The most absurd moderation in Sci history

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Norsefire, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,385
    No. You are expected to provide evidence of your view of history.

    Do you understand now?

    Failure to do so will result in a ban.

    But here's the thing. Those who claim he is a socialist are able to back up their claims as to why they think he is a socialist. You have come out and said that history does not have to be correct, only what you believe to be correct. I am asking you as a member and a moderator of this forum to show proof of your claims of what you believe history to be. If you believe this is so, then you should have no problems in providing said proof.

    Which has nothing at all to do with your claims in the other thread and in this one.

    Tick tock Norse.

    That would be Bells... ie.. Me..

    The rules of this site are clear. You have got to be able to provide proof of your claims, failure to do so can and will result in a ban. You have posted anti-semitic comments on this site about what you believe history to be. I am requesting that you provide proof of your claims or face a ban.

    The choice is yours.

    Quite the contrary. I am demanding that you provide proof of your claims of your version of history. Surely you must have gotten it from somewhere.

    So where does it stem from? Where does blaming the victims of a holocaust because of their ethnicity and religion come from?

    Since you rescinded this retraction later on, I am still waiting for you to provide proof.

    You may think that you are making a stance and going all Che on us with fist raised, but at the end of the day, if you are banned for this, then it will be for being anti-semitic and unable to back your claims with valid proof. Imaginary history does not amount to proof. Again, the choice is yours.

    Again. You fail to comprehend what is very simple and clear.

    I am asking you to show proof of your claims about history. Such a demand does not make me or James bigots.

    Ah, but it is not James who will ban you. That will be my pleasure.

    An expectation that you provide proof is not to support Zionism. Really, that line grows old. I am asking you to cite your sources and provide proof of what you have claimed about history. That is not Zionism and claiming it is so won't make it so.

    Which has what to do with what you have claimed?

    You are allowing your feelings about the current events in the ME to cloud your judgement and cloud the true facts of history. You have claimed the following:

    And Jews sabotaged Europe, manipulate world banks, and created the conditions necessary for both World Wars.


    So cite your proof or retract, offer an apology or face a ban from this site.

    Which has nothing to do with this topic.

    You have altered history based off what you believe occured. I am asking you to provide proof of your claims. So provide or tick tock..

    Advice you should take for yourself.

    Ah yes. How embarrassing for you to have a lowly moderator like me demand that you provide proof of your claims.

    How can I put this Norse...? "Grow a pair"...

    Oh poor you. How dare you have to be made to cite proof and evidence of your claims. Boo hoo. Welcome to the real world sunshine.

    And Norse, there is a reason that this discussion is being held in the open. So that you cannot claim bias.

    Maybe?

    Please, do not speak of things you obviously know nothing about.

    Now, cite your proof or tick tock Norse.
     
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    no just one in twenty you feel on acting. and I will report those I agree with too. you just need to believe that so its fits into the trouble maker line you just took on string word with zero attempt to verify.

    I don't think I know. and I'm not angry with you. unhappy yes but I can not be angry with someone for acting like human being




    and I would take it kindly if you wouldn't take pot shots at me to goad me to a rash reaction so you can do away with one of your detractors.

    hell the very thing you banned Norse hear for blaming people for the attacks against them is your and strings offical position in buffalo's attacks against me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
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  5. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    I would take it kindly that you not attack me for calling you out for your bigotry and idiocies. My sentences are coherent you just lack for some reason another the frame of reference to understand them.
     
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  7. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    @Norse

    I'm sure you are well aware that I disagree with your opinion, as a matter of habit I am always irritated by gross generalizations or group characterizations, but that's just me. I think your estimation or opinion is an error and hell I don't even agree with your estimation of James, but your ban does show a tinge of hypocrisy and I will tell you why. As you have mentioned very few if any are banned for making sweeping statements about Europeans, Americans (lets say the west in general) and Israeli's specifically. Often times the 'people' are not separated from 'the government' or said governments policies and so they are referred to as being innately 'evil' etc.

