The Impact of Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by joepistole, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    I have corrected you on this before, linking you to more accurate information. Donald's father was among the richer men in New York City, but never the richest man even just in that one place.

    This is more important than one might think, because the sting of the exclusion of Donald's father - and Donald - from the exclusive society of the very wealthiest families in New York seems to have dogged Trump his whole life. It bothered him, and it still does.
    The term "one of the richest men in America" is enough to make the point that Trump was born rich - but the comparison with the Bush family and similar people can mislead. There's a difference between being born rich and being born to great wealth, so to speak, and it matters with Trump - part of that difference is in the lack of responsibility for any community that Trump so flagrantly exhibits. Even New York City, his "home town", is a stage on which he preens rather than a city in which he lives, its residents rich and poor an audience (and market) rather than a neighborhood.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    LOL...have you now or are you just being dishonest and/or ignorant as is your custom? It's clearly the latter. Where have you corrected me even once? Unfortunately for you, fantasy isn't reality.

    As always with you, your assertions are just factually incorrect.

    Trump's father was reported to be the richest man in America, not just New York.

    "Yet his father, Fred Trump one of the richest men in America after constructing apartment complexes for the middle-class in Brooklyn and Queens." Washington Post

    Unfortunately for you Iceaura, facts do matter. You are kind of like Trump in this regard, you just make stuff up.

    Exclusion of The Donald from New York society...? Where have you been? The Donald has been a bon vivant his entire life. He mixes with and knows virtually everyone in New York social circles. But how is that important?

    Where is your evidence Trump was troubled by his birth or his alleged exclusion from New York social circles? How do you know a) it occurred, and b) that The Donald was troubled by it?

    How does that change the fact the Donald was born into one of, if not the richest, family in America? It doesn't. It doesn't change the fact the Donald's chief asset was being born into a wealthy family.

    Now whether you like it or not, The Donald was born into one of the world's richest families and Georgie Bush Junior was also born into one of America's richest families.

    Do you really think there is a difference between being born "rich" and being born "wealthy"?

    Perhaps you need to visit the dictionary again.

    1. 1.
      having a great deal of money or assets; wealthy.
    synonyms:wealthy, affluent, moneyed, well off, well-to-do, prosperous, opulent, silk-stocking;More

    You do know there is a reason why we have dictionaries? Unfortunately for you and those like you, words have meanings, just not the meanings you think they have. You cannot honestly just make up new defintions which are unique to you.

    Contrary to your assertion there is no difference between being wealthy and being rich. It's that old dictionary thingy which vexes you again.
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    He also has no experience in governing or public service. Being the dictator of a corporation doesn't prepare you for that. There you are surrounded by yes men, you get to fire and hire anyone, and you compete viciously with other corporations. It's also all about making a profit. Governing otoh requires people skills, and working well with Congress, and accepting advice, and being diplomatic with other nations, and a strong loyalty to the welfare of the nation. There is none of the greed or narcissism of being a little god of your own kingdom. Trump is the very antithesis of what a good president must be. And he is an ignorant classless douchebag to boot.
    cluelusshusbund likes this.
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  7. geordief Registered Senior Member

    You are coming across as crass joepistole. Your own quotes contradict you and you apparently don't understand the difference between rich and wealthy.

    I give up (you also seem overly argumentative) . With Trump opponents like you he has more of a chance.
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Oh, well then perhaps you can show how my quotes contradict me? I eagerly await.

    Well, that's your opinion. But that doesn't make it so. Now if you can find some error of fact or logic in my argument, please point it out.
  9. geordief Registered Senior Member

    Your quote "Trump's father was reported to be the richest man in America, not just New York. does not follow from " "Yet his father, Fred Trump one of the richest men in America after constructing .apartment complexes for the middle-class in Brooklyn and Queens". the quote in the W Post.
  10. geordief Registered Senior Member

    I told you I more or less agreed with you .Do you want me to tickle your belly as well?
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    In the third attempt to disabuse you of that basically silly notion, here are a couple more links and stuff:

    A book published in 1937, about the people the author labels the 60 richest families in America.

    He followed it up in the '60s with this

    You won't find much, if anything, about Fred Trump or his family in either book. Skimming, I could not find even the name, but it might be buried in there somewhere - at least a mention in the second book, one would think, which branches out into the fortunes of mere hundreds of millions.

    In 1940, when Donald was born, John D Rockefeller Jr (the only son and major heir of the richest American ever according to most lists) lived a few miles away in New York City. So did at least a couple of his five sons.

