The Future of Russia and China?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Quantum Quack, Mar 15, 2022.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    It could be argued that one of the most important protocol difference between the USA, Russian and Chinese governmental systems is the duration of which a President can lead for.

    In the USA, I believe it is for two terms, thus limiting the amount of time the government conforms to a presidential influence. In Russia and China there appears no limit other than the presidents mortality and will as to how long the relevant governments conform to his/her influence.

    As witnessed over history when a dictator falls, dies or is other wise disposed of, the country he had been in control of tends to disintegrate. A good example would be the consequences of the death of the President of Yugoslavia, Josip Broz Tito, who ruled Yugoslavia as President between 1953 until his death in 1980 (88).

    The break up of the Yugoslavia was devastating yet entirely necessary as like most dictators Tito failed to allow for appropriate succession.

    Given the situation in Ukraine currently it is easy to forget that the Russian president is indeed mortal and appears to have no specific nor published plan for succession however Russia today is much of Putin's (69) making and I wonder what will happen when he is no longer in control.

    The same could be said for the leadership of Xi Jinping (68) whom exerts a tremendous influence on the Chinese systems of Government and people.

    Perhaps we all can do with a reminder that Putin And Xi are both mortal and do have a limited life span and that the issue is about ongoing local and global stability when allowing one person to be so influential over such extended time and that person is no longer able to perform their duties.

    Erdagon (67) of Turkey and a few others come to mind as well.

    The USA on the other hand sacrifices a degree of political stability for fixed terms and thus is able to avoid being considered as a dictatorship. Perhaps a small degree of instability is better for stable continuation of a constitution devoted government over the longer term?

    Ukraine:
    I wonder if Putin has seriously considered what happens to Ukraine after he has destroyed most of it's infrastructure and housing. Has he considered the legacy he will leave for the Russian people after he leaves the leadership when the inevitable demand for reparations are made in the next 10-20 years or so or sooner and thus demonstrating the true cost of this futile Ukraine war to the Russian people he is supposedly serving.


    Car to discuss?
     
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  3. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yugoslavia was destroyed by US just as they did and still trying to do in many other countries.
    Kosovo rings a bell ?
    With Russia US biten of more then we can handle,ruski will not be pushed around and Putin can easily find another capable leader.

    Russia is LARGEST country in the world and self sufficient in all natural resources.
    Big competition to Us thats why all the red scare bs. Same w China.

    Btw Rusia military doesnt want to destroy Ukraine only replace its leader,thats why its going slow and targets only military while avoiding hurting civilians and infrastructure.
    Ukrainians and rusian are brothers after all.

    Zelensky is a neo nazi clown instaled by CIA in blood coup and is responsible for murder of 14.000 rusians and destroying Ukr economy while enriching foreign imperialists.including Biden jr






    China Xi is NOT lone dictator as some brainwashed americans are led to believe. There are THOUSANDS of CCP member who all are working together to make their country economy succesful. Watch CGTN instead of Fox nonsense.
     
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  5. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    It could be argued, but not convincingly, I think.

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    China only removed term limits for president in 2018. Since 1990 or so there was a 2-term limit (total of 10 years). They cod do this because Xi had amassed so much power in the party that no-one dared challenge him. Same with Putin.

    The term limit is really just a symptom of the politics in the country. Both China and Russia have a one-party system (e.g. through oppression of any alternative party), while US is 2-party.

    It's not inconceivable, even if highly unlikely, that the US system might result in a president with the overwhelming support of Congress, senate, and the people, and then seek to override the constitution with an amendment of term limits and/or length. But at the moment one party doesn't have that power, and the president doesn't have that power within their party.

    So I think looking at term limits is to look at symptoms and not the actual issue, that being that they operate a system of government that more easily leads to a single person having sufficient power to effectively abolish term limits to their own benefit.
     
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  7. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    What about Russia's economy? I mean, it's headed for the shitter, last I heard.
    What do you think Russian people will think when their children start dying because they can't afford hospital treatment, or afford to see a doctor, or buy medicine? What about all the people who won't be able to buy food?

