The Mueller investigation.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Firing Mueller wont help him at all, by the sounds of it..as the Cohen case is a separate case. yes?
    The FBI has apparently successfully closed the door on any Trump magic....mmmm ....incredible strategy at play...
    As it stands the FBI can still quite easily state they are NOT investigating the POTUS per se. yes?

    If Cohen is a smart as he is supposed to be he will definitely have planned a get out of jail card. He has had plenty of time and ample warning to do so. This might get really interesting!
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Generally speaking, firing Mueller won't help President Trump. Particularly speaking, the Cohen case is separate, through the Southern District of New York, which was formerly Preet Bharara's office, but was apparently referred by the Special Counsel's Office. Or, in part on referral from SCO. Or, as Matt Apuzzo was saying a few minutes ago on msnbc, something about Mueller playing with Trump, and though I'm not a fan of that particular phrasing, it's pretty straightforward: Any relevant information from these searches will land back in Mueller's hands. And in that sense, Apuzzo makes it sound cynical, but the the chatter yesterday was more about the idea that paying off women, while potentially campaign finance and bank fraud violations, are outside the scope of Mueller's commission until such cases wander back in.

    The complication about Cohen would be if, for instance, Putin really is in on it; Cohen would know, and likely be absolutely terrified of what happens if he becomes a liability. You know, even if it's all just a misunderstanding and it turns out Puti-Toots is the nicest closet case you'll ever meet. After all, the Russian strongman has a reputation, which in turn he often seems to cultivate. Whatever. Cohen wants to compare himself to a mob figure, so what if the Boss thinks he's about to roll?
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Was the raid on the office a fishing trip?
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    A fishing trip is a raid with no specific purpose in mind, intended to see if they can "dig up dirt" they didn't know was there.

    In this case there is plenty of evidence that the dirt was there.
     
  8. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    That's illegal. The president is lying if you haven't realized that by now.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    That's why I don't like Apuzzo's choice of words, but other than that, no, actually it seems to not be. The idea is that information pertaining to Cohen in the Mueller investigation overlaps with various issues. One of these might be Trump organization records pertaining to quickie shell companies that might be involved in the Trump Tower Moscow issue, and in that batch of documents might be something pertaining to actions paying off adultery or harassment claims involving Donald Trump. Thus we come to the questions of campaign and bank fraud violations, which would be crimes, but outside the scope of Mueller's particular mandate. He would, in this circumstance, refer the case as a matter of duty under law.

    And if SDNY gets anything pertaining to Russia in its searches, those investigators will be duty-bound to pass it along to the Special Counsel's Office.
     
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  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    They had a formal warrant - which in the case of a seizure of a lawyer's material would need to be rigorously specific - with a no-knock provision, requiring evidence of risk that evidence would be destroyed with warning.
    Two Trump appointees and a half dozen Republican officials signed off on it.

    This is standard procedure for taking down organized crime families.
     
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  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    further proving that the stakes MUST be extremely high in this case.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Put it all in perspective:
    In part:

    Trump is currently considering (?) war in Syria which may lead to global conflagration. ( high stress position)
    Trump is currently engaged in a high stakes trade "negotiation" akin to playing poker. (high stress position)
    Trumps personal life is being further exposed and highlighted re: Stormy D., his wife etc ( high stress position)
    Trumps key long term lawyer, personal and other has had his offices raided under warrant (extreme stress position)

    along with all this he has a new cabinet and an ongoing war with the media.

    How he is managing to stay sane is amazing...

    edit: and now he appears to have breached security by bragging about the threat to Russia of "new and smart missiles".
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    You are assuming he is sane to begin with...
     
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  14. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    It wasn’t a raid, it was a disgraceful brake in by a bunch of thug Democrats according to this legal genius.

     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    One would hope they have a team of prosecutors not connected to the case, going through the privileged information to make sure everything regarding said lawyer/client privilege not pertaining to what they are after, remains as such. Otherwise, this could very well blow up in their faces.

    There are risks in raiding the officers of lawyers, for obvious reasons.
     
  16. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    "Taint" teams...
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/10/politics/cohen-raid-trump-attorney-client-privilege/index.html
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That's routine. They have a routine, standard procedure. It's important , taken seriously - blow it, and you can get your entire case thrown out of court after years of work. They don't know who the judge is going to be, making that decision, either.

    It's sometimes called a "clean team". This one is probably (I'm guessing about the warrant's language*) doing three-way sorting: Attorney/Client (Trump's many lawsuits, Trump University etc); State of New York with Cohen complicity (bank fraud, Daniels and payoffs, et al); and Russian dealings abetted by Cohen (via his brother's father-in-law et al), which is Mueller's bailiwick.

    There will be overlap, in which case they will make copies for everybody.

