The Nature of Racism in America

An argument is not merely presenting one supposed fact. How can you use the word "fallacy" so much and not have any understanding at all of argument structure?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

So racism is everywhere in the world, is what you're saying?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Mod Hat ― Closure & redirect Update

Having explicitly acknowledged, in another thread, racism as a motive, our neighbor Over 9000 will not be returning. Then again, most of us didn't need the explicit acknowledgment.

It is one thing to point out argumentative errors like presuming random strings of words actually comprise some manner of argumentation, but neither do we intend to hand the bigot squads advice on what to do next time they decide to troll us.

Racism is unacceptable at Sciforums. Deliberate promotion of racism even more so.

Apparently, some people need reminders:

• Skip the bigotry. Pretending naïveté does not a proper excuse make. And, you know, just to cover this point because, you know, bigots aren't smart about such things, don't bother trying to find a proper excuse. Such excuses are so few and far between that people can tell when you're calculating to dance unnaturally through a perceived gap in the rhetoric. It's kind of like the idea that you're not simply walking down the street minding your own business if you're walking down the street telling everyone to watch you walk down the street minding your own business. Some maneuvers are just that clumsy, and, yes, analogously speaking, some people really are dumb enough to try. And think of it this way: Out of all the idiots to come before you, just how do you presume that you are the one idiot who can undertake such a doomed venture and succeed?​

Closed and redirected to Cesspool.

Updated: Oh, yeah, that wasn't one of the banned racist's threads. At any rate, we're back to EM&J for the moment. Don't get too comfortable, though; this one is headed to the Cesspool for its own lack of merit shortly enough. (21 Oct. 2015 08.52 PDT)​

​

​

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

No one is equal because no two people are the same.

People should have equal OPPORTUNITIES, though. You should be able to go as far as your desire to work, your intelligence, your strength, your wisdom, your talent, your courage etc can take you. In some places we are getting pretty close to that; here in the US, for example, we have come a long, long way since blacks were denied schooling simply because they were black. We still have a ways to go, but we are going in the right direction.

If you assume someone cannot achieve what someone else can based purely on their race, you are a racist.

 

I was hoping to borrow this for a moment because there was a bit earlier in the thread↑―

―that reminds of the problem with the argument for omitting history from consideration↑:

• If people are supposed to make a certain choice, then that is the choice. Omitting history pretends without reason that the choices facing people in the past, or even today, are remotely equal in this context.​

The way it has worked in my lifetime is that more traditionalistic attitudes have tended toward a weird standard of acknowledging equality, but essentially expecting that it changes nothing. That is to say, they might say equality but they still functionally―to be specific, by their own choices―support and advocate inequality. In the twenty-first century, though, it has become nearly slapstick; the idea that some of the supremacy-as-equality advocates (e.g., Kim Davis is the most blatant example in this context) can actually believe the stuff they say seems extraordinary. The idea that we can't be equal unless I have supremacy over you seems inherently contradictory.

But this is what our neighbors are working toward. Well, okay, there's that word again, seems. It seems this is what they're after. They need to find a way to acknowledge equality while preserving functional inequality.

It's not so much that these two think they're clever; this is how the bigots have done it for most of my lifetime, and before that they didn't really need such maneuvers. But, yeah: Women, blacks, hispanics, Muslims, homosexuals, transgender―it's all pretty much the same supremacist expectation.

And it's not equality when they get their way.

 

I was hesitant to reenter this conversation because of the emotional content, but I'll give it another stab.

Where blacks are concerned, what more can we do to level the playing field, Tiassa. If there is truly institutional racism, please, point to it.

I understand that drug laws have made criminals of many blacks, but I also believe those drug laws were intended to protect the community as a whole. As liberal as I may be regarding recreational drugs, I can't ignore the negative impact that some drugs have on a community. I don't believe that drug laws were intended to victimize the black community specifically, yet the drug trade appears to be a problem for that community.

Police brutality? Yeah, it does happen. Do you really believe it is the norm? Straight up, are cops just racists?

As for the disadvantages of being a minority, well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States

Unconscious Bias? I suppose that if we want to chase phantoms, we can just assume all white people are racists without knowing it. Doesn't seem very productive, in my opinion.

White Privileged? I suppose that's possible, but what I've seen is that people are generally judged on their character rather than their skin color. I suppose had I never worked alongside a black, Asian, Latino, Woman, and, yes, a Homosexual, I might agree with you. My experience is that those who take advantage of the opportunities available will succeed. Capitalism really doesn't care about the color of your skin, gender, or sexuality. What it cares about is what you bring to the table.

Yep, the history of racism is bad. We all agree. Are Americans still deeply racist? No. If you feel some agonizing guilt for being white; I mean, if you can't get past some internalized feeling of racism, fine. Just don't project it on the rest of us.

 

The main problem with affirmative action is, it punishes/rewards people of the present, for mistakes that happened before most of the people were born. This is an example of super racism, since it assumes a timeless link to race, that perpetuates for generations. The Democrats think in divided and racist terms since it is original party of racism.

One can see this same thinking as the perpetual source of problems in the Middle East. Countries react to each other, today, with ancient grudges, as though racism, is a proven fact of life. This forever makes the people of the present, responsible for the past, through a type of reincarnation process. If you believe in reincarnation, and white and blacks are perpetually reincarnated, into the same color, this might make sense. It would mean that the you of today, was a reincarnation of the evil you or victim you from the past. This appeals those who are conditioned to be racist; defined by biology.

To get rid of racism, the dividing line needs to be character versus without character. There are people of both types in all demographics. There are Democrats and Republicans, black and white and male and female of character. Such people do not victimize each other but use different criteria.

