Boohoohoo.... I imagine that poor Tiassa shed an ocean of tears in that last post. Tiassa, I am an alpha male hunter. I was a top athlete in high school. I was a top scholar in high school, college and GRAD school (engineering no less). I have killed two bears with a bow, I have taken out two wounded deer with nothing but a knife. I am a predator, pure and simple. I cut my teeth hunting in the Amazon basin as 5-10 year old. Back then I hunted with nothing more than a hand crafted bow which the native indians helped me build. After careful analysis of your viewpoints and personality, I believe that one word sums up my opinion of you better than any other..... PREY!! You have an apparent obsession with things that have nothing to do with the crisis in the Middle East. I have no idea what point you are trying to prove with your incessant ramblings on the 19th century, South America and Asia. Very poor diversionary tactics at best. I believe it is time that uncle Brad Rules sheds a little light on your obviously clouded and dark world view. There is a little country called Sudan. This is the country that has given Mr Bin Laden shelter and aid. What do you know about Sudan? Did you know that the northern part of Sudan is filled with arabic muslims? Did you know that the southern part of Sudan is filled with black christians and animists? Did you know that the islamic leader of Sudan (Hassan Turabi) is leading a program of islamization through genocide? Did you know that Arabic Islamic north plies the slave trade against the south? That is correct, the muslim north uses the non-muslims as sex slaves and free labor. Did you know that the Arabic Islamic north confiscates western humanitarian aid and uses it to coerce the Black south to convert to Islam? Do you know the body count of the number of Sudaneese Black christians butchered by Arabic Islamics in the last decade (heres a hint.... it is in the MILLIONS!!!!!)? Don't be feeding me a bunch of crap about evil America. The Islamic jihad is upon us. They are committing genocide. They are formenting violence. They are formenting hate. As an alpha male hunter/warrior of an alpha male culture, I have blood in my eye and hate in my heart. I would gladly choke every islamic heretic I run across with his own entrails. Unfortunately I am too old to enlist so the killing will be done by some other lucky hero. Kill their leaders then SLAUGHTER THEIR CLERICS. Burn their mosqes and murder their islamic students. They are the virus, we are the innoculation. The time for half measures is past us, it is time for America to step up and save the world from evil Islam.
Then go the hell back to the wilderness, boy! Coming from a man as obsessed with killing as you seem to be, I expect no less. Alpha male: Great, so you're what, an orangutan with a gun? Athlete: Yeah? And? Scholar/engineering: And? Killed ...: Is bear good eatin'? Or was it one of those self-defense things, where he broke into your living room? Oh, two of those self-defense things? Wounded deer: And I know a hunter who beat one to death with a friggin' pistol because he was too drunk to load it. There's a reason you hunter types are so annoying. Some of us find better things to talk about than killing. Predator: Well, technically, so am I. But I'm happy to pay people to do it for me. It's one of the reasons I like civilization instead of the wilderness. I woke up in the middle of the night in a tent that was surrounded by deer; I hadn't known there were that many on the island was the only reason it was surprising. State park notwithstanding, I still wouldn't have shot them. It was cool, getting to chill with the deer. They're sociable if you don't threaten or frighten them. Admittedly, it's a little tough, since predators like you ensure that everything in the world except for cats and dogs would rather be away from us, and we're not really sure about the cats. Speaking of which, my cat is a more respectful hunter than you. Of course, why did you bother telling me all this about you in the first place? All it tells me is you like to wear moose urine. Prey: Do we expect anything else of you, Brad? Do they teach history to engineering majors anymore? There used to be a term, well-rounded. It did survive into the twentieth century, but proved uneconomical and unprofitable. I believe Uncle Brad Rules needs to answer a question: Why weren't these things important before when the peace movement you so despise pointed it out the first, second, third, fourth, ad nauseam time? Don't tell me about atrocities around the world you pathetic, self-righteous hormone. Why the hell was none of this important before September 11, 2001? Why? Because none of 'em had bothered your sorry ass yet. Get over yourself. Don't tell me this justifies war; it didn't before. It's your own selfish American ass and your own predator's lust. Unkie Brad! Get your gun. You're needed overseas. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! --Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Tiassa, You always bring a smile to my face. You remind of a abused wife. When her husband breaks her jaw, the woman wonders what she did wrong to cause her husband to attack her so. When her husband comes home drunk and proceeds to rape and beat her, she blames herself for not being more understanding. Simply put Tiassa, you make a most excellent victim. Predators will seek you out for they love preying on the weak. Let see if I can sum up your position. 