    This is routine for racketeering cases, organized crime cases, even corporate crime cases if they were careless enough to involve their lawyers in their conspiracies - you roll up the lawyers going in.
    New term for me - I like it, I especially like newscasters using it - appeals to my childhood (I'm old enough to remember when all the male talking heads had to learn to pronounce "menstruation" while looking into a camera. )

    * There were several, multiple, warrants, apparently - different crimes and different jurisdictions. This guy's toast.
    ** There are now at least three different bad guy groups motivated to get rid of Cohen by any means necessary - they can cover for each other. His death would not be a smoking gun aimed at anybody in particular.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    btw: speculating here, but the absurdity meter will peg if Cohen's computer files are not bomb-proof encrypted, or he kept paper copies of bad stuff around in file cabinets.

    That goes into the file with Kushner doing international conspiracy dealings using WhatsApp, Trump turning his speakerphone on in sensitive cabinet meetings to channel Lou Dobbs into the room from wherever, Trump tweeting away on an Android he carried with him all over during the campaign, and so forth.

    The regular Mob, Trump's world of warcraft, is not a cabal of criminal masterminds. It really isn't.

    Odd passing thought: maybe the Secret Service let Trump and Jared and the crew keep their phones and use them as they do so responsible folks in the NSA could keep tabs on what they were up to.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Let's see what the stable genius had to say when the shoe was on the other foot:

    Trump Oct 2016: “She’s likely to be under investigation for criminality for a very, very long time to come. We’re going to be tied up in court for the rest of our lives with this deal. She’s not going to win the election, but I’m just saying. If Hillary is elected, she will be under protracted criminal investigation likely followed by the trial of a sitting president. This is just what we need.”

    Oct: "The investigation is the biggest political scandal since Watergate and it’s everybody’s hope that justice at last can be delivered.”

    Nov: “If Hillary Clinton were to be elected, it would create an unprecedented and protracted constitutional crisis”

    “Hillary is likely to be under investigation for many years, probably concluding in a criminal trial.”

    “She'll be under investigation for years. She'll be with trials. Our country, we have to get back to work.”

    “Hillary has engaged in a criminal massive enterprise and cover-ups like probably nobody ever before.”

    “There's virtually no doubt that FBI Director Comey and the great, great special agents of the FBI will be able to collect more than enough evidence to garner indictments against Hillary Clinton and her inner circle, despite her efforts to disparage them and to discredit them. If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. In that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.”

    “Her current scandals and controversies will continue throughout her presidency and we will make it honestly, look, it's gonna be virtually impossible for her to govern. Now, the Republicans have talked very tough and the Democrats. It's gonna be just another mess for another four years, folks. A mess. We've got to get back to work, right? I mean, we have to get back to work.”

    "Hillary Clinton will be under investigation for a long, long time for her many crimes against our nation, our people, our democracy, likely concluding in a criminal trial.”

    “The investigations into her crimes will go on for a long, long time. The rank and file special agents at the FBI won't let her get away with these terrible crimes, including the deletion of 33,000 emails after receiving a congressional subpoena."
     
  20. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    The fact that Crooked Hillary hasn’t been convicted and thrown under the jail for her heinous crimes is evidence that there's an anti-Trump bias in the Justice Department. When this is verified by a new investigation, and those corrupt elements purged from the Justice Department, the witch hunt will end and Trump, now undistracted, can make America great again.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Because if Clinton was guilty but got away with it, Trump must be innocent. Of course.
    They must have seen Trump coming almost as soon as the Russians knew about him.

    Fortunately, they still have a way to rectify the situation somewhat - they should give Trump an opportunity to clear his name by deposing to investigators and testifying to Congressional committees under oath, just like Clinton got.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously? Hillary who?
    oh the lady that sent 33000 emails to 33000 recipients and not one of those emails has turned up?
    really?
    She may have scrubbed her email server against a subpoena but she didn't/couldn't scrub the recipient emails.

    So who do you think received all those emails?
    Santa Claus perhaps?
     
  23. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    Don’t hold your breath. I seriously doubt he would do it willingly. His supporters are busy weaving conspiracies to give him cover against any accusations leveled by Mueller or congress.

    Talk to Mueller? No, Trump Should Use His Bully Pulpit to Expose Mueller's Corruption

    There is no way to sugarcoat it – especially after the lawless invasion of the attorney-client privilege by fancy-suited thugs, if President Donald Trump sits down and talks to Robert Mueller and his pack of Democrat donor corruptocrats, he’s an idiot.

    Instead, he needs to take his case to the people – because a blind man can see that he’s being framed.


    https://townhall.com/columnists/kur...pulpit-to-expose-muellers-corruption-n2469915

    Who would Crooked Hillary be corresponding with? Why other crooks of course.
     

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