The DREAM Act

Discussion in 'Politics' started by WillNever, Dec 13, 2009.

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Do you support the DREAM act?

  1. Yes

    35.7%
  2. No

    50.0%
  3. Not Sure

    14.3%
  1. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,594
    President Obama believes that this twice-failed piece of legislation will come up for another vote again in the first quarter of 2010. Its preeminent proponent, Senator Dick Durban, has high hopes that it may just succeed.

    For the uninitiated, the DREAM act offers a path to citizenship for illegal immigrant minors who were brought to the USA before the age of 16, provided they join the military or pursue higher education. Here is a basic rundown.

    The question of the thread is, do you support this act and why?
     
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  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    No. Illegal immigrants ought to be treated as what they are, and that's criminals.

    There are plenty of lawful, law-abiding immigrants and they can become American just like anyone else; if the illegal immigrants choose to break the law, they will be treated as criminals.

    That's my two cents.
     
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  5. mike47 Banned Banned

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    2,117
    The US can not control its borders . With so many illegals already inside the country, just give them a complete amnesty and give their kids a brighter future . They came there to earn a living and get out of poverty . Do not blame them . The US is the envy of the world . certainly your ancestors are not Americans .
     
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  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Certainly they're not, but we came here lawfully.

    So no, send them back, and if they return, you can treat them to a rope.
     
  8. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    2,594
    I tend to agree that illegal immigration is, in fact, illegal. I also think that amnesty is extraordinarily unfair to legal immigrants who have to defer gratification and wait outside, often for years, until they are accepted and processed. It can take many years for people outside to immigrate to the USA. However, the DREAM act applies to people who were brought here by their parents before they had any say in the matter. In some cases they are infants who grew up here and don't know the language of their original country. Do you think they should be sent too?

    Note: I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just interested in your view.

    We could if we tried, probably. A lot of the illegals aren't even border-hoppers though. Many of them are visa overstayers who came legally but remained illegally when their visas expired. I don't see full blown amnesty as being an option, mike. What happens to the illegals who come after we pass an amnesty bill. Are we just going to keep giving amnesty forever? Why even have a legal immigration process at all then?
     
  9. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    How many people would this actually affect?
     
  10. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Now that's a real thought-provoker. I'm not sure; on the one hand, they are illegal, but you're right, they didn't have a say in the matter.

    In the end, I suppose that under those circumstances, depending on their capability and potential, they can be allowed to stay.


    OR they can be deported and given the option to apply legally for admission into the US.
     
  11. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    2,594
    From what I'm reading on USAtoday, 65,000 illegal immigrant students graduate high school each year. So this can potentially affect a significant number of people as it applies retroactively to people who are still below the age of 35 by the time it is enacted.

    That figure may be exaggerated, however.
     
  12. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,485
    I think 16 is a bit high, but as for people who were raised here, I think they should be granted amnesty especially if they plan on contributing to society with a degree or serving the country through military service. They probably aren't going to voluntarily leave and tracking them down is easier said than done. They know just as much about this country as any natural born citizen, so I say give those kids citizenship so they can pay taxes and lawfully enjoy all of the benefits without sucking the system dry. As many San Diego hospitals have learned the hard way. There is more than one way to skin a cat, there should be more than one way to become a citizen. Of course I think this should only apply to people brought here as children maybe 12 and under or something (16 seems too old to me, that would only leave them 2-3 years to adapt). After that I think they should only be granted temporary citizenship for only x amount of years until they can apply for and pass the test of citizenship like everyone else.
     
  13. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,594
    Doesn't that provide an incentive to illegal immigration, if parents get the idea that bringing their young children here for college will provide them with legal residence?

    Something to keep in mind: There many, many, many thousands of people desperate to get in the USA, most who are legal applicants. It takes huge fees and many years to complete the immigration process. Many of them have kids who want to go to school here too. Don't you think it a slap in the face to put illegal immigrants' kids at the front and center for green cards... when we still have a huge line of legal people who want the same thing?

    Giving those kids residence because "they're already here anyway" does not sound very logical, from the perspective of a legal immigrant. Cheating should be counted against you, not for you. Or else it would be easier for you to become a citizen had you been brought here illegally, which makes no sense.

    My other concern is that public universities are state-funded and room is limited. Allowing illegal immigrants, no matter what their grades, to attend state schools that they no their parents paid taxes toward seems immoral.
     
  14. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    You didn't get the picture. The point is to fill up the military reqruitment quotas. But because of the recession, they are filling them up anyway, so this legislation is not timely...
     
  15. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,594
    UPDATE: the DREAM act was voted down a few days ago in the Senate, despite going through the House. Obama plans to somehow reignite the fight for DREAM act.

    What is everyone's opinion on this?
     
  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    It seems that if you push hard enough long enough people tend to give in to make you "go away". I feel that this is his strategy even though millions of LEGAL immigrants are trying to do exactly what ILLEGAL ones are trying to invoke.Why not find out who the parents of these ILLEGAL children are and DEPORT them and make them become LEGAL immigrants like all of the rest have done. Not deporting those families of ILLEGAL children only make it that much harder for those LEGAL immigrants to find jobs, schools and homes that the ILLEGALS are taking away. So let us find those that are doing ILLEGAL things and stop this nonsense about legalizing illegal people.
     
  17. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,089
    This is why we need a One World government so that no one is an 'immigrant' or 'illegal'.

    Yes I was kidding

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    This act is basically making legal that which is illegal, the illegals that is.

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    Peace be unto you

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  18. jmpet Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,891
    I believe our dollars are better spent improving our youth.
     
  19. countezero Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,590
    I do not support this.

    The US needs a real, comprehensive immigration policy -- not amnesty, either -- to regain control of this issue.

    The DREAM Act is death by a thousand cuts. The pols couldn't pass their amnesty plan a few years back, so they decided to break it up and try to pass it in parts. This is their first effort, and thankfully, the Republicans stood up to them on it.

    The government has zero credibility on this issue. It does not even enforce the current laws it has on the books. Until that changes, I am against any new loophole, in which they say they only let a certain number of people in. That's bullshit.
     
  20. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    If President Obama continues to make this act a reality then we will all know that he fights for those who are criminals doing illegal things in America for any illegal immigrant isn't supposed to be able to have a job here and is here without permission. That's a Federal offense for those doing this criminal act and President Obama only encourages illegal activities which means he doesn't know right from wrong any longer.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    I support it, the children of illegals aren't criminals, and if they have been here learning our language and learning in our schools why not let them stay, its a waste of investment otherwise.

    Illegal immigration can't be fought by rounding up the illegals or putting up walls, they just keep coming back, you got to stop them from wanting to come over, why do they come over, primarily for work, so hunt down and severally punish anyone that hires illegals for anything, once the work for illegals dry up illegal immigration will as well.
     
  22. countezero Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,590
    You are conveniently ignoring that their parents have made them accessories to a crime. In normal terms, this is called victimization. You are also ignoring the fact that the "investment" spent on them in our education system should not necessarily have been provided in the first place.

    Sure, it can.

    Which is why you make it harder to get here and harder to stay. That makes it a less attractive option.

    The economy is taking care of that. But raids on the workplace are up and more deportations have occurred. That's a good thing. But then, typically, the DREAM Act would apply to many of the children caught in such operations. What to do then? The Dreamers would have everyone stay...
     
  23. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    And more ILLEGALs would be finding their way in by the millions.
     

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