    Willnever made this assertion which I agree with completely:

    "There is no such thing as "absolute proof" for most things that we accept as historical truth."

    Now anyone can make the statement that 'the West has a history of violence and are the cause of war', which of course includes the people, without getting the slightest slap on the wrist. I would object to the statement on the grounds that it includes Lichtenstein, Sweden, Denmark and Norway! But then there would be talk of Viking raids and such. Which nation or people Norse have not engaged in violence and war? Can you think of even one outside of the Inuits? And even then I would say we are not looking closely enough at their history!

    I was once chastised by a mod for stating that extremist islam is the cause of contemporary terrorism. Asked for evidence I asked whether they knew of any global terrorist act today that wasn't carried out by muslim extremists. I didn't get an answer but another member posted some conspiracy 'information' which basically blamed 9/11 on the US government. In short it wasn't al qaeda or Bin Laden it was the innately evil American government AND their people. Almost any kind of information can be used to justify an argument and it will be disputed whether the source is valid or not. I have had members say that anything coming out of the Western media is biased if I use it as 'proof' but they would have no problem using those same sources when the information suits their needs.

    If you wanted to be witty about your argument you could have taken Shakespeare's 'Merchant of Venice' to prove that Jews introduced usury where it was illegal to do so in Europe. John Draper is a reputable scholar who did just that using English Jews as an example of what happened during Shakespeares time to show it was economics and not race or religion that led to ghettos etc.

    Basically it would have fit into your argument about banking an economics.

    And you could have even used Shylocks quote:

    "I hate him for he is a Christian;
    But more for that in low simplicity
    He lends out money gratis, and brings down
    The rate of usance here with us in Venice."

    Now would that example and perhaps Draper's book by your side have saved you? Who knows. What I do know is that there are suspiciously more examples on this site than necessary of pig bones in jewish burial sites with all sorts of 'data' and 'archeological findings' that could be edited down to prove a point like 'jews are worshiping ancestors that are really pigs.' Could I find evidence to the contrary? Yes but then the evidence would be accused of zionist zealot bias and no one would be banned for these continuous assertions. Its not what you said its how you said it and without evidence to support it.

    I think you know where I am going with this.

    You could even have brought up 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' as evidence but you would have had a tough time proving that the doctrine is anything but mere propaganda.

    How do we know that Othello, Merchant of Venice and Titus Andronicus were not mere propaganda of its time, like the Al Shatat TV series put out by Hezbollah which uses the protocols to villainize Jews? Could or would anyone here use it as evidence of 'absolute proof'?

    I could take this little bit of information right here:

    2003
    An exhibition of holy books of monotheistic religions at the Alexandria Library in Egypt includes a copy of the Protocols next to the Torah. UNESCO issues a public denunciation of the Alexandria Library exhibition.

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007244

    Just to show evidence that there is inherent racism towards jews by muslims. Would you be able to prove me wrong?

    Opinions are fine when stated as such but they cannot be used to back up an argument or show evidence. Same goes for dogma and rhetoric which are all over these boards.

    The problem with sciforums these days is that it does lack intellectual honesty and no one here is scholarly enough to sift the wheat from the chaff as far as what would be required from disciplined research and evidence born opinion, where one can admit to what information they are not sure of is 100% accurate. Here is all about polemics backed up by wiki and google. Opinion first and evidence second and ignore anything that doesn't fit within their paradigm.

    There is no stringent effort towards intellectualism because if it were so you would not have been banned but would have been severely challenged to back up your opinion or get off the podium and the call would have been objective. Or rather I should say it 'could' be objective.

    Right now all you are dealing with is wild rantings from those who did not have the capacity to challenge your assertions, which if i do say so myself could have been easily done with the minimum amount of effort.