    And so forth. Donald has apparently never been accepted among the serious fortunes and genuinely wealthy families of America. And that's a problem for the rest of us as well, now - that man holds a grudge.
  12. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    There's no point talking about what either candidate will DO in they are both crooked as a corkscrew. The funniest part of the campaign so far was watching Trump pretending to be a Christian in the deep south...waving a bible about like a pirate sword!

    Bill Clinton used the same technique after being caught hosing down the local interns afoot in the White House. Photo ops were arranged to feature him wandering in grim reflection on his solemnly in hand.
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Sure there is. We have lots of information about how each candidate normally behaves - in Clinton's case, while holding political office. That's how we know they're crooked, right?

    We also have literally centuries of information about how various sorts of people behave in such office, what they tend to do, etc. The Presidents of my life have all - without exception - behaved in office in ways consistent with, and easily predicted from, their behavior before gaining the office.
    PhysBang and joepistole like this.
  14. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Based on the direction of this discussion, there is a hidden source of smoke and mirrors at a play here. There is often a difference between what is legal; right by secular standards, and what is morally right; right by moral standards. It is legal to declare bankruptcy, based on secular laws. The Bankruptcies of Trump are legal actions that are written in secular legal code.

    Many people on the left are being led not to look at his bankruptcies through the eyes of legal secular law. Rather they are told to look at these actions through the eyes of religious morality. They say that his actions impacted others; lost jobs, and therefore one may question his moral legitimacy. This is fine.

    However, if one prefers to use the laws of morality, instead of use secular law to judge Trump, one needs to realize that abortion and homosexuality are also considered suspect in the eyes of moral law. These, like bankruptcy, are totally legal in terms of secular law. However, they are not accepted by all, due to a conflict with traditional moral laws. The Democrat party propaganda is deliberately confusing these two separate standards. It is a magic trick that fools their base.

    What we need to do go through all the charges and scandals for both candidates and judge Hillary and Trump, by only secular law. Then we do the same thing by only moral law; one law set at the time. This is a better way to clearly define character in both systems of judgment.

    Trump is not overly religious and has been called a progressive by conservatives. He plays more by the rules of secular law, while living and working through a liberal state; NY. If you judge his speech and actions by secular law, he is not being illegal.

    If there was a problem with Trump's tax returns, the Obama Justice department would have already been all over him. Obama has already shown his willingness to use the IRS against the Tea Party; political enemies. Obama has many loyal party operatives working in the IRS, who did not get punished last time, who could easily get access Trump's tax returns on the IRS servers; inside hacking. His 1995 returns were illegally leaked to the NY times. Who in the IRS did this?

    The Democrats do not leak all his returns, even though they have them, because there is nothing illegal; secular laws, being found by Democratic party lawyers, who are clandestinely working on this for the Democratic party. Hillary and her campaign already have copies so they can plan strategy. Hillary prefers stick to the moral law angle, and challenge him to show his returns, using smoke and mirrors, since the lawyers are not finding anything, illegal enough, to take him out.
  15. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    So a, Trump, presidency is based on how he can weasel himself out of anything. Great role model I'd say.

    Again, you're making things up.


    Also, research and development in what, Cracker Jacks cereal with a prize in every box?
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Just for fun
    CHELSEA on Ann Coulter
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Hillary Clinton has a “Jekyll and Hyde” personality that left White House staffers scared stiff of her explosive — and even physical — outbursts, an ex-Secret Service officer claims in a scathing new tell-all.

    Gary Byrne, who was posted outside the Oval Office when Bill Clinton was president, portrays Hillary as too “erratic, uncontrollable and occasionally violent”
    The allegations from Byrne, a 29-year veteran of the military and federal law enforcement,
    “What I saw in the 1990s sickened me,” he writes in the intro of the book, “Crisis of Character: A White House Secret Service Officer Discloses his Firsthand Experience with Hillary, Bill, and How They Operate.”

    The book claims she repeatedly screamed obscenities at her husband, Secret Service personnel and White House staffers — all of whom lived in terror of her next tirade.

    Secret Service agents had discussions about the possibility that they would have to protect Bill from his wife’s physical attacks, Byrne writes, and the couple had one “violent encounter” the morning of a key presidential address to the nation.

    Meanwhile, a paranoid Hillary Clinton tried to have the Secret Service banned from the White House and once tried to ditch her security detail, Byrne says.

    consider it one man's opinion
  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Didn't Hillary, also want universal healthcare?