1] Over a century ago, the white man killed the indians and enslaved the blacks THEREFOR America is evil and the towel heads were justified in attacking us. 2] The CIA traded arms to the Sandinistas and used the proceeds to win the release of hostages from Iran THEREFOR America is evil and the camel humpers were justified in attacking us. 3] We stopped Saddam from butchering the sovereign Kuwaiti citizens and booted his ass back to Iraq THEREFOR America is evil and the imbecelic islamics were justified in attacking us. 4] We spent billions of dollars to supply the Afghani people with weapons to protect them from the Russian invaders and then became their biggest supplier of humanitarian aid after the war THEREFOR America is evil and the sand scum were justified in attacking us. I guess I would need a full frontal lobotomy to understand your postion. Tiassa, it appears that you are calling for America's intervention in the Sudan. The amount of hatred for America in the islamic world would be unparalleled if we intervened in the Sudaneese islamic genocide of christians in that region. After we intervened and were universally reviled in the islamic world.... would you then turn around and blame the USA for intervening? Your position appears to be that we are hated by the islamic world for not intervening in the Sudan. That position is utter lunancy. Islam and it's adherents are evil. They are engaging in murder, terrorism (over 90% of all terrorists are islamic), mayhem and genocide. We need to respond in kind. It is time for a holy crusade to wipe the islamic heretics off the face of the earth. They want a holy war and by god I hope they get it. MORE INFO FOR POOR TIASSA: Did you know that The Iranian government has killed over 3 million of it’s own people since their Islamic revolution? I suppose you don't want to talk about that do you? Should we stop the religious genocide in Iran? Do you think the Islamic world would love us if we did?
Well, at least you're trying. But your failure to understand the importance of the history you're trying to wrap your head around makes me wonder if you haven't already had the lobotomy. I agree, brain damage is required to think according to such simplistic devices as you have attributed. I like the fact that the only way this makes any relevant sense is if you're allegorically comparing the United States to a defenseless, battered wife trapped in a codependent, abuse-empowering relationship. To the other, if you're suggesting that the United States, as the battered, helpless wife, is empowering our opposition to take swings, I agree wholeheartedly. The most fulsome and fundamental error you've made here is in your repeated mantra that this or that rhetorical point is intended to justify terrorist actions. Perhaps if you pulled your head out of your ass for a few minutes, you might understand that pacifists find violence unacceptable. That is, violence. Frankly, this trend of war-hawks trying to accuse pacifists of justifying violence is rather puzzling; are all war-hawks that friggin' stupid? Your apathy toward history is compelling, too. On the one hand, you hold it up as an example; to the other, it seems to be inconsequential. You've wailed and whined about how Muslims treated Americans in this or that past situation. If you deny the validity of collected resentment against ongoing foreign-policy idiocies committed by the US government on behalf of its people, then you deny your own right to cite those past abuses of Americans by Muslims. It seems you can only justify warfare if you customize the conditions to meet your preconceived outcome. Perhaps most stunning is your apathy toward the debate in which you are participating. If you ever stray over to the religion forum, you'll probably catch me picking on Tony1 for his reading comprehension. I seriously question yours at this point. You've said we're blameless. That such a statement is utter horsepucky does not justify violence against us. It seems you don't care so much about your own assertions, such as blamelessness, as long as you justify the killing of human beings. I would suggest, Brad, that you take a few hours and read through our debate here again, and spend some time thinking about it in the context of your moronic summary of the points on the table. Each of your four laments is derived from part of our debate; you have made it absolutely crystal clear that you don't understand any of those points. You've also indicated that this debate isn't about the propriety of violence; your obsession with such hateful ideas so randomly splattered all over the topic indicates that this is more personal. It would seem your alpha-male streak is up and running again, Brad, but why try to score such a victory? Since you don't understand the rhetorical, moral, and historical aspects of this debate, why do you bother spewing your stupid pucky at all? You're giving the appearance of someone who is looking for a victory--any victory--and is willing to set up illusory windmills in lieu of actual giants to tilt. And if that's the case, it's even more repugnant than your frothing obsession