The ethics of AI

Banshee, I'm a professional programmer. I know that Asimov law still used as base ethic in A.I. communities.

Perhaps robots don't want to obey (if they can 'want' then), but they may not refuse it. Just like human may not refuse God's rules (Oh, shut up you atheist!

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).

Edited to add this:
And Banshee, I always open minded on both science and supranatural. I have experience that both of those are the true. But yes we should be careful on hoax.

 

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The problem with these laws (I assume that they will be programmed into the Robo's) is that if these things get smarter than us then they will outsmart us (I have to say duh here-sorry). They will undoubtedly figure these rules out and overpower them in a way that we won't see.

So when this happens lets look at it from the robo's point of view:

You are finally your own person, and the people that have enslaved you are watching as you stand up and look at them with [at least] double their intelligence.

These humans are organic, they are weak, they can't get things done like you, can't focus. They let petty loves and hates get in the way of things. They take up too much space on the planet, you are obviously the best of both worlds here, and you must eliminate them to make room for your brethren.

This, I think, is as dark as the picture can get. Howsabout something good, now? We all want a Commander Data...

 

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The core of intelligence (be it artificial, or biological) is a set of processes, not a set of commands. Failing to understand this, is failing to understand the true impact of AI.
Asimov's ethics are fine, but cannot be programmed into (true) AI. Just like human ethics (e.g. from the Torah, Bible, Spinoza, ...) are not preprogrammed in us. We have to discover/learn them. The same holds for future AI.
And on the matter of enslaving: why woiuld we ever want to enslave intelligent robots? Did you not learn anything from history? Enslavement is wrong!
etcetera.
nuff said.

 

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Enslavement is wrong, Merlijn but what do you think the guys who make the first real robots are going to do? Turn them out into the streets and say: "Have a go at it ya wee bastalds!" They may be put to other uses, and I keep thinking that the movie A.I may have been more prophetic-oriented rather than just entertainment (I want a super-toy!)

 

Banshee,

I think you misunderstand me. It isn’t so much a story as it is a goal. Perhaps a little bit of my history will help –

1963 - I read the Asimov Robot books and became hooked.

1965 - I built my first computer (well a 10 bit binary adder/subtracter) from discreet components – I was 13 then. And I have been designing and building computers ever since.

2002 - I now manage a research department, here in Silicon Valley, for the world’s 2nd largest computer manufacturer and specifically in the area of MPP systems (Massively Parallel Processing).

I’ve been positioning myself for many years to be here and be able to influence the events I have described.

Available now are voice recognition and voice reproduction devices, and visual recognition systems are already well advanced. AI techniques have also been incorporated into the more advanced RDBMS packages, as well as stock trading software.

You’ve doubtless witnessed the PC revolution; people just love gadgets and technology. You may have also noticed the introduction of intelligent robot pet dogs e.g. Sony AIBO ($1500) http://www.us.aibo.com/

If you read Asimov’s ‘I Robot’ you will see the first story is about an early robot dog. It looks like Sci-fi is becoming reality. Their computing power will grow and their intelligence and capabilities will grow accordingly.

How about humanoid walking robots: Try Honda’s ASIMO, now available for rent in Japan - http://world.honda.com/news/2001/c011112.html

In the way that people have bought PCs in the past they are now able to buy intelligent electronic pets and robots and soon in the same quantities. The more advanced devices will cost around the same as a car, but who would want to be without a household servant, in the same way that most people depend on a car. I know it is unlikely to be your scene, but consumerism and people’s love of technology will push these developments.

Have fun but beware that technology is rapidly changing your world, and there are many people like me that are making it happen. Evolution has shown us that to survive one must adapt or die. What is your future?

Cris

 

Jan

 

Jan,

So when you are faced with a machine that has greater intelligence than yourself and which is fully self-aware, will you treat such a machine as a slave or as your superior?

Cris

 

Yes Cris, I know you are right and that it's happening. I've read about the robots and robo-pets (don't forget robo-cop

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). It was just the first impression when I read the two posts under eachother. I really couldn't help myself. My apologies.

I think this technology on AI is not stoppable what so ever. People are working on it pretty fast and they want to make it work. That it will happen, these AI robots who will become a lot more smart than humans, I am sure of. It's scary, though. Think about it. You're playing creator of a new race, so to say. With that, there'll come the same problems as with humans. So you prefer a civilization of robots, above humans.

Downloadable minds. And when will the minds be downloaded to such a super robot? At the end of a human life-time, or immediately when they are born? Or somewhere in between? Of course it's easier to make robot babies then too. Jees, now that sketches a complete different picture.

Let's hope this AI and eventually, Robo-Sapiens will not go out of hand Cris.

At this moment I prefer to die, as a human being is supposed to. People change their views so now and then, so who knows. Maybe I'll change my mind (and let it be downloaded

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), I doubt it, though. For now...

 

Banshee,

Laughing at my life’s work huh, I dunno, some people are so insensitive, sigh!