    Maybe Putin will start selling weapons to China . . . ?
     
  8. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    I'm guessing you do know how much of a troll you seem to be, and are doing it on purpose, regurgitating the "party line" for effect, right? Or do you genuinely believe the propaganda you're spouting rather than following, oh, I don't know, the actual facts?
    You mean the actor and comedian Zelensky, who in 2014 had no political aspirations, and between 2014 and 2019 was starring in a tv show about a comedian who became president... only for his producers to mimic the show and create an actual political party with the same name as in the show? You mean the same Zelensky who had no apparent involvement in the 2014 uprising, the annexation of Crimea by Russia, nor the internal struggle in the East, and who only really became a prominent figure in Ukrainian politics when he announced his candidacy (and seen as rank outsider) for president on 31/12/18. That Zelensky?? The one who spoke out against the decision of the then-government to ban Russian artists and works of culture from Ukraine? That Zelensky?? The one who won the presidency with c.75% of the vote in the second round, on a ticket of anti-establishment and anti-corruption. That Zelensky???
    The "neo-nazi" who is of Jewish parentage?
    That Zelensky????

    Or is there another Zelensky you're referring to?

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    Trolls do as trolls do, I guess.
     
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  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I suppose all those video and images depicting cities being destroyed are fake??!!
    ..and you believe Russia has a right to over rule the vote for a sovereign nations elected government? The right to choose who governs another nation?
    It is going slow because of Russian logistics ineptitude and solid resistance to illegal Russian occupation. Oh yes of course fighting a battle is one thing, maintaining control of the occupied space is another. Surely Putin knows the ole saying, you may "win the battle but lose the war"
    I am amazed you consider displacing the majority of the population, bombing hospitals and schools, taking control of Nuclear power stations etc as being somehow harmless to civilians and infrastructure.

    Thankfully, Putin and his cronies are mortal and we only have to endure them for so long...
    How old do you think Putin will be when he steps down as president of Russia?
    How long before the protection he has offered collaborators and trolls evaporates ?
    Tell that to the pilots dropping cluster munitions, the gun loaders in the tanks etc... "Hey Bro' how 's it hangin'?"
    Domestic violence must be the Putin way?

    If any thing justifies the need for NATO, this war in Ukraine is a great example.
    There is every chance that Ukraine will become a member of NATO after they force Russia into bankruptcy as (c)old school Putin attempts to control the land his forces are occupying and you can blame it all on Putin.
    What we are seeing is that due to Putin's/Russian aggression the world war machine is gearing up. Nations are rapidly increasing their military spending and fortifications. The greatest beneficiary of all this will be the USA no doubt. You don't need a clandestine New World Order conspiracy when you have someone like Putin.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
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  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,318
    Saudi Arabia has agreed to sell China oil in Yuans
    (there goes the petro dollar) (Biden is an idiot)
    and
    We in the USA will get to pay for his idiocy,
    as the dollar falls

    or
    (I could be wrong)
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    37,193
    Fact check:
    From memory, the only US involvement there was as part of UN peacekeeping force, wasn't it?
    Putin will probably be pushed out in a coup. That's the usual fate of dictators. Unless a revolution occurs, of course. Russia had a chance at democracy. Perhaps it still does.
    It is going slow because Putin and probably the Russian army badly underestimated the resistance they would face from Ukrainians. Putin is surrounded by people who are afraid to tell him the truth, because they are afraid of making him angry.

    As for the propaganda bit about only targeting valid military targets, you must be living in (or at least trying to promote) an alternate universe from the rest of us. The Russian military is busy committing numerous war crimes as we speak. Targeting civilians is a large part of that. These things are being documented. With luck, criminal prosecutions will take place later in international courts and the people responsible will face some measure of justice for their crimes.
    This is a lie that you have already been corrected on. Why do you continue to repeat it? You can't claim ignorance any more.
    Of course! To have any kind of political power in China, one is required to be a CCP member.

    Every authoritarian regime has thousands of members working together for a common cause. Primary amongst their aims is to stay in power. That doesn't, of course, mean that they are incapable of doing some good things as well. Corruption wastes resources that would be better used elsewhere, but it doesn't absorb everything.
     
