The double solution theory, a new interpretation of Wave Mechanics

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by cav755, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. cav755 Banned Banned

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    The point of what the MIT physicists are saying is that what occurs physically in nature at the quantum level is the same as what we experience every day. They have evidence of de Broglie's wave mechanics at the classical level, so there is no reason to deny understanding it is occurring at the quantum level as that is what de Broglie developed it for. Particles are particles and waves are waves. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave passes through both.
     
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  3. forrest noble Registered Senior Member

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    I'll discuss your views with you here since the thread topic is more to my liking.

    I generally agree with your interpretation of the double slit experiment. It has been a long-established explanation for historical and some modern aether proponents, but generally unknown to most layman. Photons for some who have proposed such models, would accordingly be only short-lived particles. Essentially such explanations are based upon an aether wave theory of light, called the luminiferous aether. Because of the null results of the Michelson & Morly's experiment and the many other such experiments since then, either gravity would have to "drag" the aether with it, or the aether would need to be gravity centered. The most common of these gravity centered aether models relate to aether theories of gravity, such as the historical Le Sage, Yarkovsky, etc. models but having even fewer followers or proposers today. My understanding upon reading your postings is that you have your own aether explanation of gravity? I also have my own formal version of it.

    Why do you think that an aether would be displaced by matter? For many modern aether models, those that I am familiar with, the hypothetical aether is made up of tiny particulates much smaller than any known particle. Maybe even smaller than Plank lengths. If so as atoms, molecules, and fermions spin (electrons orbit etc.) a vortex would be created in the aether by this spin. Accordingly this would be the perceived solid part of matter. As you know there are vast distances between an electron and the nucleus of an atom. This would seemingly be filled with such an aether. This would result in matter having a lower internal aether pressure, but not the complete displacement of aether. Do you have a different kind of aether model in mind?

    Although I am also an alternative theorist like yourself, one of the main differences between our postings is that you speak as if your alternative views are established fact. You must realize that the aether has never been experimentally discovered or realized, but worse, many still consider it a joke therefore few are even looking for it

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  5. cav755 Banned Banned

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    Aether has mass. Mass defined as that which physically occupies three dimensional space. There is no such thing as non-baryonic dark matter anchored to matter. Matter moves through and displaces the aether. The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

    Displaced aether pushing back and exerting inward pressure toward matter is gravity.

    What is referred to as curved spacetime physically exists in nature as the state of displacement of the aether.

    The state of displacement of the aether is gravity.

    A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave in the aether passes through both.

    'Einstein: Ether and Relativity'
    http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

    "Think of waves on the surface of water. Here we can describe two entirely different things. Either we may observe how the undulatory surface forming the boundary between water and air alters in the course of time; or else-with the help of small floats, for instance - we can observe how the position of the separate particles of water alters in the course of time. If the existence of such floats for tracking the motion of the particles of a fluid were a fundamental impossibility in physics - if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the water as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that water consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium."

    if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the aether as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that aether consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium having mass which is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

    Watch the following video starting at 0:45 to see a visual representation of the state of the aether. What is referred to as a twist in spacetime is the state of displacement of the aether.

    [video=youtube;s9ITt44-EHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ITt44-EHE[/video]

    "Imagine the Earth as if it were immersed in honey," says Francis Everitt of Stanford University in California, the mission's chief scientist. "As the planet rotates, the honey around it would swirl, and it's the same with space and time."

    The 'swirl' is more correctly described as the state of displacement of the aether.

    'The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3802

    "The emerging picture of the asymmetric dark matter halo is supported by the \Lambda CDM halos formed in the cosmological N-body simulation."

    The Milky Way's 'dark matter halo' is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the aether.

    'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1475

    "Our data strongly support the idea that the gravitational potential in clusters is mainly due to a non-baryonic fluid, and any exotic field in gravitational theory must resemble that of CDM fields very closely."