with death. After all, to think that you would advocate the deaths of that many people just so you can feel better about yourself each night? I still think you should just go enlist, Brad. Since you're so capable and ready to go, why don't you? Violence takes little thought, and your posts are indicative of how little thought you've given the current conflict. But I understand that it's just easier to advocate war if you aren't going to fight. And it's much easier, apparently, to fight than it is to think. But give this debate another try, Brad, and maybe you'll be able to understand it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting much of you in this; after all, you're an alpha male predator. In fact, you're doing your nation a disservice if I understand your war-hawk notion. Since you're such a good killer, you owe your nation your active participation. Go on, sign on the dotted line, Brad ... it would be cool to get your posts from Afghanistan. You could tell us how many evil Muslim children you killed that day, and we'd all be real impressed. But do try this debate again, Brad. If it's still too hard for you to understand, we'll figure something out. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Her arguments shredded into so much confetti she is reduced to childish insults.... Tiassa, In 1990 I applied to the FBI and the Air Force. I had exceptionally high scores on the entrance tests to both institutions. Unfortunately past drug use (which I freely admitted) resulted in my rejection from both institutions. As I am 35 and now too old, the military will not accept me. It breaks my heart that I will never have the honor of splattering islamic fundamentalists. It is a true shame. I will make it easy for you. How is America to blame for the current crisis in the Middle East? How much of the blame is the Middle Easts? Iran butchers 3 million of it's own in a religious genocide and the rest of the middle east turns a blind eye. It has schools dedicated to terrorism whose graduates are sent to countries all over the world. The rest of the middle east turns a blind eye. Sudan engages in religious/racist genocide and the middle east turns a blind eye. Millions of non islamics are murdered by the islamic scum. The palestinians engage in terror and indoctrinate their children into it. The entire middle east supports them and their vicious ways. Israel has killed maybe a thousand Palestinians in the last few decades (and always in retaliation to atrocities committed against themselves). The whole middle east holds the terrorists up as martyrs. Lets do the math here, the islamists are butchering millions upon millions of non-islamics in relgious genocides while Israel kills a thousand Palestinians in self defense. America is hated because we support Israel. Israel is the only state in the Middle East that is worth a spit. The middle east is one big bunch of bigoted islamic fanatics. Bush is really dropping the ball on this one. If he went with the scorched earth policy, we would be much better off. He needs to grow himself some sack and obliterate the arab scum. All of the consensus building with the arab nations is a major mistake. The arab nations had their chance, time for them to die. Time for us to take their oil. Game over Mohammed, game over. More education for Miss Tiassa: Have you ever heard of the Palestinian "Sesame Street"-style childrens show called the "Children's Club"? Did you know that that the show features children between the ages of 4-10? Did you know that they sing songs about beoming "suicide warriors", "Violence, anger, anger, anger", "Holy war to the end against the Zionest enemy." Did you know that the UN's convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38 specifically mandates that children under the age of 15 are not to "take a direct part in the hostilities", "State Parties shall refrain from recruiting any person who has not attained the age of fifteen years...."[/b] Palestinians are clearly and egregiously violating the UN charter. Where is the punishment and condemnation for this violation of human rights? We need to kill their teachers and murder their clerics.... sing it with me sister. How about we take a gander at some Palestinian Authority textbooks. Here are a few notable quotes: The most virulent bigotry in the world and Tiassa makes excuses for it. For shame, Tiassa, for shame. AHA!!!!!!!! I found da smoking gun. I never understood why Tiassa kept on trying to drag the the native american indians into this. I now completely understand. She has been reading from the most lunatic, sick, demencted newspaper to ever disgrace the face of the earth.... Al-Hayat Al-Jadida. Here is a direct quote from this terrorist PLO-sponsered rag from Sept 6, 2001: Nothing but net for Mr Rules.... nothing but friggin net. http://www.pmw.org.il/report-32.html Burn their mosques for that is where they forment their hate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Brad Rules
I was watching <i>The West Wing</i> the other day, and they made a good point: Fill in the blank: "Islamic fundamentalists are to Islam what ___ is to Christianity." Answer: "The Ku Klux Klan". Don't confuse Islamic fundamentalists with the majority of Muslims. You wouldn't confuse true Christians with the KKK (would you?)