    Don't beg for a permaban as this site is paltry enough without losing another interesting poster, just because a mod could not be patient enough to challenge your opinion for your own and everyone else's enlightenment, never mind in the interest of true intellectual dialogue.

    This place is all about feeling and emotion with a dash of intellectual effort and so yes you will come across hypocrisy by those who will judge your arguments and assertions but never use the same yard stick to any of their own. This does make things boring and it does make things tedious and frustrating. Especially if you are only dealing with the boom and clang of rhetoric and dogma minus a genuine counter-argument.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  8. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    Personally I believe that this board has become more and more divisive with this issue of jews and muslims. Are they the only issues anyone can address? I would have put up a thread on the tribunals in Cambodia and the conviction of Duch but this board has become so narrow in its issues that I wouldn't even waste my time. People are not really interested in new information only the re-hashing of the old. The world has suddenly shrunk into nothing but 'us vs. them' or the 'bigots vs the just', Jews vs Muslims, 'the west vs. the middle east', 'god vs no god'. Its all bullshit.

    I was going to open two threads in Art & Culture, one on 'The Reader' by Bernhard Shlink but realized that having a discussion about anything that didn't appeal to popular culture would have been an absolute waste of my time and probably no one would have read it or even know how to discuss it. Same goes for the amazing Israeli film called 'The Lemon Tree' but the essential theme of that film would have soon been drowned out by the the 'us's and the 'thems' who only care about pushing some political agenda.

    Really I would get more silly chatty responses if I started a thread called 'What's your favorite Muppet?'

    Anyway...

    Complaints have now become the most interesting threads on sciforums. Sad.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    34,471
    No, they are just the pet topics of those who shout the loudest right now. There are quite a few one-track minds around here.

    Personally, I'm sick to death of the mindless circular argument we get here about Israel vs. Palestine. That's why I mostly don't post anything substantive on that topic. I find I only ever look at those topics as a result of reports received that require moderator action. Nothing new on the suibject has been posted for a long time.

    I'd be interested. I've seen a bit about that in the news. There's also the ongoing trial of Charles Taylor in the ICC.

    It's not quite bullshit, but the amount of repetition and revisiting of old ground that we get here is quite staggering. That's why I'd like to see more new members. Some of the old ones are getting stale.

    I've seen the film, and would be interested in discussing it.

    I'm not familiar with that, but would be interested, potentially. I think you're right that the usual suspects would jump in and sidetrack such a thread to the usual us vs. them thing.

    Now there's an idea!

    Again, some people here are so jaded that they only come here these days for the complaining.
     
  10. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    @James R

    Well okay I will work on the Duch conviction and trial in general, it will take a day or two as there is a lot of dense information to break-down. And I will start a thread on 'The Reader' and 'The Lemon Tree'. Check out the latter if you have the time as it is quite a moving film. I will do so just to see how the response turns out.

    Maybe some of the old members are getting stale. But how is the board to attract serious new members with much to offer if all they see is Israeli-Palestine and pet theme topics that come across as mindless chatting?

    This thread is showing much promise but they are few and far between;

    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=103220

    As for being jaded its difficult to not become jaded over time when you get to the point where you don't expect anything better from the site. If you can't elevate it eventually it will debase you if you know what I mean.

    How to attract a diverse intellectual crowd on a variety of topics that can hold their salt is the question. How to sift out the relevant from the irrelevant topics (I'm speaking of subject matter not members) so the site doesn't get bogged down with inanity.

    Anyway you cut it we won't be able to attract 'better' members with Muppet threads!

    I mean old stale members may outweigh their welcome but there is also the risk of not encouraging members to open threads of merit or worthy of what we like to call 'the intelligent community'. Just because someone doesn't get banned doesn't mean they contribute a hell of a lot. And just because someone pushes themselves through the door by their behaviour doesn't mean they have never contributed to the site.

    Its just a thought.

