The Final Solution

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by gendanken, Mar 8, 2003.

  1. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Say we landed a rover on Mars, and say we had better quality cameras more durable than the Viking mission and say all current surveyors had a resoultion in the centimeters (highly improbable, but anway). Also suppose that packed with so much we put a web cam on one of its dried riverberds. And now suppose the nightwatch at mission control suddenly looks up to find there's a mantis looking insect on the camera lens, as it happens to many a meteorolgist during his broadcast.

    Its all very well to suffer the bloody battles between religious and scientific camps and we've been having them for ages. But something like this and the fact that we've found 28 extrasolar planets so far I believe will deal all our gods the final blow.
     
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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    I believe will deal all our gods the final blow.

    Highly unlikely. You don’t understand the ignorance and magnitude of religious fanaticism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2003
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  5. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    You, much like religious zealots , have no business dabbling with "obviouslies".

    You perhaps have overlooked that the only people around nowadays that keep the true spirit of curiosity alive are those that really do want to find out and these people, myself among them and many a kindred spirit, belive that more answers lie out in space than they do in Psalms or commandments.

    Religion on the mind makes a talking head, as does sophism in your case. Whatever they know, they want you to know that they know. Whatever all those other do and ultimately find, they'd tell you becuase you're down to know just as they are.

    Ignorance has no say in what we put out there to find out and down here to keep finding.
     
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  7. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    "....tell you becuase you're down to know just as they are"


    Bloody hell. That was supposed to say "..tell you becuase you're dying to know just as they are."
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    those that really do want to find out and these people, myself among them and many a kindred spirit, belive that more answers lie out in space than they do in Psalms or commandments.

    Perhaps Psalms and commandments contain the answers you’re seeking. The bible can be interpreted in many ways, maybe even extra-terrestrially. Was this stuff simply conjured up from the imaginations of ordinary men, or did they really experience something not of this earth?

    Religion on the mind makes a talking head

    That’s a good one. I like it.

    as does sophism in your case

    That’s twice you’ve asserted sophism –yet failed to point out.

    Whatever they know, they want you to know that they know. Whatever all those other do and ultimately find, they'd tell you becuase you're down to know just as they are.

    Hmmm… seems you’ve cornered the market on “obviously.”

    Ignorance has no say in what we put out there to find out and down here to keep finding.

    Wouldn’t that depend on what we see and how we interpret it?

    An insect on mars, bringing down in one fell swoop centuries of accepted doctrine, is rather ambitious optimism in the extreme, don’t you think?

    You, much like religious zealots , have no business dabbling with "obviouslies".

    Good point – I’ll promptly remove it.
     
  9. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    "Was this stuff simply conjured up from the imaginations of ordinary men, or did they really experience something not of this earth? "

    There's a backwoods road I take on my way home. There are absolutely no lights there and driving down it I purposely turn the lights off. That's what the earth looks like. That's what it is. Its a snatch of black space yawning over you and its frightening. Its the place our ancestors could do nothing about. It's where the mouth started going off and stories got started and, if you ask me, all these bloodletting years later all that storytelling's got alot of mischief to answer for.

    I came here assuming that the lot of us agree on religion's basic function being that of crowd control and took for granted the idea that we all wish to swallow the world on our own terms. I assumed this place a commune of people who not only find first cause to be the little fucker its been so hard to contend with but have actually lost sleep over it becasue they really want to know.
    I wasn't expecting to tangle with the Falwells or the Billy Grahams.
    The post was intended for those stuck in limbo- not necessarily agnostic, becuase to label yourself one you've given up the search and don't care either way and its not for those who've wagered as Pascal did either. And what better place to find just those people than here. Well, so I thought , anyway.

    There are as many theories as there are roaches but the basic premise is that life is either spiritually divined or an incredible mechanical improbability.

    If I painted the background in ranibow, changed mediums, and painted a rainbow on top of it you'd never know I did. If a Jew, a Shiite, and a Christian walk away safely from a shootout believing they're special on account of providence, who is?
    For us to be special in so big a place we have to always have those gloomy pictures beamed back from Voyager. We have to always have diseased relatives to appreciate how healthy we are.
    There's a nasty four letter word at the root of the problem - LIFE. And if god is my maker, the earth my legacy, and bipedalism the only way that it should be then goddammit what the hell is he doing siring other worlds for? I'm the rainbow. No?
    A fell swoop on account of an insect is as likely to blow away the god of a Baptist as he's likely to have a gay in his home. Surely you didn't think I was meaning them. People that won't change their minds can't change anything.
    I don't know what your take is on life, the universe, and everything and on what ground it stands on but with me, as with some people people (more like 3) that can't wait to know, knowing all there is about this planet to find life somwere else -FINALLY- would be both tantalizing and a slap on the face. It would be something like closure or a sign that its actually- FINALLY- close.

    What do you think?
     
  10. spookz Banned Banned

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    "There are absolutely no lights there and driving down it I purposely turn the lights off."

    i used to do that. pitchblack highway. end up kinda shaky from the thrill!

    i also think hindu gods believe in aliens. shit maybe they were aliens
     
  11. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    It seems that Ezekiel was a bit of a crackhead himself. He would lay on the filthy streets on one side of his face rattling on about god for an amount of time (40 days I think), change sides and start the godspeak all over again. He also saw a metallic machine with metallic wheels and what most interpret to be alien beings and would read bones like the ancient soothsayers read the entrails of animals. Either the man had a serious chemical imbalance or bad glands, or some naughty somebody laced his weed with mescaline.
     
