Because different drugs have different effects. I use to use amphetimines to keep me awake and give me energy for all night raves and house parties which would last 2-3 days. Even caffeine wouldn't keep me awake that long, no matter how much I drank. But at the end of the day, I agree with you. Meth is bad and can be unpredictable just like any other street drug. Which is why I stopped using it along with all the other pharmaceutical cocktails I used to consume. I had my fun and it was time to stop. But before that time, no amount of anti-drug hysteria would have done any more than perhaps slow me down a little. I wouldn't have believed it because of all the bullshit anti-drug propaganda that has been spouted by those 'in the know' in the past. Facts beat hysteria. Presenting only the worse case scenarios to people doesn't help the anti-drug cause one little bit, because people can see with their own eyes and through their own experiences that what they're being told is a mis-representation of the truth. So they tend to write off all the information given by that particular source as 'hype'.
I've never done meth, hadn't planned on it..and thanks to these pictures, absolutely never will. Sure its hysteria, but these pics are the worst case scenario which I **have** seen in a lot of street people downtown. Maybe you don't notice it, ScRaMbLe because meth is much more widely available here. Plus its probably tainted... You say you know doctors who do hard drugs? Like, foot doctors, or real physicians and specialists?
Yes, this information will prevent the people who are in the lower risk demographic from taking meth, but they probably wouldn't have taken it anyway. In the rave/club scene the visible evidence is to the contrary of what is being presented by the authorities. Everyone is on something, in a crowd of a 1000, perhaps a couple might have visible ill effects. So the hype is disregarded as hype because effects of long term sustained use are not apparent and considered to be confined to the realm of junkies, homeless and worst case scenarios.
There are 2 kinds of meth out there. Red Phose meth- this one is the toxic very toxic makes are normaly covered with burns from the red phose and is made indoors. Most of the time this dope has a pink color to it. But both kinds can be pink because some of the pills that can be used have a red sugar coating. Anny meth- This one is less toxic then red phose almost all but 2 of the chelmicals used to make it are already enjested in some form or another by humans. But it still poses very big health risks the 1 of the chems that is used evaporates so it goes into the air after it as broken down sub components. the second one is not directly added to the meth but is used in a sub reaction to get the meth out of suspention. This version is very explosive durring the making prosses and should be only etempted outside. but some people are stupid and get killed making it endoors. Most casual users just experance loss of weight and loss of apitite. Also after 3 or 4 days with out eating they get sick and say the dope was bad. Logic would say that the fact that they are not eating might be why they are sick. Heavy uses stay up for weeks at a time. Are very parinode and start to see things. They Tend to tweak out and ether build stuff or take stuff apart. Or set them selfs to a task to the exemtion of all else. This is where the brain damage starts going weeks with out sleep along with a constant strain on your heart from the drugs. Along with the brain cells that are damaged from using the drug way more then they should ever be used. Long time heavy users are age fast also lose body mass as well as teeth from 2 factors 1 they lose intrest in brushing there teeth there are alwasy tweaking on somthing or 2 meth leaches calsiam and potasium out of the body and if not replace can cause damage. At this stage of the game they are more or less dead to the world there brains are so shot there is no point in saving them. It can take years to get to this point. If you are going to use meth here are some basic dosage and usage tid bits.. If you don't want to become a hard core user never use more then a dime or 2 in a night. And don't take more the next day to keep you awake. Be tuff and hold out to the next night before sleep. keeps your cycles right. smoking meth is the least effective way to getting meth into your body. But it is also the safest. You can only smoke meth so fast it is also used as a socal activity. Your body also lets you know when you are getting to the limit of your bodys ablity to handle the drug. Normaly warning signs are muscles twiching with out you telling them too. Stop smoking drug for a hour or so and the twiching will stop. You can tell meth smokers be the fact they always have pens on them and the normaly have black smuges on there faces along with always finding bits of aluminum foil around. This is only if they don't have a glass piple and a jet liter. snorting meth is much for effective then smoking but it burns like you just lit the side of your face on fire. Also you can OD on this because once its in your body there no way for you get it out. Also you get a bad tast in the back of your mouth. Heavy uses normaly use it this way becuase smoking as become less effective for them. Eating Meth his is alittle more effective then snorting but it as a time delayed action of around 5-30 min. normaly capsuels are filled with meth then are taken. If you eat meth raw it will eat your teeth not to mention it tastes like ass. In large enough dosses it will cause sores in your mouth if eaten raw. This is the most discreat way to use meth. Injection of meth this is the most effective way to do meth but it also says that you are screwed the chemicals that are in red phose and anny are able to be tolareated to a extent when they enter your lungs mouth or thought the skin but when injected the distory you from the insides out. If you are injecting meth seek help now..... I do not support meth use it is a evil drug and unless you have some good willpower you will fall to the darkside of the force. Also with the crack down on meth going on it is a very unwise drug to produce or use tell the hipe as worn off. Yes I can't spell I have dislexia and I'm to lasy to use a spell checker.
