The fox and chicken paradox

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, May 14, 2017.

  1. Ted Grant II Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    As everybody knows, foxes love chickens. Given that a fox could eat many chickens, it follows that there must be many more chickens than foxes (assuming that's all they eat).

    If you ask a theologian why there are foxes (or any other carnivore), you might get the answer that the sin of Adam and Eve caused to world to be "broken", they brought sin into the world and that's why foxes eat chickens. Apparently, before the "fall", foxes used to be vegetarians and probably eat grass.

    If you study the anatomy of carnivores and herbivores , you will find significant differences. Some herbivores have complex digestive systems because their food is so poor. In addition, herbivores have to eat all day long, whereas carnivores can spend much of their time sleeping, because their food is so rich. There are obvious advantages of meat as a source of food, but it does involve that ungodly business of killing. I cannot believe that the sin of Adam and Eve could be the cause of the ugly business of carnivore anatomy and behavior.
    I just don't see the connection.

    Given the facts of life, it seems difficult to believe that a single god designed both foxes and chickens.
    Imagine his planning ideas. He wanted foxes to be fast, cunning and have the equipment for killing chickens.
    On the other hand, he wanted chickens to detect the scent of a fox, run away or perhaps fly away, so he equipped them accordingly. In other words, he had contrary objectives.

    In order to escape from this paradox, I propose that there must be two gods.
    A chicken god, who is nice and a fox god who is nasty.

    This easily explains all the puzzles in creation.

    The chicken god makes pretty sunsets and rainbows.
    The fox god makes earthquakes and malaria.

    Unfortunately, I like chicken with rice, so I don't know which god to worship.
     
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  3. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Worship just the Chicken on Monday Wednesday and Friday

    Worship just the Rice on Tuesday Thursday and Saturday

    Not the gods

    just Chicken

    just Rice

    Rest on Sunday

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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Aren't vegetarians evil then by raising defenseless plants in killing fields just to eat them?

    If so, I guess I'm worshiping the banana God right now.
     
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  7. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Agree most plants are defenseless

    Some have prickles or are poisonous but that entails some of the plants to be sacrificed for the remaining to survive

    And of course the active Venus fly trap

    How about we genetically modified them up in size?

    First up to bunny rabbit and groundhog size

    Then up to fox size

    There are more than 500 varieties of banana plants in the world. The most common kinds are Dwarf Cavendish, Valery, and Williams Hybrid bananas.

    Other types of bananas include Apple and a small red banana called the Red Jamaica

    https://australianbananas.com.au/Pages/all-about-bananas/banana-varieties

    Well you have a nice choice of gods

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  8. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    13,512
    There 333 trillion gods.

    <>
     
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

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    4,750
    what's evil/corrupt is the 'whole' system altogether. consider the rules of the game.

    the best one can do is use that awareness to live as ethically as possible within the framework we did not choose or design.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  10. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    6,875
    Have you ever read "The Log of the Ark"? : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Log_of_the_Ark

    A lot of your ideas of how theologians might argue about carnivorous creatures seem rather similar to that story.

    It was a children's book, of course.

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  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That's where you draw the line with the plausibility of Adam and Eve and Eden?

    The rest of it's all fine, but you balk at ... foxes?

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  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    That would be garbage theology.
     
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  13. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    6,875
    Exactly. Just about all organisms grow by consuming other organisms and the dividing line at which that is seen to become cruel is inevitably arbitrary.

    The whole thing is a childish straw man (or Aunt Sally, pace Yazata), since no serious theology of the Fall argues anything like this. But this poster is a bit obsessed. Did you see his recent thread about nailing chickens (dead I think) to pieces of wood? That was rather hilarious. I recommend it.
     
  14. Seaman Registered Member

    Messages:
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    This is just a guess. Given that the universe is finite but unbounded, the number of religions is probably very large, but there is only one God
     
  15. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    We have a 333 trillion guess

    We have a 1 guess

    Any other guesses out there?

    Don't be shy the guessing game is open to all

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  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    The universe is infinite.

    <>
     
  17. sowhatifit'sdark Valued Senior Member

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    2,162
    I'm not a Christian but this seems odd to me. I have a desk. In that desk I have a stapler AND a staple remover. It seems like two people must use this desk, but they don't. I have a bathroom with no windows and a living room with lots. I have a bike and a car. I have a cat and a dog. I have a garden with flowers, but also frogs. I mean, perhaps God wanted a complicated environment. Perhaps he wanted nature to reflect to humans some of their fallibilities or options for attitude. Perhaps......and I am sure there could be many other explanations.

    Of course I love William Blake and he asked this question in a wonderful manner - note the second to last stanza, last two lines...

    The Tyger

    BY WILLIAM BLAKE
    Tyger Tyger, burning bright,
    In the forests of the night;
    What immortal hand or eye,
    Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

    In what distant deeps or skies.
    Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
    On what wings dare he aspire?
    What the hand, dare seize the fire?

    And what shoulder, & what art,
    Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
    And when thy heart began to beat,
    What dread hand? & what dread feet?

    What the hammer? what the chain,
    In what furnace was thy brain?
    What the anvil? what dread grasp,
    Dare its deadly terrors clasp!

    When the stars threw down their spears
    And water'd heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    Tyger Tyger burning bright,
    In the forests of the night:
    What immortal hand or eye,
    Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
     
  18. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Having a stapler & staple remover does not make it seem 2 people use the desk. Same with having a cat & a dog & all the rest.

    Perhaps god is powerful yet stupid and/or insane.

    <>
     
  19. Vociferous Registered Member

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    343
    Or "the fall" was only from Adam and Eve's innocence, to them becoming capable of moral judgement. The animals never changed.
    And if "designed", animals form a chain of energy conversion, from less to more efficient sources.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,611
    I believe you fundamentally understand the metaphor, however, ....Moral judgement about what?

    What changed is our Intelligence, IMO, but that does not imply "moral judgement". It implies that we divorced ourselves from the then natural state and were able to create our own environment, more or less divorced from the natural state. Which prompted the next metaphor of being kicked out from Eden. IMO.
     
  21. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    13,512
    ^^^
    IF god is moral & must send most humans to hell, evidently they did not become capable of moral judgement.

    <>
     
  22. Vociferous Registered Member

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    343
    How so? Does "capable" mean "will" or "must"?
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    5,611
    Which also brings up the next question if chickens go to heaven and foxes go to hell.
     

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