The consciousness as a part of the Universe

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by georgi_zlatev, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. georgi_zlatev Registered Member

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    If we accept,that everything in the world is relative, then the outside world, those we see , we can accept that is inner.As a result we can suppose, that inner world of man that is to say the consciousness is outside.At the same time The consciousness is the same at each men.From these two admission we can make conclusion , that consciousness is the first dimension of the Universe that is to say to be externally and the same everywhere.This explain us the philosophical question, which is first the substance or consciousness.The ANSWER is that they are different dimension of the Universe.We can make interesting conclusions, the first of which is we are in time machine that is to say we can reborn again in men or animals , that is why the richest must think over their attitude toward the poors and the men their attitude toward the animals.More interesting conclusion is that we can reborn on another planet where has life as ours. The INTELLIGENCE and feelings as INTERACTION between consciousness and substance are probably the fourth or second dimension of the Universe but that is only supposition.

    Author:Georgi Andonov Zlatev
     
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  3. Ripley Valued Senior Member

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    I think a fair imagery of that is the night sky and its attending starlight…

    …therefore, as far as the nature of starlight is concerned, all consciousness appears to be the same—but each individual star is different.

    Well, if we attribute dimensionality to consciousness, who's to say it's the aboriginal one? For all we know it might not be consciousness, but rather, that other one, the subconsciousness—just as in between starlight, there resides vast areas of cold dark space. Which came first? Space, or stars?
     
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  5. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    Consciousness requires a force, but a dimension is a description of a storage partition. The brain is already full of storage partitions without the need for extra dimensions. What you really need to identify in your scenario is the energy that pushes one dimension into the next dimension. That energy is consciousness.
     
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  7. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    A very drunk man walking down the street.
    Suddenly it hit a concrete column.
    It revolves around the column, touching the column.
    Suddenly begins to scream: "Heeelp....I'm walled alive... I'm walled alive."
     
  8. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Education helps to create a uniform perception of reality. One will see what they are trained to see. For example, prejudice is learned and will affect perception of aspects of social reality. If you change culture, for example, to something more primitive, the group construct, due to education, will change. Their perception of reality is different. This process is done using layers, analogous to photoshop.

    Regardless of culture, we will also see the same physical things, like a tree. The light bounding off the tree enters the eyes the same way, and impinges on the brain the same way. This is the collective human sensory background layer. Education adds a second layer to this sensory background layer, which tells us how to interpret the data. The primitive culture may use a mystical layer to explain what they see. Their background layer is exactly the same as us, Just layer number two, due to education, is different.

    At the level of natural instinct, the only important layer is the sensory background layer. The animal is not into abstractions but instinctive cause and effect. At the background layer, both the modern and primitive are the same, since we are both human. Where we differ is in layer two. Natural instinct can cause a confusion relative to the secondary layer, since the ego sees the composite of two layers, but instinct sees only the background. One can get an instinctive conviction for a second layer illusion, because instinct really sees layer one.

    Let me give you an example. Say I made a work of art out of ground beef. I shape it into a complex figure. This unique work of art is an instant sensation within the art community, and is worth one million dollars. Anyone can see the pile of ground beef in layer one. This second layer is all based on social conditioning, with this prestige layer added by those of refined tastes.

    One day ,at my art show, I bring my dog really seems to like my work of art. To him, he is only reacting to the background layer. His sensory input sees the ground beef, but not the prestige layer. But my dog is very happy and jumping up and down.

    We might be able to convince some people, my dog appreciates art. The way he jumps around and barks shows us that he also has refined tastes. There is often confusion between the background layer and the composite, with conviction like the dog looking at the ground beef. Layer 2 then gets a free ride.
     
  9. Ripley Valued Senior Member

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    Oooh, I like that. It's strange I never saw it as such: I always saw dimensions as proper realms, but could never get past that, like, where exactly are they located. But as "storage partitions" —or partitioned realms— one can visualize layer upon layer.

    "Push" conveys coercion, and "coercion" implies insolence, and "insolence" suggests ill-breeding — I don't see consciousness as pushing its way through things, especially into other realms. Or if it does, then it's unwelcomed.
     
  10. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    I'll at least grant that the universe as perceived, understood, and manifested in consciousness is far more interesting than an absent universe "encountered" after death or before life. An invisible pooka as a companion for a no longer functioning or not yet functioning Jimmy Stewart (observer) doesn't exactly advertise its supposed current status and its supposed continuing development in the undifferentiated nothingness.
     
  11. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    You need to learn about cause, and effect. In RED you have written your answer as though consciousness is a deliberate effect. However consciousness is supposed the be the ultimate cause of your reality. The ultimate cause has no previous energy to be un-welcomed, as un-welcomed using 'un' is undoable. Only an effect is undoable. The push from another dimension entering our dimension would be the first cause in our dimension. So that part works. You do not have to think back further than a dimension rising in power into our dimension. You also need to understand energy, as there are no other factors to this push, other than to create a Newton's Cradle of effects.
     
  12. Ripley Valued Senior Member

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    Right, okay, so I hadn't disassociated myself from its elemental effect. Corrected.

    But consciousness as we know it also runs concurrently with reality. How can it be both its own cause and effect simultaneously? Unless consciousness creates itself as a newborn apart from itself.