Facts beat hysteria? Fact is the Meth floating around is brewed from a bunch of harmful chemicals that can (and do) lead to physical damage, psychosis, and even death. This stuff is in no way a pharmacutical product. Its a crap shoot at best because none of you have any idea which recipe was used and whether or not the source of the drug is someone with any clue (or integrity) in the product they are pushing. There is no hysteria in those pictures. They are fact. Another fact is you yourself quit taking this stuff. And good for you. Why did you quit anyways? Would you explain why you yourself quit using this particular drug? What exactly is the mis-representation in the original link? After re-reading the article myself I see the only thing resembling mis-representation is that most meth users declined to be interviewed (which is actually under-representation of the facts). <BR>
1. You assume everyone is on something. I know people who went to raves drug free. They didnt need something to enhance the experience. Their choice for sure. But I wonder how many meth users start out using the drug, knowing how it is created. You admitted not knowing yourself. I am sure most do not know. I wonder how many meth users have ever been around someone whos teeth crumble out of their head years after they have stopped using, when they start using meth. So this site (the original link) and others offer some of that information. Where is the hysteria in that? 2. You would agree that not everyone of these 1,000 people were using meth wouldnt you? xtc is a common drug in the raves also. Along with others including alcohol. You would also admit that you have no idea what happened to the 1,000 people at this rave, even 30 days later wouldnt you? Your one day (or 20 day snapshot, assuming you attended 20 raves) of raves isnt a good base to determine any long term effect. You have no idea, isnt that the fact? Good, it sounds like your not arguing the effects of long term use (and effects vary by individual so there is no agreed upon long term). However, this IS mis-information "confined to the realm of junkies, homeless and worst case scenarios". <BR>
Everyone I described in my posts started out as casual users. Most junkies start out as a casual user. Actually, logic would say the drug caused the sickness. Not eating is an effect the drug produces. Without the drug, the eating would not have been disrupted. The drug was the actual cause of the sickness. I have gone days without eating several times over one summer, but I didnt use drugs to achieve that. I didnt get sick once. The hype isnt the problem. The drug is. <BR>
Yes, they are fact. I once saw a photo of a lamb born with 2 heads, it was fact. Am I to conclude from that photo that all lambs have 2 heads? The mis-representation as I have already pointed out is that they are worse case scenarios. Great for shocking 10 year olds off drugs, but most teenagers would just say 'pfft, like I'm gonna end up like that old freak'. Why don't they show all the photos of meth users who havent been fucked up by it? That would give it balance and make it more credible. Because meth is bad for you in the long term... Dude, for f**ks sake, we are on the same page here. I am not waving the 'free meth for the kiddies' flag which you seem to think I am. What I am saying is that the approach to drug education is wrong. Facts beat hysteria. Your link to the page presenting the facts about meth was a lot more relevant to me than the original link showing pictures of fucked up zombies. Therefore it had a bigger impact. Wake up junior, many are on all three plus others all at the same time. Dude, learn to read, I already did admit that with this post... ----- *gives slow clap* The hype isn't the solution either.
humm that would on be the fact if you could not eat even if you wanted 2. Meth is a diretic/upper/apitite suppresser. So really if you drink water and eat durring the time you are using meth even though you don't feel the need you won't get sick. its not just the eating part. Its also the drinking part. Meth makes you pee like a race horse all the time. You dehidrate along with not eating and get sick.