    The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through the aether. The analogy is a submarine moving through the water. You are under water. Two miles away from you are many lights. Moving between you and the lights one mile away is a submarine. The submarine displaces the water. The state of displacement of the water causes the center of the lensing of the light propagating through the water to be offset from the center of the submarine itself. The offset between the center of the lensing of the light propagating through the water displaced by the submarine and the center of the submarine itself is going to remain the same as the submarine moves through the water. The submarine continually displaces different regions of the water. The state of the water connected to and neighboring the submarine remains the same as the submarine moves through the water even though it is not the same water the submarine continually displaces. This is what is occurring as the galaxy clusters move through and displace the aether.
     
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  7. forrest noble Registered Senior Member

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    How does your model explain the galaxy rotation curves observed for some spiral galaxies, those where the outer galaxy stars are moving faster than the inner stars?
     
  8. cav755 Banned Banned

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    439
    Aether is displaced by matter. Displaced aether pushes back and exerts inward pressure toward matter. The Milky Way's halo is curved spacetime. The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether. The displaced aether which the Milky Way's halo consist of is pushing back and exerting inward pressure toward the Milky Way, causing the outer stars to move faster than the matter in the Milky Way itself can account for.

    'Milky Way's halo more squished than spherical'
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3473567...ys-halo-more-squished-spherical/#.TjkpbmDmE2c

    The beach ball represents the state of displacement of the aether.

    The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether. The matter which would form the Milky Way was moving as it displaced the aether. The aether displaced perpendicular to the major direction of motion became the majority force of the displaced aether and forced the matter into the disk. This resulted in the angular momentum of the matter. It is the aether which is displaced outward relative to the plane of the angular momentum which exerts force toward the center of the Milky Way. This force, along with the state of displacement of the aether as determined by the angular momentum of the Milky Way, forced the matter closer together which resulted in the displaced aether looking like a squished beach ball. Aether displacement explains how the Milky Way was created, how the disk and halo formed and why the rotational speed can not be accounted for by the mass of the matter of the Milky Way itself.
     
  9. forrest noble Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    210
    cav755,

    Curved spacetime is not needed for most fluid aether models. Aether would be radiated away from matter as heat along with the spin of matter either/both would result in a lower aether pressure within matter and galaxies causing a continuous inflow of aether which accordingly would be gravity. This would have similarity to your model but complete aether displacement would not be needed, just a lower pressure within matter. I think it is a simpler aether pushing gravity explanation without the existence of curved spacetime.
     
  10. cav755 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    439
    The aether is, or behaves similar to, a supersolid.

    Curved spacetime is the state of displacement of the aether.

    'Comment on higher derivative Lagrangians in relativistic theory'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.5759

    "The relativistic theory of an Aether was discussed several time, see for e.g. [8], [9]. In this paper, our hypothesis is different and gives a relativistic theory of the deformation of continuous media (for which the geometry is described by the metric field)."

    The Milky Way's halo is the deformation of continuous media.

    The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

    What is referred to as the curvature of spacetime physically exists in nature as the state of displacement of the aether.

    The pseudo-force associated with curved spacetime is the force associated with the displaced aether.
     
  11. forrest noble Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    210
    A particulate fluid aether seems like a simpler explanation of gravity to me. There would be no need for curved spacetime or aether displacement, simply aether flow from higher to lower pressure areas/volumes.
     
  12. BlackHoley Banned Banned

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    340
    I think I would agree with this as well.

    While that might be a better way to look at it, I don't think fluid dynamics fully explains things, in a holistically-accurate sense. Instead, we should be looking at statistical gravitational thermodynamic theory.
     
  13. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,914
    O.K. Cite a credible reference for an everyday classical experience that QM explains, other than as an extrapolation or theoretical projection. You know some direct explanation, not an interpretation or..... You may first wish to define where the line between objects of everyday experience and those directly involved in quantum phenomena.., rests.

    Remember I have been on a binge lately, involving clear separations between theoretical interpretations and direct experience and/or objectively proven reality.
     