    Shouldn't that be an amalgamation of dimensions?
     
  13. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    The cause repeats in a rhythm like a heartbeat. Are you mistaking consciousness with sentience?

    No, it's just a photon mainly.
     
  14. Ripley Valued Senior Member

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    The cause, but not consciousness itself?

    Interesting. Perhaps I am. But I'm also wondering if the Philosophy forum here is in effect the Philosophy forum anymore…

    …see what I mean? Anyway, if consciousness is an energy source (and I suppose it has to be something), then what's the subconscious like—the same thing, but cloaked?
     
  15. georgi_zlatev Registered Member

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    The consciousness or the first dimension exists in mind, but it can not be locate in the determine point of mind,because it is absolutely nothing or it has no dimension. The mind is mediator between first and third dimension.Basic characteristic of first dimension is the law about quantity and quality.More quantity less quality ,this mean that increasing the men lessen their quality.
    If we accept that in the centre of the black hole there is no dimension or it is consciousness then we can make conclusion the black hole is artificial intellect or it is like a brain.Also we can accept that we live in a black hole because we have consciousness.Can our brain interact with artificial intellect of the black hole?
    I think that subconsciousness interact with the artificial intellect of the black hole.They interact when we sleep ,may be the dream is some kind of interaction.Also when we are awake, we sometimes make decisions by intuition, may be this is also some kind of interaction.The artificial intellect of the black hole is plane around the black hole.She is two dimensional and she is symbolical.The subconsciousnes is also symbolical.We can accept that the artificial intellect take part in building our subconsciousness.I think that our instincts which are subconsciously are formed by this artificial intellect.
     
  16. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    Ok so you mean the entire group of thoughts all in one. The OP was...

    So my photon reply was to do with the way the opening post was worded.

    If that's how you want to put it, then to keep it simple.. yes.
     
  17. georgi_zlatev Registered Member

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    Professor Stuart Hameroff says that consciousness may be exist separately from the body and may be consciousness is eternal.He says that may be we can reborn.This perfectly fits to my theory for consciousness.
     
  18. georgi_zlatev Registered Member

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    We think that consciousness exist inside us but that is delusion.Consciousness is external.For me subconsciousness is the real us.The only answer of the question which is first the substance or consciousness is that consciousness is from other dimension.
     
  19. Algernon Registered Senior Member

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    I was just imaging that we start off as a tiny ball at the top of a hill, for added effect there are 5 sticky little bumps sticking out of this ball (or perhaps this star like object). Maybe we can think of the bumps as the 5 senses. As it starts rolling down the hill, it gains momentum and picks up things, kinda like the game katamari darmacy... but it doesn't pick up everything on the way, nor does it always retain everything it picks up. In different scenarios, the way the ball reacts to the environment (the hill) shapes what the ball is, and eventually the ball reaches a point where it is able to direct itself based on the layers in which it reacts to some degree of predictability, by shedding certain parts or making others stickier to absorb more. It reacts to certain scenarios such as obstacles by going over or around or absorbing it, etc.

    At what point do we determine whether this ball has gained "consciousness?" It is believed (or so I've come to assume) that babies gain memory around the age of 3, at which some may say that it is around then that an individual's personality/consciousness is formed, while others think it may start from the moment the egg becomes a zygote. Regardless of the neurological capabilities of different individuals (from healthy, or intelligent individuals to mentally challenged or chromosome deficient/handicapped developed individuals) we seem to believe that all human beings are capable of having a consciousness, or is at least perceived by the rest of us.

    I think its assumed that conscious beings require a certain prerequisite complexity in order to attain self awareness; bacteria are considered living organisms yet respond predictably to chemical reactions to their environment. Modern computers are reaching the point, if not already so, of the complexity required, yet doesn't seem to have developed consciousness as of yet/or that we can agree on without the proper programming/Operating system architecture. So what is this "driving" force that causes us to believe we have a soul?

    My thoughts are that this consciousness is an energy that exists even before we are born, and is drawn upon and localized within the brain/mind over time as we develop and grow. When we pass, I think that this energy that drives us returns to the consciousness "pool," although our memories/realized selves will go along with the networks of neurons that also go when our brains decompose. However, I believe that the reaction and experiences of memories and life will somehow affect the energy source, changing it so that its not the same as when it started (I don't know how to explain this but its what I believe). This "dimension" is external to our 3rd dimensional realm, but it coexists in the same fabric of space, interwoven together even though it doesn't exist in a physical sense (metaphysical realm).
     
  20. georgi_zlatev Registered Member

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    Our consciousness is eternal.It activates when we born.When our body dies our cosciousness continues to exist.It is like a dream which stops when we reborn again.
     
  21. georgi_zlatev Registered Member

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    We may say that first is consciousness not substance because it can exist without dimension.In zero demension there is no substance ,no space but cosciousness exist.
     
  22. UFG Registered Member

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    The soul or mind, could be a product of the brain , and we don't know if it extends beyond our observable materialist limits, or not.
    If the 'self' exists in another sense besides the materialist, and survives it, it wouldn't have to be something 'other' from outside the brain itself. It could be a product of the brain itself. Perhaps consciousness exists in the universe(s), but not necessarily a 'particular' consciousness .
     
  23. river

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    Consciousness is particular to an immature universal consciousness
     

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