bzzt. Misleading comparison. No one claims meth use by the lambs mother caused the 2 headed baby did they? Here, I can give you a better one. Thalidomide babies (you have seen pictures of that havent you?). Not every pregnant woman who injested thalidomide bore babies with horrible birth abnormalities, but those who took the drug increased the risk of this occurance. You take meth, you increase the risk to yourself in ending up as one of these pictures. That is clearly stated on the website. The officer himself declared he looked specifically for the worse cases he could find. So your claims of this link being misleading are false then. The goal of the program is to show the worse case as stated. Sheesh. But you said you were a casual user. And casual use is "pretty harmless". And I quote "I was a pretty casual user, mainly weekends when going out partying etc and never felt like I needed to have it, not like a need for nicotine or caffeine. In my experience it's more psychologically addictive than physically addictive, so for me personally it never became a problem." So Why exactly did you quit? Let me ask another question related to this. Are you using the term "quit" as in "I will never do meth again", or as in "I am not going to do meth for a while"? You claimed this "Originally Posted by ScRaMbLe Everyone is on something, in a crowd of a 1000, perhaps a couple might have visible ill effects. " Clearly, you are presenting this as a fact that you just do not know is accurate. You have no idea who was doing what in this crowd of 1,000 people. You dont even know if only a couple had a "visible" effect. That is a guess based on what you seen during your drug enduced euphoria. This is a meth thread and you are trying to minimize the impact of meth by declaring people who may be using other drugs are an example of meths safety when used casually? You havent any idea if all these people were on something, let alone how many were on meth, or how many meth users went on to become one of those pictures. The worst part of the drug culture is the self proclaimed "experts" declaring such things. Again, this link wasnt hype. It was well presented and very factual. <BR>
The fact is, this is moot from a chemistry stand-point. Once the reactions of these intermediates have taken place, you are left with an end-product. It is only the properties of the end product that matter, as it does not necessarily retain the properties of the intermediates. The chemicals are chosen because they have functional groups that are desirable, and will give them up to the product easily under the correct conditions (which some of the other chemicals are used to create). The same processes are used in pharmaceuticals. Syntheses are done in tert-butane and amine solvents which aren't good for consumption on their own. Caffeine extraction uses some pretty noxious chemicals as well. Here is a good example, and something I have done myself in a university organic chemistry lab. The synthesis of sulfanilamide, a sulphur based anti-biotic. One of the steps produced HCl gas! It was a white smoke that flowing out of the glassware and was extremely corrosive. Not to mention all the benzene based intermediates that are used. So, you cannot say that the drug is more dangerous because it is made from harmful substances. It is dangerous to make at home, and I don't condone it's use. But that particular point of yours is not applicable.
You're talking to me about misleading comparisons?! Are you trolling me or should you get the 'most likely to miss the point even if it was jammed up his arse' award? I didn't read the whole website... kinda proves my point, huh? I repeat. I quit because I was fully aware that long term sustained use could be bad for my health. I have grown out of my 'rave' phase and don't really go out clubbing anymore so I have no reason to use it ever again. How would I judge 'visible effect' other than by what I see? I'm not claiming accuracy. Yet again you miss the point entirely. And the worst part of police culture is them bumbling through life with their blinkers on, only seeing in black and white.
Its not a moot point. The process pharmacutical companies use to create legal methamphetamine does not involve brake fluid does it? I dont buy my sulphur based antibiotics from some dude named spike that I met at a party. Do you?
Well there ya go. Whos sticking what up whos arse? Maybe by not posting items as fact when they are drug clouded maybes? Maybe by exploring others observations? Your quick to dismiss others observations, but imply a troll when someone doesnt agree with your assessment. hmmm... I am misunderstanding a statement that may or may not be accurate. Let those who read this thread take note, ScRaMbLe is not claiming accuracy. My favorite tidbit of hysteria from the website "And so is the destruction of mind and body, said Richard Rawson, a neuropsychiatrist with UCLA's Integrated Substance Abuse Programs. Time-lapse jail photos give only a hint of what the drug is doing to the user's insides, starting with the mind, he said. Using brain-imaging techniques, researchers have found that meth's toxic chemicals eat away at brain tissue, eventually robbing addicts of the ability to feel pleasure without the drug. With each hit, meth changes the way the brain works, impairing judgment, giving rise to psychosis and aggravating any existing mental illness, Rawson said." Is this based on your real life experiences or another one of these "I'm not claiming accuracy" statements? There are few drugs I am totally against. Meth is one. PCP another. Crack cocaine is another. Those are the ones which pop into mind. I am glad for you that you escaped/avoided the madness that meth brings to people. But I am totally against its use for anyone/everyone. I have to be. The price good people have paid that I know proves to me its just one of those drugs that is best left untouched by everyone. And not one of those people I know figured they would end up looking like those pictures. <BR>
It doesn't matter what the ingredients are, because it's not those properties that are kept in the final product. The final product has it's own unique properties. Maybe the pharmaceutical company does not use brake fluid per se, but they will use a chemical that has similar properties for the same step. That's why brake fluid is used in the first place. There are several rinsing steps that I can see, each with a standard laboratory rinsing solution (an alcohol or acetone). This gets rid of by-products and intermediate ingredients. Crystallization also does this.