    Maybe what you guys in the back room should be discussing is how to elevate the topics of discussion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  11. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,061
    Those who tire of issues pertaining to the Mideast, Mideastern resources, Islam, and the relationships of that region and its people to the wider world should remember that our governments have us all perilously entangled in these matters. The United States and our coalitions are not at war in Cambodia today, and are not poised to explode or exploit problems there. The United States and the many nations still following our lead are now at war in the Mideast and its periphery, are priming for more war there, and taking sides in the central injustice exploited by so many (Israeli apartheid). Those of us who feel for the plight of others in other regions of the world, and who would like to explore issues involving other cultures and traditions than the Abrahamic ones are of course free to do so, and I follow such threads with interest myself.

    The reality is that we are all forced to revisit Mideast politics and relations between Islam and the rest of the world, because our societies in our times are arrayed for battle there. What happens in the Mideast in the near future will be profoundly affecting us all. I wish it were not so. Sometimes I turn away from it. But the frequency and depth of discussion here on the Mideast and Islam is not the product of member obsessions here. It is the product of the world we live in.
     
  12. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    No Hype. I and much of the world are not 'perilously entangled' in the ME nor much of the worlds 'governments'. As opposed to US citizens I don't even have to pay taxes as a Brit living abroad so I don't even contribute financially. The only people who are 'perilously entangled' in the ME are those who are living there, those who are living with it.

    Cambodia was carpet bombed by the US, they were exploited as a neutral country for US interests, and the place did explode. And guess what? They survived. They healed and they moved on. What you think the ME is the only part of the world to have seen war Hype?

    You claim that the threads on this subject are there for members to 'explore' the issue. But they are not, they are for political grandstanding, they are one sided soap boxes. They neither enlighten nor change minds, nor do they offer more information than one had before nor do they drive people to action! Have you ever been able to look to the other side of this argument and try to understand the counter-arguments?

    Question is has the way the topic is handled here, which has not been in the interest of intellectual dialogue, helped build understanding on the topic? Or has it simply divided the community?

    This whole experience of engaging in that subject here on sciforums has literally created a numbness so I don't even pay any attention to it anymore in my everyday life. I don't read articles on it anymore. 'Its their bloody issue let them handle' it is now my attitude. THAT is what sciforums has done for me on that particular subject.

    If you were so interested in the ME you wouldn't harp about it on sciforums thread after thread, including this one that had nothing at all to do with the matter til your post. You would be out there BEING an activist. You would go to a site like this:

    http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/mideast/

    And you would click on Palestine and then go to the 'get involved' section and find out what you can do from a grass roots level from where you are. You would be in email contact with them and you would through action and not mere words be an 'activist'.

    I mean think about it a sec. Why on earth did you bring up this topic here when we were speaking of Norse and the argument he's made in another thread? Is it that you feel you have to stick the subject in everyones face? Are there not enough threads on the subject already at hand? What?

    And no sorry to disappoint but there are other issues just as pressing or even more so than the ME.

    The world does not revolve around ME issues and the ME is not the center of the world!

    The question is whether sciforums will be a political activist board for pet topics or an outlet for intellectual exploration. Take your pick!

    And as for 'abrahamic' religions and Islam are concerned it may be a part of the world you live in but its not a part of mine, and I am living in a very diverse international expat community! NGO, journalists and UN workers to boot!!! And guess what this particular issue rarely if ever comes up and many of them have worked in the region as well as many others. I personally don't need to know anything more about Islam nor is Islam the only culture or religion worthy of exploration as you so seem to believe.


    Why don't you start your own political activism forum right here on sciforums where you can go and add information of 'what people can do' or go out and 'do something yourself'? Hell you can dedicate the entire 'activism forum' to palestine itself!! Why don't you start an entire forum dedicated to Islam and Judaism? Then those who want to go and 'explore' can do so just like they do in the religion or philosophy sections. It would be far better than it leaking all over the forums or completely destabilizing WE&P, or alienating members or giving members rise to insult, counter-insult and banning!!!