    You are just biased.
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Have you? I think what you have done is what you always do, be dishonest and evasive. You have repeatedly ignored evidence as is your customer, and you have repeatedly attempted to promote yourself through dishonesty, that's what you have done.

    You have no evidence or reason to support your belief The Donald suffered the psychological traumas of being a social outcast or being born into the richest family in America. In fact all the evidence suggests otherwise. Trump has lived at the epicenter of New York social life his entire lifetime. He went to private schools. He was born and raised in New York's upper crust.
  20. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

    Sure. And when this is done, we find that there is no judgment in law against Clinton and hundreds against Trump. Literally.

    Then we do the same thing by only moral law; one law set at the time. This is a better way to clearly define character in both systems of judgment.

    Not if it is a political problem.
    This is simply a lie. There is no evidence to support this claim. Only the ravings of Tea Party organizations that were upset that the IRS was doing their job by investigating them for actually violating the tax code.
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Do you really think any of that makes sense? Trump's bankruptcies spanning 2 decades challenge Trump's assertion that he is a great and successful businessman. That has nothing to do with the morality of or legality of his bankruptcies. It goes to his competency and qualification to become for the highest office in the land.

    OK. You cannot multitask? Who writes these laws you keep referring to, especially the moral laws?

    Except there are many of examples of where The Donald has violated secular laws, e.g. most recently his charitable foundation.

    It's not Obama's Justice Department. That's not how our government works and if you have a grade school education, you should know that. Virtually all of the Justice Department employees are career civil servants. There actions are governed by law and not by presidential fiat. The people making these decisions are career civil servants not political appointees. That's one of the things that separates the US from banana republics.

    The IRS is currently auditing The Donald or so he says. Have you not been paying attention? Did you not hear that The Donald illegally used his charitable foundation to illegally make campaign donations? Two, there is a mistaken belief in right wing circles that you can go to jail for not paying your taxes. That's not true. It has never been true. You can go to jail for not filing your taxes or falsifying your tax returns. The government won't throw you in jail for not paying your taxes.

    Well then perhaps you can provide some evidence of same? Where is the evidence Obama demonstrated his willingness to use the IRS against the Tea Party? You have none, because it never happened. Your assertion is one of the millions of right wing fictions which are promulgated every day in right wing circles. But that doesn't make them true.

    This particular fiction was extensively investigated by congressional Republicans and much to their chagrin they found absolutely nothing to support your assertion.

    Again, you are just making stuff up as American right wingers are wont to do. You have no evidence Democrats even have his returns. If Democrats had The Donald's tax returns, they wouldn't need to ask him for them. Why would The Donald refuse to release his tax returns if Democrats had them? If what you assert were true, it would be to The Donald's advantage to release his tax returns. But he hasn't.

    And you are missing the point as American right wingers are wont to do. The issue with Trump's tax returns isn't their legality or veracity. It's about Trump's competency and veracity. Is Trump the successful business man he proclaims to be? Is Trump as competent as he represents himself to be? Releasing Trump's tax returns also exposes Trump's conflicts of interests. What little is known about Trump's business dealings is that he does have some if not many conflicts of interests.

    Here is the problem Wellwisher, you have absoutely no evidence to support your many political machinations, and that should be a problem for you and your Republican, i.e. so called "conservative" cohorts, but it isn't. You should ask yourself why instead of inventing new conspiracies to explain away your errors of fact and reason.

    The reason Democrats want The Donald to release his tax returns is because they want transparency. They want to see if The Donald really is what he claims to be. They want to see what conflicts of interest he has. There is only one office in the land which doesn't require the occupant to disclose his or her conflicts of interest and that is the presidency. But every candidate for POTUS for more than a half century has publicly disclosed their tax returns except The Donald. Why?

    What is The Donald hiding? What is it The Donald doesn't want people to know? That's why Democrats want The Donald to disclose his tax returns. That has absolutely nothing to do with statutory or moral laws. It has everything to do with transparency and truthfulness. And thus far The Donald has refused be transparent and truthful. That's not a problem for the Republican base, folks like yourself. But it is a problem for folks who are not a part of the Republican base, and the Republican base represents only a minority of Americans.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  22. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Is this some jealousy?

    [EDIT] Ah fuck, crap, I meant to quote The God but this slow ass PC I'm using screws me up so much. I can't even tell if this is the right thread.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  23. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    I finally saw the VP debate and it made me think...Mike Pence vs Bernie Saunders would have been a much better choice for America. Kane acted like a teenager on Ritalin.

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