The Holy Quran

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    sounds more like a catholic church..
     
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  3. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    islam is not only for arabs or whatever, i wonder how did islam reached eastern asia and mangolia and etc... (knowing that mongolians are who conquered baghdad and won)

    and in islam, all all prophets, we beleive in them, also jesus as a prophet, and all were calling for one thing, beleiving in god, and none but god.
     
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  5. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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  7. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    p.s.: many may think islam have a sign like christanity use the cross and jews use that 6 angles star, islam don't have any
    there's this
    i bare witness that there's no god but allah, and muhammad is he's prophet
    and about the moon and star, show me where it is in quran...it's a geometrical art, for example in kairouan, on mosques, it's not a moon and a star, but three or 4 balls, each one is smaller than the next, anyway, many different shapes, ever heard, of, art?
     
  8. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    first, hajj if you mean, it's not an idol worship, islam is against worship any but god, and, hajj is not because, somehow, long missions or getting married or whatever, LOL
    i mean, what?

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    a person must do hajj once in he's life, and maximum three times, BUT, only if he could, if he had money to, if he had health to be able to do it, and etc... IF he was able to do it as i said.
    in hajj, a person must never carry any kinds of weapon, and must not fight even by words, and must not kill any living creature, including plants, animals, even ants and etc...
    what does that supose to mean?
     
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    and Buddhism isn't just for Indians, and Christianity isn't just for GreecoRomans ANYONE can convert to Judaism - so what's your point?

    Islam entered Asia and SE Asia through trade. Mainly trade with the wealthy Chinese Empire. Although, interestingly enough, the Chinese were unimpressed with Muslim use of interest on money.

    If "Islam" is for everyone, then why are there no Shinto Temples in Islamic Nations? Why are there no Buddhist Temples in Islamic Nations? Where are all the Synagogues in KSA? "Islam is for everyone" - yeah, right.

    Lastly, the question is how did the Qur'an come to be produced and when. It'd be good to have an answer they doesn't involve a magical flying broom or horsey.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Idol worship or setting partners with God is the oldest Islamic insult against Christianity.

    Stings, don't it?

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    It means that Christianity teaches pacifism in response to insult rather than combat. Application and interest varies by specific believer however.
     
  11. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    insult toward christanity?
    on the contrary, if you are muslim, you have to respect the other relegions and ther other's choice

    so do islam, it says, if the ignorants talked to you, or insulted, ignore them, or something like that
    i think it's like that, and if the ignorants talked to you say "salama" means, peace
    and also, if someone said an insult to you, ignore him, but also, you must let your self reach that line where people insult you
     
  12. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    what point? you pointed that islam is only for arabs or it's just an arabic thing

    so you're talking about the non relegion tolerance? hmm, so, what about in tunisia, or other countries, maybe egypte?

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    there are synagogs and churches here
    and, why KSA exactly you chose? ( if about the holy mecca, it's the muslims holy land, i think it's ok that it would be a church their, or anyother relegion that beleive in only one god, and none but god)
    and ever thought about, that for example there are not many budhist if there is, to build a temple for them ?

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    yes, islam is for everyone


    revelation from god
    and i know what do you want to reach with that, you want to convince me or say that the holy quran was just a poet production or something
    and quran was the same from 1400 years, and it's hardly orgenized, and coded if you want to say, like, a security code, if you change in it, you can find it by numbers

    http://www.quranmiracles.org/19/19read.asp?id=8
    http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_03.html
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/fakir60/fakir60.htm


    you have your relegion, and i have my relegion, i'm not worshiping what you are worshiping(or you're not worshiping any anyway, inless you worship only one god and none but god) and you're not worshiping what i am worshiping
     
  13. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    So tell some of your coreligionists about this essential point. In the meantime: sucks to be on the other side, huh?

    I believe this is an entirely possible message in Islam. I do have to ask it's source, however. And we can't forget that as written it also allows violence, conditional on defining what an "attack" is. The most reserved measurement would be physical attack alone; but this is not the way conservatives interpret it, and not merely radicals.
     
  14. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    you mean a proove from the quran or the prophet Mohamed (pbuh) quotes?
    here's some from many

    “…There is no compulsion in religion…” (Quran 2:256)

    "O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." Chapter 49, Verse 13



    source: http://english.islammessage.com/articledetails.aspx?articleId=649

    and here's a good documentary
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0IaCK-7z5o&feature=related


    yes, it allows violence, only in the condition, of self defence, if someone attacked you, what will you do? and you can only kill in self defence, in extreme cases, killing in self defence, is the last, the very last option that you would do.
    violence in war: you must never kill or hitt a woman or a child or an elder, and you musnt kill or cut a tree or an animal for no reason


    and in war and etc... anyway it's agoo article


    this is an article i found it in english, hope it says things
    i hope that that gave an answer


    and as you see, till now, two muslim arab countries, kicked their dicators, peacefully, the goverments are who made the violence
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  15. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    "for the right way is free of compulsion. [Quran 2:256]"

    Any reason you left off the last part of that cite? Is it the same reason Islamic reactionaries leave it off; to avoid mentioning the implicit if cynical conclusion that can be drawn from it: that force isn't force, since no one could logically be forced to believe the truth.