    But like I said don't give me this nonsense of 'exploration' when all it does is mirror the divisiveness that exists on the ground in the ME!
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  13. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    Actually Bells is actively using her forum status to try to get him banned. She wants to ban him. That is why her posts contain 8-10 personal insults toward Norse followed by "now provide the impossible proof I seek or take it back." Pretty sad to observe how far things have spiraled down, when even pigs are allowed to mods. What sickening and sad posturing.

    Insult people, then demand an apology. Sounds like an effective strategy to diffusing a conflict.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  14. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,109
    No has to try and get Norse to say hateful stupid things he does that pretty well on his own.
     
  15. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    You don't know right from left. JamesR and Bells are constructing their posts in a way that will help ensure norse does not follow their demands, by using some ridiculous posturing and continual insults. That is because Bells wants him to be banned. Perhaps this is one of the few chances she gets in her life to act clever.

    If you don't know what I'm talking about here still, you might want to just excuse yourself from the conversation.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    Otherwise known as 'goading'.
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    23,385
    Norsefire has been banned for 10 days for repeating anti-semitism that had resulted in his original ban and failing to provide proof for his claims and his version of history.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,109
    quit being an ass simply because someone your friendly with got what was coming to him. this wouldn't have happened had he not been a whiner. Do not blame bells and james for norse actions.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,385
    If I had wanted him to be banned, I would have banned him immediately and not given him 12 hours to provide proof for his version of history. In fact, I even gave him a few extra hours. As he admitted himself, apparently history does not have to be correct. Now, I should not have to tell you how ridiculous that is, should I?

    If you are unhappy with the decision I have taken, you are free to PM Plazma or any of the other administrators on this site with your complaint.

    But let me make one thing very, very clear. Comments such as those posted by Norse are clearly in violation of this site's rules. They were anti-semitic and also false. When you post on this site, there is the expectation that you be able to provide proof for whatever claim it is you make. Failure to do so can and will result in a ban. If you do not loke these rules, I would suggest you take it up with Plazma. If you think that having an expectation and demanding that someone be able to cite their sources and provide proof is goading, then again, you are free to take that complaint up with Plazma.

    Have I made myself clear?

    Something you continue to attempt to do through misrepresenting what was actually said. I would suggest you stop.
     
  20. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    @Bells

    Not misrepresenting. Calling it as it is. And I don't have to stop anything. Go back and look at the way you constructed your post and ask yourself if indeed if it isn't goading? But I don't really want an answer from you because I don't give a shit what you think. My post's were to Norse, James and Will NOT you. I suggest you don't address me directly and I will be sure not to do the same with you. But it doesn't mean I cannot address others and give my opinion. If you don't like it just look at your bloody sophisticated avatar and you will know where to stick it!

    I've told you this before.

    I don't respect you so its best if you just don't post anything my way.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    23,385
    And as I have told you before Lucy, if you have a complaint about me, then take it to the admin. Whining about it on the forum repeatedly isn't going to do you any favours.

    Because you are coming very close to trolling.

    Oh and one more thing. I will address you if I see fit. If you don't like that, then I am sure you can take your own advice to me or you can leave.
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    Goading Goading Goading!

    I have never liked the clang clang clang of bells. I've always preferred chimes personally.

    I HAVE REFRAINED FROM DEALING WITH YOU DIRECTLY AND I AM ASKING YOU TO DO THE SAME. If you cannot its because you are GOADING GOADING GOADING!!!

    nuff said!

    And to whatever you want to say next. The response is 'whatever'. I won't leave. I'll treat you like the nothing you are and IGNORE YOU!!

    Got it now?
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    And I am giving you a warning in public. Stop trolling.

    You can "whatever" till the cows come home. Regardless of the sheer volume of insults you have thrown my way in the last couple of months, I have treated you with the utmost respect. So I will respectfully request that you stop trolling.
     

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