  12. shadows technocrat:Teach me Registered Senior Member

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    yes but religious extremism fades, it just takes a thousand or so years for that to start happening as most people are so thickheaded.
     
  13. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    !!

    Yes, thousands of years.... but c'mon godammit!
    Would't that do away with any last notions that YOU, not SHADOWS or Q or SPOOKS, but the people who've logged on to sciforums under those tags- wouldn't that do away with what you cling becuase you just don't fucking know yet?

    wouldn't it taint what you currently know .....? a drop?
    Fuck it-

    srew the philosophical hoopla- what would life elsewhere do to you? Would it patch up the holes in your thinking or shit on them?
     
  14. spookz Banned Banned

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    its kinda strange but i feel my current intellectual endeavours would be best served by forging an alliance with the theists. i find them useful.
     
  15. Colb Registered Member

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    truth

    Hey gendanken, your ideas are very cool to review. I have a bit of a theory that I like to excersize when I remember: everything has something much larger that it is an off shoot of, like roots from a tree. Except in the known universe, there is nothing but roots. The universe could be, in space time, and atom, making up another universe, and this may explaing dealing with religion and physics. They are both a conception of a larger truth, and lead to the same place eventually, and however far apart they may seem on the spectrum, there are still many things much farther apart. As long as people do the same thing with religion as they do with physics (and why shouldn't they do both), than we can get the same thing out of each. Beware, however, for as all paths lead to the same truth, this one truth ahead can be easily distorted and, thus, lead us in the wrong direction. Logic fails us here, and we must, thus, switch over to our left brain again. Too many people but their religion in there right brain to explaing things, and have no theory on the mechanics of the world around them. This may make them unbalanced and fanatical... another off shoot of my main subject, the one I think I may have gotten off track of. Maybe it would be smart for us humans to learn everything we can.
     
  16. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    If you're specultating on 'bubble theory' drop it. The theory's got holes in it you can drive a truck throught, it having been trampled by an obnoxious many in the scinetific community. Only scavengers go back to pick on what's left.

    Sorry to be so blount, but that seems what you're getting at. When I took my very first science courses I was astounded to see the similarities between atomic structure and the configurations of our own solar system. And it was there, in the world of science, that for some reason I found people more religiously fanatic than on I did on Sundays, cropping up new theories right and left with nothing to base them on, trying tooth and nail to marry religion and science and wanting to fight about it. It got boring.
    So don't do it. Well, you will anyway but you're shooting your own foot off.

    Remeber too that its NOT atomic structre. It's Bohr's structure. Taking up quantum mechanics you'll find that the micro wolrld is one so bizzare that even Thorn could be right. Even einstein.
     
  17. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    Oh- one more thing (I feel like Culombo)

    Have you read the Lopisded Ape? Michael Corbalis, 1996 ( I think).

    If you haven't and since you've brought up the whole left-right brain thing here's a synopse: he's got a fasninating theory of why we're the only rationalizing mammals on this planent. He belives that the use of the hands, directly linked with opposite sides of the brain gave our brain a work out. Given that 95% of any population, cross-culturally and transgender-wise are right handed, he points to the possibily that homininds having preference for the right hand for some reason long ago left a legacy to our immediate ancestors for doing do the same. The use of the right hand through the ages has pumped the analytic left side of the sapien's brain to cognizance, so to speak. It's this wad of overworked brain matter that sired the invention of language.

    Anwyway, for what it's worth I have joke about it I can't share with anyone because I think it's a given we're surrounded by people who'd rather be channel surfing instead.
    I was picturing a hairy little hominid with his right hand at his throat choking the words out from his hairy little body.
     
  18. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    20 bucks says you're right handed.
     
  19. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    spookz-

    I once told a little old church lady that her grandson took karate lessons for the same reasons she goes to church. It keeps him off the streets and and off drugs, and if religion is what keeps his rowdy vagabond friends off my property too, then I'd use it to just like you, spookz.

    Well, I didn't just come RIGHT out and say it like that as much as it was implied. But im telling you, there's no devil, diablo, Lucifer or Hades that could give me the look she gave me that day.
     
  20. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    What would you do if science proved that there 'was' a creator?

    It wouldn't necessarily be the god of any religion that humans practice though.
     
  21. gendanken Ruler of All the Lands Valued Senior Member

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    I'd want a picture and an autograph.

    Kidding

    If we can't catch him directly a field analysis should do him in. When's the last time we've ever actually seen an electron? Never. But you and I know they're there. Without them the electronic rip letting me ride through the internet to post here on sciforums would be flim-flam.

    Ever seen a black hole? No. But the stars insist something's definitely there.

    Want to know something? I had a dream once that I met him. He came into my room late at night, touched my face and pulled my thumb. And I have no idea why I woke up feeling that it was "God" himself that I'd just met. My dream never hinted who we was.
    And no. I didn't see his face.
     

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