  14. cav755 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    439
    The piece of window glass referred to by Robert Laughlin, Nobel Laureate, is describing the aether as a supersolid, ""Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness."

    Curved spacetime physically exists in nature as the state of displacement of the aether.

    The swirl in the following video is the state of displacement of the aether.

    [video=youtube;s9ITt44-EHE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ITt44-EHE[/video]

    The offset caused by the galaxy cluster moving through and displacing the aether is the state of displacement of the aether.

    'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1475

    "Our data strongly support the idea that the gravitational potential in clusters is mainly due to a non-baryonic fluid, and any exotic field in gravitational theory must resemble that of CDM fields very closely."

    The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through the aether. The analogy is a submarine moving through the water. You are under water. Two miles away from you are many lights. Moving between you and the lights one mile away is a submarine. The submarine displaces the water. The state of displacement of the water causes the center of the lensing of the light propagating through the water to be offset from the center of the submarine itself. The offset between the center of the lensing of the light propagating through the water displaced by the submarine and the center of the submarine itself is going to remain the same as the submarine moves through the water. The submarine continually displaces different regions of the water. The state of the water connected to and neighboring the submarine remains the same as the submarine moves through the water even though it is not the same water the submarine continually displaces. This is what is occurring as the galaxy clusters move through and displace the aether.

    The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

    'The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided'
    http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3802

    "The emerging picture of the asymmetric dark matter halo is supported by the \Lambda CDM halos formed in the cosmological N-body simulation."

    The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the aether.

    A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave in the aether passes through both.
     
  15. BlackHoley Banned Banned

    Messages:
    340
    ... Sorry for cutting and pasting from wiki, but it gets to the point without me doing it...

    ''Semiclassical physics, or simply semiclassical refers to a theory in which one part of a system is described quantum-mechanically whereas the other is treated classically. For example, external fields will be constant, or when changing will be classically described. In general, it incorporates a development in powers of Planck's constant, resulting in the classical physics of power 0, and the first nontrivial approximation to the power of (−1). In this case, there is a clear link between the quantum-mechanical system and the associated semi-classical and classical approximations, as it is similar in appearance to the transition from physical optics to geometric optics.''
     
  16. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    3,914
    That is all in your interpretation.

    It is not what the author's of any of the references you cite intended, as I and most others read them.
     
  17. OnlyMe Valued Senior Member

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    3,914
    Pay attention to the detail in your quote! In red bold above! and then consider how the concepts of theoretical and appears or appearance, affect the context of the quote. While this may be a valid theoretical model, it is not a reference to any direct cause and effect relationship....

    Remember you are playing a game of what we know, and what we think we know!
     
  18. forrest noble Registered Senior Member

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    210
    BlackHoley,

    I have derived preliminary formulations of gravity based upon a fluid aether that do not yet use the equations of fluid dynamics. Before I'm done with these equations, test them on galaxy rotation curves and write a paper, I eventually may need to add such equations, which if needed would provide additional logical justification for the theory. I expect the final gravity equation calculations to be similar to MOND gravity calculation results (which have been quite successful) but with a strong theoretical justification that Milgram's MOND does not have.
     
  19. cav755 Banned Banned

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    439
    You can either understand what de Broglie figured out is occurring in the quantum world is now seen in the macro world and you can correctly understand what occurs physically in nature in a double slit experiment, or you can remain ignorant.
     
  20. BlackHoley Banned Banned

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    340

    Neh.
     
  21. BlackHoley Banned Banned

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    340



    Yes... I know it is a theory... all of physics is a theory. I don't know what is your point.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,225
    Well then, why do you and other trolling alternative theorists always need to put your alternative model as a fact?
    At least the incumbent theory/model does have widespread acceptance in most cases, and especially with Time as a reality and its relation with GR.
    The only certainties worth considering as certainties, are those "near certainties" of the BB, SR, GR and Evolution.
     
  23. BlackHoley Banned Banned

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    ... simply because I only present facts. This whole, timeless thingy paddo, they are all based on real facts about GR.
     

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