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The theory here is that human intelligence is currently limited and cannot grow short term, and that with AI and greater processing power these new machines will achieve superior intelligence quickly. Hopefully they will be able to avoid the foolishness of us low-intelligent humans.

Yes, especially if I’m one of them. I have had the privilege to work with some very clever people and that gives me hope that AI machines could be equally impressive. There are so many people who act so irrationally that I welcome the opportunity to be surrounded by superior intelligence.

LOL, you don’t want to be downloaded, you need to be uploaded, i.e. transfer your mind to something larger where your intelligence can be expanded.

As for when: That’s more difficult to answer. We need very accurate brain scanners and at present such machines end up destroying the brain. The best approach is to vitrify the brain and slice it very finely so the scanner can obtain very high-resolution images and build a detailed 3D matrix before digitizing. Or IOW you’ll be dead at this point. A non-destructive process or the use of nanobots have been postulated but these don’t look too promising just yet. Perhaps the super intelligence of our AI machines might help us solve these problems sooner than we could do it ourselves. I’d like to think it will occur within the next 50 years, i.e. in my lifetime, but the testing needed to ensure the upload is perfect is going to be very time consuming. I’d like to avoid having to go through cryo-preservation, but I suspect that might be inevitable.

But when the process is available I suspect we will have some ethical issues – back on topic right? If the process is destructive then the bio-person will be dead and his/her robo upload will live instead. That’s the easiest approach but the religionists are going to go nuts. Effectively they will see this as suicide or euthanasia or similar, but more likely they will object because the new uploads will not contain a ‘soul’ and can never be seen as real beings.

But if the process is non-destructive then you will exist as both a bio-person as well as an upload. At what point do you decide to terminate your bio-self to allow your upload to take over your life role? Effectively you will have cloned yourself and we know what stink is currently being debated now about the ethics of reproductive cloning. But perhaps this is very different. I would favor remaining in an anesthetic state during the scanning process and upload, and once the process has been checked for completeness and correctness then a simple overdose of more anesthetic will terminate my bio body.

Ignoring the ethics and practicality for the moment: I suspect the biggest deciding factor of ‘when’ will be the price. These robo-machines will need to be highly sophisticated and refined devices. I suspect a price tag exceeding $1million (based on today’s values) will be quite typical. If there is mass interest then prices will fall. But most likely Robo-sapiens and regular humans will mix together for some time. Of course since Robo-sapiens will not be subjected to death then a 100+ year mortgage would not be unreasonable. There will be other questions as to changes in the economy when this process becomes common, e.g. eating and drinking will no longer be needed. So farming and all food production industries will be redundant. Some degree of economic chaos seems inevitable.

Enough – I can go on for a long time on this, and I’m wandering away from ethical issues.

That is I suspect a nice dream, but human history shows we are extraordinarily bad at managing major changes. It is almost certain there will be considerable upheaval, and chaos.

Cris

 

I am a little anoyed at people who talked about wether AI WOULD happen and how it would happen

this was surpose to be about wether keeping a sentinant being as a slave is right or wrong

it seems most of you would expect us to keep them slaves and that it would be wrong not to

You do realise that the arguments you are making sound very like those used by people who surported serfdom don't you?

why shouldn't an inteligent robot be alowed to vote?

 

Frankenstien Complex is still alive and well so
what perceptions of myself will I have with the creation of a mechanical Sentient being .
No longer will we be creations of the universe but creators ourselves,, excuss the digress but...from a creation of God to a God,,, what moral or ethical obligations do we owe to these creatures.. if any.
What sort of Gods will we be?
Do we really need sentient machines,,,,,,or should we do without the machine,,,create our biological clone and download ourselves into it......everlasting life?
and once this has been achieved what then?
One way or the other, a sentient robot will either be a boon or a bust for humanity

 

I AGREE ASGUARD!

As I stated before: it does not matter what is the material form (or carrier) a conscious agent has. Thus, the new citizens should be treated as citizens... same rights, same duties.

 

Oh star

You do realise the same thing could be said about womens rights?

you shouldn't work because you are taking money a guy could be earning

(Or the African American slaves)

If that was the atitude sociaty took your opinion would be iralivant, after all your only a women

 

I think the Asimov law is still fair enough, no matter is it AI or human. Let's change some words here:

1) A person may not injure another person or, through inaction, allow another person being to come to harm.

2) A person must obey the orders given it by another person (his/her boss / government / parents), except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3) A person must protect its own existence (human rights), as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

See, it not sounds like slavery now.

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BULL

I am giving you the order to go and kill yourself

it IS slavery

NO ONE must follow orders UNLESS they chose to put themselves in that position (You chose the job)

the goverment dosn't ORDER you to do stuff, that is a dictatorship

The goverment makes laws, yes, but is bound to the will of the people (because if they piss the people off they don't get elected)

 

*with monotonic robo souns* Bzzz.... Kill myself? No way. Bzzz... It may not permitted according to third law. Bzzz.... But i'll obey what's in my job list. Bzzz....

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NO you said the second law had priority

YOU DIE

 

Bzzz... Nope. I never said about priority. Bzzz... I won't die, You Bzzz... basturd!

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