If we did it this way, the dividing line would be good against evil, and rational versus irrational. The people of character can more easily accept each other, while the people who lack character and who choose to stay irrational ,will default back to superficial divisions. This makes it easier for the people of character to disrupt racism.

 

The enforcement of stop and frisk in New York City.

The behavior of the police department in Ferguson, Missouri - their manner of enforcing the law.

Trayvon Martin's shooting, and its handling by the police department as well as the media (portrayal as a thug, etc, as justification).

And so forth.

Drug law enforcement appears to be a problem for black communities, but not white ones. Never mind the drugs, or the laws, which are the same for all: - - the enforcement. Why?

 

I agree with you here. Years ago the same thing happened to me. As far as I'm concerned it's unconstitutional.

Okay, can you offer some more details?

And George Zimmerman was found innocent of any wrongdoing. We can go into the specifics regarding the incident. In a nutshell, Zimmerman approached Martin as a suspicious character in his neighborhood. Martin attacked Zimmerman and then was shot by Zimmerman in self defense. My question, was Martin justified in attacking Zimmerman who simply asked him what he was doing? I mean, if someone was pounding your head into the pavement and you had a gun, what would you do?

So, a white guy selling heroin or meth on the street corner of a white neighborhood wouldn't draw the attention of the police?

 

I just want to say a little more about this. If Zimmerman had stopped you or me on the street, our response probably would have been F.... Off, and we would have continued on our way. The situation becomes serious when one person puts their hands on the other person. Did Zimmerman single out Martin because he was black? Only Zimmerman knows the truth of that question. Even if he had, that still wouldn't be an excuse to attack him.

 

Welcome to the real world of today. White people have the default culture and the entire culture taught (often indirectly) that minorities are not as good as white people for decades. So now we have people who grew up in this culture, where white people had all kinds of benefits from this set up, even if we don't count the benefits of slavery for white people.

And now white people whine whenever someone wants to take away all the advantages they have over others.

Again, saying this is part of a very viscous racist lie, since in the 1960s the most ardent and outspoken racists left the Democratic Party for the Republican Party where they were welcomed with open arms and made the center of their electoral strategy for almost 60 years. You know this, but you continue to tell this lie.

 

It is both productive and true. We live in a society where prejudice is built in, it doesn't even require the participation of overt racists.

"
Much as Jim Crow racism served as the glue for defend-
ing a brutal and overt system of racial oppression in the pre–Civil Rights
era, color-blind racism serves today as the ideological armor for a covert
and institutionalized system in the post–Civil Rights era. And the beauty
of this new ideology is that it aids in the maintenance of white privilege
without fanfare, without naming those who it subjects and those who it
rewards. It allows a president to state things such as, ‘‘I strongly support
diversity of all kinds, including racial diversity in higher education,’’ yet,
at the same time, to characterize the University of Michigan’s affirmation
action program as ‘‘flawed’’ and ‘‘discriminatory’’ against whites.

Thus whites enunciate positions that safeguard their racial interests without
sounding ‘‘racist.’’ Shielded by color blindness, whites can express resent-
ment toward minorities; criticize their morality, values, and work ethic;
and even claim to be the victims of ‘‘reverse racism.’’ This is the thesis I
will defend in this book to explain the curious enigma of ‘‘racism without
racists.’’
"

https://anth1001.files.wordpress.co...ty_in_the_united_states_2nd_edition__2006.pdf

 

Some liberals would have you believe that all "white people" are racists.
Some women would have you believe that all men are sexists.
.....................................................................................................................

There was once a printer who never recycled any of his stereotypes.
So his collection continued to grow over the years of his career.
By the time that he was an old man nearing the end of his career, he had amassed well over 45,000 stereotypes.
One day, the floor made a creaking and popping sound just before it collapsed.
And, because the joist had not been firecut, they brought the walls down on top of him. ................ (ending his career and life)

There seems to be a moral somewhere in there?
.........................................................................
for those of you who didn't "get it"
(stereotype and cliche are synonymous printer's terms)

 

Yeah. We get it. You think that you are perfect and the white people think rationally and, somehow, escape all the influences of culture and history that surround them.

 

A: Do not accuse me of perfection nor delusions thereto.

B: as/re "white people think rationally" .....................sounds like exceptionalism to me
and is most likely grossly inaccurate.

(hell dad, I ain't even convinced that you are wholly rational)

 

As culture. Man migrated from Africa 50000 years ago. Question Is there much difference between European culture, technology the one that culture of African that never left Africa ?

 

On the technological level, no. You do know that people in Africa have cel phones, right?

 

I believe they are human just as I am , but if the European would not have colonized Africa , culturally and technologically would be different as day and night .

 

I don't see it in my daily experience. Yep, I've heard some racist remarks over the years and have known people who were racist, but I don't believe that is the default for most. I don't believe the system is working against them as long as it isn't perpetuating the narrative that racism is keeping them down. I have no doubt that there are some biases in our society, but I also believe that people can rise above those problems and move forward If I can offer an anecdotal, I worked for a black woman who owns and manages her own business. It wasn't given to her, she earned it with her hard work. I admire her for the effort that is required to maintain such an endeavor. I have no doubt it is a 24/7 job. Whatever adversity she has experienced in life, she rose above it and moved forward.

My concern is the soft bigotry that holds lower expectations for a specific group. The idea that rioting, breaking windows, looting and burning down shops is an acceptable form of protest only asserts the worst stereotypes imaginable. However, I know from experience that those who try with honest effort can rise above it. I've seen it.

I believe that black culture is their worst enemy. I understand that history has played a role. If I were a white knight and could erase the past, I would. The best I can offer are schools, police, social services, and encouragement. Yes, if the police shoot down an innocent man, that needs to be addressed. Is it proof of systemic racism? I have my doubts.