  12. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    2,343
    Though an old-fashioned, dying board like Sciforums would seem well off the beaten track for them, the research establishment would accordingly not be bothering to tally their presence in places like this, anyway.

    How China’s social media influencers push propaganda on TikTok, Facebook, Youtube, Instagram, etc
    https://apnews.com/article/china-ti...s-propaganda-81388bca676c560e02a1b493ea9d6760

    EXCERPTS: As China continues to assert its economic might, it is using the global social media ecosystem to expand its already formidable influence. The country has quietly built a network of social media personalities who parrot the government’s perspective in posts seen by hundreds of thousands of people, operating in virtual lockstep as they promote China’s virtues, deflect international criticism of its human rights abuses and advance Beijing’s talking points on world affairs like Russia’s war against Ukraine.

    [...] Tye and Sterzel say the exchange pulls back the curtain on how China pushes propaganda through influencers who profit from it. “There’s a very easy formula to become successful,” Sterzel said in an interview. “It’s simply to praise the Chinese government, to praise China and talk about how great China is and how bad the West is.” (MORE - details)​
     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,218
    i was told by a russian woman that russia is run by organized crime
    so if thats the case then it will be very volatile when putin goes

    #1 theory is succession for stability
    but thats not how most human groups work

    its always about individual power & those trying to grab it at any price.

    he currently has high approval ratings
    he needs to bring in an apprentice asap
    but thats not how they think and that wont be how the people think who they would select someone like that from.
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    37,193
    Following on from this, I'd like to address scorpius directly.

    Think about this, scorpius: even though you're obviously a propaganda mouthpiece, we haven't banned you from this forum, yet. Now, think about what would happen if your circumstances were flipped around and you were trying to post western propaganda into Chinese media. How long do you think you'd last on Weibo or whatever, if you were blatantly posting the kind of propaganda you're delivering here (except making it pro-US and anti-China)?

    You have the good fortune to have access to - probably live in - a country that allows you freedom of speech. The citizenship in general values free speech, even to the extent of allowing obvious trolls like yourself to have your say. Yet here you are, constantly advocating for repressive regimes that stifle the very speech you rely on. Why do you do it? I'm truly interested. Is it just money? Are you threatened? Or is there some other reward in it for you?
     
  15. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    545
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real-cuban-missile-crisis/309190/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_War
     
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  16. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    545
    It looks like Russia and China are doing exactly what the US has done in the past to protect its borders.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    How long ago?
    and what exactly are you referring to...that is relevant to 2022?
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    To me, it looks like Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an expansionist exercise. Russia is trying to gain territory (or, as Putin sees it, regain it, whether the people of Ukraine want to be part of Russia or not).

    Meanwhile, China is trying to take control of the South China Sea. It's been busy creating new islands on which to build military bases.

    When was the last time the US invaded another nation in an attempt to expand its borders? Both Iraq and Afganistan are still independent countries, for instance. Russia, on the other hand, is certainly claiming that Ukraine is properly a part of Russia.

    But I digress. What does your response have to do with what I wrote to scorpius? It reads like a complete non sequitur.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Late 1800's the over throwing and annexation of the kingdom of Hawaii
     
  20. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    James R, I wrote about protecting borders not expanding them so your non sequitur is based purely on your own straw man argument.

    Quantum Quack, if you think that what I referred to has nothing to do with 2022 then you will be surprised.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia...ssful-military-infrastructure-cuba-venezuela/
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry for the confusion. You were responding to JamesR's comment addressed to scorpius who was claiming expansion and not border protection.
    Expansion into the Eastern parts of Ukraine etc.
    I was mistaken in believing your commentary was relevant to the current discussion about expansionism. (Russian Empire building) and felt you were possibly claiming a hypocrisy.

    In other words the terms "cross purpose" may be relevant.
     
  22. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, this is 2022: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/05/world/zelensky-ukraine-united-nations-speech-intl/index.html

    :EDIT:

    "In barrels, strangled and tortured"
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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