It does matter. You (or me, or anyone out there looking to score a dime) have no clue as to what properties Spike kept or cleaned out of the final product (with or without intent). This isnt controlled, regulated pharmacology going on (and there sure have been enough recalls of that too). And its not just the chemicals, its also the equipment used. Its a mishmash of toxic and corrosive chemicals. Its duct tape, walmart, and good luck/bad luck, its recipes that some amature obtained via a google search or a rumor. To compare this (meth production) to something done in a college lab where supervision by people with real knowledge of chemistry available or compared to pharmaceutical production in a controlled environment with lot numbers and quality control and pure ingredients to start with, is not a valid point, imho. <BR>
While I still don't agree that just because some of the precursors are toxic and or corrosive means that it's any more dangerous, I will concede that home labs have a much higher possibility of creating a more dangerous substance than pure meth. I hadn't fully considered the incompleteness or ommission of some steps, since a lot of people running home meth labs are likely not chemists.
My point was, that the site is not a very useful method of education since after seeing the first couple of photos I figured I didn't need to sit through 56k loading times just to see more of the same. My words... "in a crowd of a 1000, perhaps a couple might have visible ill effects. This was a generalized statement. The word "perhaps" implies that I was not stating a fact. Me again... "Everyone is on something". Of course I have no way of knowing if every single person at every rave was on something... I didn't walk around with a clipboard, I thought that would be obvious...I guess not. It was another generalized statement. You are simply being pedantic. The point of this statement wasn't a survey of drug use, it was a witness (me) based observation of the perception of drug use and effects within a rave community, which, you will find, is quite accurate. Where? Or course its experience. I can see that in future I will have to spell out every detail for you... ---------- *takes deep breath* Ok. Listen dude. I don't want this to turn into a mudslinging match when we are basically in agreement except for a few points. Lets just stick to them. Points we agree on - meth is a dangerous drug if used regularly - meth has harmful long term effects - meth is psychologically addictive Points we disagree on - meth is physically addictive - most users will become addicted and suffer a serious deteriation of health - presenting 'facts without extremes' is more effective than 'shock tactics' in drug education meth is physically addictive The disagreement here comes down to us initially talking about different substances. You are talking about meth produced using red phosphorous, which is clearly more common where you are (where is that btw?) I was talking about a basic amphetimine produced using a similar process minus the red phosphorous, which is a milder and apparently less toxic version. So we are basing our opposing arguements on different facts. most users will become addicted and suffer a serious deteriation of health Again, this disagreement is due to us talking about different substances and different scenarios. I am stating personal observations accrued over years in one particular aspect of drug culture in my country... in which I have seen minimal addiction rates and only minor health implications. presenting 'facts without extremes' is more effective than 'shock tactics' in drug education What I am saying here is that a balanced view of the overall situation is a more effective method of education. People who have witnessed with their own eyes a different situation to the one which is being shown to them, will immediately become suspicious of all information provided by that source. They will think that the facts are being exaggerated and therefore will mentally ignore any message assuming it is a mis-truth. I realise that you personally have witnessed the ill-effects of the drug, but where I come from (Australia) there really aren't many junkies and homeless on display in public. Therefore the shock approach wouldn't have as big an impact. edit - another point, you say that no-one knows the how or whats of 'spykes' meth production and this is essentially true. However, again it is scenario based. If a dealer gets a reputation for selling dodgy products it isn't very long before there are repercussions, so there is some form of quality control... its not ideal, of course, but it is definately not a case of anything goes.
my god you put brake cleaner in the meth you make geeezzz your the reason people give a bad name to meth makers..... there is no brake fluid in meth.... the 3 active ingreedients in meth are lithiem - a upper and antideprestent still given to people to day to a limited extent. The others are the 2 upper agents in sudifed cold and aligry. none endproducts chemeicals are ethinal "is seporated and evaporates before end product use", anahidrus "evaporates", and from another reaction used knock the meth out of suspention "does not come in contact with the end product" seficric acid, rocksalt. I'm not seeing brake fluid anywhere in there.... If it is done right after the meth is seporated from the ethinal then it should be in a fluffy white poweder that when headed once will turn liqued and turn into a cristal with a snaping nose as soon as you let the heat off of it. it can also be formed into rocks by leaving the meth to dry in coffiee filters that is the standers sales method.
