The "homophobic" lie

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Tiassa, Oct 12, 2007.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Reactionary degrees

    I think you've touched on something fairly important. This is what I don't get about it, though:

    I understand that some men consider the thought of having a penis in their butt a bit unsettling at least. But think about the visceral reaction. Maybe someone will scream and yelp and slap at the earthworm held in front of them. But no matter how visceral that reaction is, they're not going to go on a decade-long eradication campaign against earthworms and people who don't hate earthworms.​

    Many homophobes try to point out that not everyone likes the idea of having sex that way. And that's fine. Where the whole homophobia argument comes up is when it goes beyond what someone would or would not enjoy.

    Not wanting to have gay sex does not make one homophobic. Are we all clear on this?

    Trying to deny that homosexuals are human, or trying to force the law to pretend they don't exist, or trying to force the law to persecute them ... now these things are homophobic.

    And the question arises: If one finds homosexuality so difficult to think about, why do they spend so much time thinking about it?

    And the answer had better be something better than, "Because I don't like a homosexual man looking at me the way I look at a woman." If it's creepy, it's creepy. If the fact of a man looking at a woman changes that creepiness, then there's also an issue of misogyny that has to be addressed before the homophobic issue can be resolved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2007
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  3. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Right.

    Yep.

    Absolutely.

    Yep.

    Good question. Probably the same reason that arachnophobes obsess on spiders and how to avoid them. Or why agoraphobes obsess on the outdoors and how to avoid it. Or how acrophobes obsess on high places and how to avoid them.

    Phobias are, by definition, pathological conditions that require treatment. They are not normal. The posessors of these phobis can't stop thinking about them, even though they are terrified by them. Could this go some way to explaining the extreme behavior of some people concerinig gays?

    Obviously, much of this is societally conditioned. No mainstream religion goes out of it's way to embrace homosexuality. Xianity damn's the practice outright, and what country do we live in? The US of Xianity.

    Was that better?
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    (Insert title here)

    Um ... sure.

    It could. Probably does. But it's one of those ironies of "political correctness" that we don't talk about that. Recently, for instance, a topic came up about psychological tests suggesting that liberals could circumstantially deviate more easily from conditioned patterns. Part of the conservative response was to get paranoid. Someone made the point that the idea reeked of eugenics. That the topic itself smacked of politics is beyond doubt, but the idea that the experiment "smacks of eugenics", or "implies intellectual dysfunction on the part of conservatives" is a bit silly.

    The last thing anyone is allowed to suggest is that "mainstream" American morals need psychotherapy.

    Ever heard the Christian Pledge of Allegiance?

    I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty to all who believe.

    Creepy, eh? Salon.com political editor gave a talk in Seattle last April in support of her book, Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism. The appearance was covered and broadcast by KUOW Speaker's Forum. It's a fascinating reading. Starting at 15:35, she reads from a portion of her book about a conference called "Reclaiming America for Christ":

    Okay, okay. So I got carried away. I had planned to stop after the Dan Quayle bit, but the segment does give us some insight to the conservative Christian movement that holds this country hostage. Anyway, I think I got the divisions right.

    Um ... yeah. Two cents about the Christian nation.

    (There's a great bit in there about conservatives asking God to send the Schiavo-case judge to Hell, as well a vague threat to kill Justice Kennedy.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
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  7. Meursalt Comatose Registered Senior Member

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    That was probably the most telling post in this thread. Admittedly. I skipped from page 1 to page 15 for... what I would hope to be obvious reasons. I may have missed something good in them meantime, but such is life under the influence of Jade (and where did that come from?).

    The only telling fact is that talking a good hard shit is eminently pleasurable. Translating that to being buttfucked, though, requires a major shift in viewpoint.

    Google "ass porn". The only barrier, sociologically speaking, is.... dammit. Sociological.

    Barriers. They are in the mind.
    Tiassa, no doubt, has already entertained the possibility that he isn't gay at all.
    Perhaps he has also entertained the possibility that there is no "gay".
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    And, yes, I swallow

    I refuse to answer the first proposition insofar as I will identify myself as gay should I ever get around to trying to build a lasting relationship with another man. In other words, if I date a guy, I'll finally make the point of coming out of the closet to the last people I know who aren't already aware that I enjoy a good cock.

    As to the second, the general social discourse about homosexuality has not matured to such a level. Attempting to explain that point to most people would only confuse them. To the other, we also might mean different things by it.
     
  9. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    I just generally don't understand why people care so much for what others do with their genitals, and love so long as it doesn't harm anyone, and is consensual...I mean, okay, you don't have to find it cool, or attractive, or anything like that, but meddling with other people's sexual desires is just taking a step too far, no? But people seemingly have a tendency to fear, or demonise anything that goes against their society's norm, or what is unknown, or new to them.

    Best would be if all would be attracted to one another regardless of gender(I think the term for this would be pansexual, or omnisexual..not sure), because I'm persuaded that everyone has both in them. (yin & yang)

    Okay, I just wrote a load of bull. :facepalm:
     
  10. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    886
    Believe it or not, gay men do have the same exact impulses. It's not sexual "aggression," though. We just have really powerful sex drives, and a powerful, overactive sex drive makes it really really hard to think straight. There is a specific reason that otherwise intelligent men can act really retarded around attractive women. In a way, being around an attractive woman literally turns down the lights in their frontal lobes enough that, for a while, they effectively are mentally retarded, even if they are geniuses otherwise. When men are feeling really really attracted to someone, they aren't feeling aggressive. No, no, no. They are actually feeling kind of high.

    It kind of reminds me of women who suffer from the paranoid belief that every man who gives them a passing glance secretly desires to rape them. How arrogant can you get? Speaking as someone who has seen this from all angles, I find that kind of attitude to be really fucking offensive. I'd like to tell those kinds of people, "Little you isn't the only human being on the planet who was born with any morals. Even if I were having sexual fantasies about you, I wouldn't act on them because that would be fucking discourteous and immoral. I'm not one of those people who kiss on the first date or peep into people's windows."
     
  11. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Tiassa would be one of those "gay men" last I heard.

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    I think it is going to be difficult to draw good conclusions from any clump of humans as diverse as straight, gay or bi men. Human sexual habits are both extrordinarially complex and diverse. There might be trends, aka stereotypes, but the overlap is going to render those little more than fodder for sitcoms.

    It really depends on the man and the situation. If its a dominant man and there are other dominant men then there is going to be aggression until the pecking order is straightened out and the female/non dom gay man shows acceptance of the courting advances and selection of a single suitor.

    The less dominant male the crowd, the less overt agreesion, but it may instead manifest as passive aggresion as long as there is doubt about the pairings. Few things are more fun than watching geeks sniping at each other when an unattached woman has been introduced to the environment. It reminds me of gazel doing their thing.

    Only when pair bonds are set and there isn't a need to thrash out dominance can you relax and enjoy.

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    OK, that is sooo gay.

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