The mind is the matrix of all matter?!

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by stavrogin, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. stavrogin Registered Member

    This was said by the so-called father of quantum theory. He has claimed that consciousness is behind all matter and that matter does not exist in the same state if there is no consciousness. Think of it as a machine of some sort that converts electricity into something else, don't know - power maybe, or light. Without the machine electricity still exist.

    He has said "All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter."

    I have watched several videos about this theory of his, most of which claim that the double slit experiment proved his claims, but i'm still not buying it.

    What do you think about this, what are the implications of the double slit experiment and what are the flaws in his hypothesis?
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  3. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Moderator

    Precisely who are you referring to?

    No, we don't have to assume that. Religious people have been trying to 'prove' there is an intelligence behind the universe for as long as there has been religion and they have failed. Simply because the person asserting that is a competent scientist doesn't make the claim any less utterly unsupported.

    Who are you referring to? None of the people who could be called the father of quantum theory (Heisenberg, Bohr, Schrodinger, Dirac, Planck) said such things, to my knowledge.

    The double slit experiment can be explained entirely without inserting some universal intelligence into the model.
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  5. stavrogin Registered Member

    This was said by Max Planck and i agree, arguments from authority don't prove anything.

    "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."

    "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness"
    What is the explanation? This hypothesis claims that consciousness makes the wave collapse.
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  7. quantum_wave Contemplating the unanswered Valued Senior Member

    It doesn't matter who said it, the mind came after matter unless you believe in the supernatural, and the supernatural is not part of the scientific method. So this wouldn't be in the right forum.

    All matter probably does exist by virtue of a force or two, but that alone does not imply to me that there is a consciousness that exists or can exist without matter existing first to house it.
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    If you die will matter cease to exist for everyone else? Of course it won't, so that already tells you matter was here and will be here after you depart.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  9. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    After we die, our own biological matter will disseminate into it's most basic components, recycled back into the natural process of reorganization, as we nourish first the organisms of the soil, then the plants, finally becoming nutrition ingested by larger species, possibly even that lettuce you are putting on your BBQ'ed burger, or the grass that was ingested by the steer that became the ground beef. (Sorry if that is too much information, lol...

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    Ashes to ashes, dust to dust and all that jazz.

    We are but a small part of the organic gardening cycle of the cosmos, IMO....
  10. Rhaedas Valued Senior Member

    Even great scientists can be wrong sometimes. They are human after all.
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    But even after many of the great scientists have died we still see matter here after they have been long gone. So all of them were right so far.

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  12. wellwisher

    If you look at neurons, these cells use up to 90% of their energy maintaining a cationic gradient across the neuron membrane. What is interesting about this situation are the neurons (and all cells) expend energy to create a dynamic situation, which results in loss of entropy and an increase in energy at the membrane. This loss of entropy is connected to the segregating of sodium and potassium cations. Under normal conditions, these cations would prefer to form a uniform solution to maximize entropy. The neuron is using energy to do the opposite.

    The net effect is the neuron (and all cells) expend energy to create a dynamic situation that opposes the universal push toward lower energy and higher entropy. Neurons are unique among cells, in that they use the highest percent of their energy (90%) to oppose the universal directions of energy and entropy. What is intelligent about this design, in a intellectual way, is neurons (cells) create conditions which will amplify the universal potential to lower energy and increase energy; things will need to happen in many places to make up the deficit. The cells metobolize, create mutations, etc, to satisfy the universal potentials.

    With consciousness we not only get the membrane potential but also neuron firing., This firing will reverse the membrane potential and favors the direction of the universal potentials. But the neurons will continue to use energy to restore their opposition to the universe. The combination of universal opposition (set) and the universe asserting its authority (fire) combined define consciousness. The brain/neurons continue to create lowered entropy, via consciousnes for compact laws and principles. The universe increases entropy to define exceptions. The brain then lowers entropy resulting in an more advanced law, etc. This is just being consistent with the opposinig directions of membrane and univeral potentials ,as they zig zag to the future, with the membrane setting the potential for change by being so contrary to the universe.

    Say we worked under the assumption that universal consciousness works the same way as neurons (or vice versa), then it would also create conditons of lowered entropy and higher energy; segregation into higher energy and lower entropy; singularity. The universe wants to move this anomaly toward lower energy and higher entropy; bang (neuron firing within the universal consciousness).

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