, but in the 1930's the combination of FDR's and Hoover's attempts to rescue the economy caused the problem to drag on for a decade.

    Isn't Obama doing the same damned thing? How can you not hold him responsible for that? Again, I'm not pinning the blame for precipitating the crisis on Obama. That would be absurd. But it's equally absurd to ignore his ham fisted handling of the situation and to deny that his efforts are going to make things much worse and cause te crisis to go on for much longer than it needed to.
     
  10. draqon Banned Banned

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    35,006
    This thread is yet another drive by Republican oriented people, who just dont care that the Democratic president saved the national from total meltdown set by non other but Republican *****.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And then we get into generalities and more Republican nonsense. Obama has meet with a variety of business leaders including the CEO of my corporation. He has recieved the backing of a number of CEOs from major corporations. That is hardly antibusiness. Are there some businesses that don't like what they are seeing, yes. Are there some investors who do not like Obama, absoutely.

    Those in the business community who do not like Obama are in the healthcare and oil industries. Gee I wonder why thy don't like Obama? Could it be that Obama has told them enough feeding at the public trough they need to go out into the world and compete in open markets? I am sure that is very fearful for them. But it is a good thing for business overall. It is a good thing to reduce the burden of healthcare from more than 15% to something more in line with what other countries are paying 5-7 percent.

    Bottome line this is just more partisan nonsense trying to bring down the nation and Obama to protect their political and economic interests that have run rampant throughout the world for the last decade. It is good to see these interests get the comeupance as my grandmother would say.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    We have bloody mess on our hands courtesty of George II, limbaugh, and his Republicans. Now we need to fix it. And as Obama has said, it will get worse before it gets better. There is thing called inertia; a moving object does not stop all at once. It takes time. And this economy has a lot of downward momentum built up from a decade of neglect and corruption. It will not be reversed in a day, a week, or a month...perhaps not even a year (depending on how Republicans in the Senate behave). I am greatly sadened to see Republicans trying to pull the nation down in order to obtain political power. Ultimately I think they will kill the party and I don't think that is a bad thing. But there does need to be constructive counterweight to the Democrats. I wonder what will be.
     
  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    It goes all the way back to Reagan, who virtually deregulated the finance industry.
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Sure, Obama and the Democrats bear no responsibilty whatsoever. Tell me, at what point will you finally admit that Obama is mismanaging the economy? In 2010? 2011? 2012? Ever?

    Well, a growing number of people are reaching the opposite conclusion:
    some economists and lawmakers are beginning to question whether Obama's agenda of increased government activism is helping, or hurting, by sowing uncertainty among businesses, investors and consumers that could prolong the recession.

    Although the administration likes to say it "inherited" the recession and trillion-dollar deficits, the economic wreckage has worsened on Obama's still-young watch.

    Every day, the economy is becoming more and more an Obama economy.

    • Many health care stocks are down because of fears of new government restrictions and mandates as part a health care overhaul.
    • Private student loan providers were pounded because of the increased government lending role proposed by Obama.
    • Industries that use oil and other carbon-based fuels are being shunned, apparently in part because of Obama's proposal for fees on greenhouse-gas polluters.
    • Makers of heavy road-building and other construction equipment have taken a hit, partly because of expectations of fewer public works jobs here and globally than first anticipated.

    "We've got a lot of scared investors and business people. I think the uncertainty is a real killer here," said Chris Edwards, director of fiscal policy for the libertarian Cato Institute.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hzxMIm4EJQJddvV_ZHPkN1pw8nJwD96P7RC80
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2009
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It's time people realised that without an environment, there is no economy.
     
  16. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    That comment seems out of left field. We're discussing the Obama administration's economic policy, not environmental policy. I suppose you might be obliquely referring to my opposition to Obama's support for 'cap and trade', but, if so, I strongly object to the idea that without cap and trade the environment will be destroyed. Frankly, the primary effect will be economic. Any effect on global temperature will be so insignificant as to be immeasurable.

    But, this is not the place for such a discussion. If you want to discuss the effectiveness of cap and trade on the environment, start a thread on that. Here, we're discussing its economic impact which will undoubtably be negative to the extreme.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What's the S&P index like?
     
  18. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Please listen Mad...Obama is on target and has accomplished more than any other new administration walking into such a huge mess. Thus far I am impressed with the speed this administration as acted. He is on the right path, but there will be a few bumps in the road. Contrary to Republican general opinion, he is not the messiah, just a man.
     
  20. zombieflirt Registered Member

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    Obama is going to pull us out of this one. he has an excellent economic team. we need to be patient.
     
  21. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I agree he's spent more than any other administration in US history, but thusfar all the trillions of dollars he has spent have served only to further drive down the market. Obama is Jimmy Carter on steriods. Get ready for hyper-stagflation.
     
  22. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    It occurs to me that exactly such a wish (it's far too early to even call description an "opinion," let alone a "fact") is what underlies the rejectionism from the Republicans ("I hope he fails," etc.). They seem to be praying that Obama will be a rerun of the Carter administration, which will demoralize the left and thus result in some kind of replay of the Reagan administration starting in 2012. The criticism of Obama's policies reflect not so much a reasoned conviction that they are inappropriate (indeed, their man in the White House was pushing more or less the same remedies before his term expired), but a hope that the recession is so bad, and so prolonged, that it eats up Obama's popularity and gives them another shot at the White House.

    They seem oblivious to how cynical and craven this makes them look, not to mention the fact that Bush was the right-wing equivalent of Carter, in terms of his effects on popular political sentiment. Which is to say that if this process has an analogy in the present, Obama is the insurgent uniter, while the Republicans are the discredited chumps. So it's not surprising that they are out for blood already, without so much as a pretense of consideration or introspection.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    If this is an Obama Bear Market, bring it on!!!

    Now the market is starting to see signs of recovery...funny it is just now that the stimulus money is begining to hit the street.

    What happened to all of you doom and gloom Republicans? I have not heard a one word for a week now.
     

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