    And it is a bad article. In the conditions of peace, it doesn't mention Quran 9:29 at all, and it doesn't have - as it cannot have - any final point on what "defence" constitutes. Is it an attack if I attack you? Of course. How about if I start an anti-Islamist (not "anti-Islamic") party? How about if I object to occupation and colonization? If I call for a settlement freeze, is that attack? How about if I insult Mohammed? Some Islamic countries do indeed consider that an attack. Societal inertia or self-interested cynicism, it still amounts to the same thing.
     
  16. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    yeah i edited my post manytimes, read it again now.

    and there's no reason i left that "part" or whatever
    and in islam, you musnt force someone to enter that beleif, because you know he will never do if you force him to, and on the contrary, he will hate it
    and beleiving is by heart not by looks so you can force him to pertend to be muslim or whatever
    first, it's your duty to respect my beleifs as i do respect yours, occupation and colonization, i think that is called attacking no? so, you say, you attack my country, and i stay doing nothing, and say welcome welcome, like those arab gulf countries leaders (i mean, the pets of israel and usa) ?
    call to settlment freeze: that mean you already attacked that country
    make an anti-islam party (that means, against the relegious freedom, even an anti-jews party i will not accept it, you saw what happened when the french ambassador wanted to make a problem of different relegions in tunisia, see this thread http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=106540): yes, you attacked my beleif, but that doesnt mean to attack you physicly

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    the way you attack me in, is the way i would defend myself in, i will try to discuss you, and discuss you, and if it is useless, as it says, if the ignorants talked to you, say peace.
     
  17. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    It still doesn't have the full quote of Q2: 256.

    So why is conversion one of the acceptable penalties for insulting Islam? I appreciate your firm devotion to non-violence; but you must accept at the same time that conservative Islam doesn't follow the same line, and that it is not exactly uncommon.
     
  18. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

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    conservative islam? i am conservative for your information, and we are conservative here according to your standars
    but if you mean, the so called "islam" that are fanatic yes i know what you mean, and to make you undertsand more, it's all related to politics, and infact, i saw how in my country, they tryed to make the islamists party like if they are who maked a protestations saying hate speach infront of synagog or killing a priest, and bulldozing a mosque as if jews did it, as i said, go to that link i gave you it's all their, now i realised, it IS all politics, they must make the people fear the islamists, and they must make islamists fanatism, to make the west think like if without them, the arab world will be a ground for terrorism and fanatism, i tell you,n it's all bullshits, and the so called "islam" that you mean, have nothing to do with islam, so gadafi is muslim, and the other arab dictators, are muslims, well, muslims just because they are born muslims, but they are hypocrites, anyway, does it mean that it is islam that tell them that?
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Are you? Death penalty for apostates, reduced human rights for women and non-Muslims, and so forth?

    Well, it does and doesn't have something to do with Islam: it's not for nothing it occurs in so many Islamic countries, from thousands of years ago until today. Comprehensive reformation is needed, but in order to accomplish this it's important for all Muslims to realize that their religion does contain enough scriptural leeway for this to happen. If you consider them hypocrites: well and good. This is encouraging. But it doesn't eliminate what they are, or where they draw their perspectives from. In short: reform.
     
  20. Yosef Registered Senior Member

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    What is bad about preaching ?!

    If it is going to increase God's love to him (and his love to God), and possibly save some people of the fire.

    It is the truth. God does exist. More evident for me than ever. You know who is making this declaration.

    I am talking to all.. best wishes

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  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    It's against forum policy.

    Hmm. IF. It's a big word - covers the possibility he's just flapping his lips for the sake of it, too.
    Fire?
    Preaching saves you from fires? Damn. Maybe fire-fighters should go on oratory courses.

    No.

    Supposition.

    That's the problem. It's evident to you. Not to me and numerous others.

    You.
    (Did I get that right?)
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    No, you made that up in your head.
    Islam is extremely intolerant of most other people's cultures and is not for everyone - it's only for Muslims.

    Buddhist Temples in Japan provide Shinto Shrines to the local deity.
    Shinto Shrines provide Buddhist priests with places to meditate and pray.

    Muslims on the other hand had a made-up "glorious" history whereby some crank called Mohammad instructed a bunch of thugs to destroy Arab polytheist temples. Sadly, Muslims don't see this as horribly but as wonderful. How pathetic. You know, just like the Muslims who destroyed those 2500 year old Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. You do know that to many Buddhist those were the equivalent of Mecca to Muslims. Of course, Muslims don't give two shits about those statues and were probably happy to see them destroyed. So, no, Islam is definitely NOT for everyone. It's ONLY for Muslims.

    I said no Harry Potter.
    I asked for peer-reviewed and you post "quranmicacles.org" propaganda?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  23. -ND- Human Prototype Registered Senior Member

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    Are those who know, to be considered equal to those who do not know? Only prudent men reflect [on this]-Quran.

    I think not and I have reflected on it.

    Chi, why do you waste your time on them?
     

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