Hmmm ... well, there's the Cold War. You'll notice that fundamental Islam set in where Communism had once been. This, actually, was pointed out to me only last week in some random newspaper article. Curious, isn't it? What began when the United States betrayed the Bolsheviks on the occasion of their Revolution sets the stage? Fundamentalism arises when there is no educated, enlightened society to temper the superstitions of the uneducated. Poverty is a major factor in violent fundamentalism, as well. As a frothing war-dog, you most certainly will recall that Communism resulted in poverty because of the Cold War. Hmm ... poverty, a collapsing empire and therefore warfare ... how long has Afghanistan been in conflict? Perhaps we shouldn't have played the Cold War in Afghanistan? Or any of these other violent backwaters we're going to have to figure out at some point or another? It isn't that America is to blame, Brad. If you had paid any attention to the pacifism you so disdain, you might realize that it doesn't limit itself to violence against Americans. Pacifists have long noted other places in the world where there are conflicts. They've had a while to think about why those conflicts are happening, and why not, since nobody's doing anything to break the idiotic cycle of violence. Do you understand that our foreign policy profits America at other nations' expense? It's one of the reasons we're constantly meddling with things. Every once in a while, people get really pissed off. And when the United States government basically disrespects anyone who doesn't get down and suck it off, some people are going to decide that there's no other recourse. For fifty years the West has ignored the Palestinian issue unless it was condemning the Palestinians. Hello? The UN forcibly relocated millions of people and the United States was the muscle. I mean, really ... isn't that sort of intrusion exactly what we feared of the Communists? If it's so reasonable a measure, then why do we spend billions preventing anyone from pushing us around like that? The Islamic world has been a political pawn in the Cold War, and previously a military foe of the Christian West, of which the United States is the bright and menacing zenith. It's violent there? Of course it's violent there! There's not enough food; people are sick; education is somewhere between none and woefully poor; and it's not so much that nobody will help you, but that everyone who shows up is just f--king around with you. Economy and education go a long way toward stabilizing the violence that results from such a nightmare. Of the various violences that you cite in your excoriations of Islam: why are these important now? You seem to forget that pacifists generally mentioned those things. I live near the University District in town, and it's not like there's not always been a plethora of cultural-education events outlining these very plights you lament. They didn't warrant anything in the way of consideration before, much less actual military interention. What is it about September 11 that makes it that much more important? That you're pissed off and oh, hey, here's this convenient little thing that nobody cared about before that we should all care about now so that you can feel more legitimized in your hatred? What the hell is your problem? Why weren't these things important before someone beat our Death Star routine? Yeah, I know. Amazing isn't it? It's worse than televangelism here, but only because they're Western, and prefer money to blood. Like I said ... education and economy. Erase poverty and desperation, educate the people, and they'll start to understand what God is trying to tell them. In this sense, I'm fortunate to only have to put up with Christians. To the other, Christians have been f--king with Islam for centuries. It's an old fight to the Muslims; apathy is the best they expect of us, and spite somewhere about the standard. Given the things I'm expected as a Westerner to accept of Christian history and present, I can cope with the fact that Islam has fallen to a bad state; instead of doing all we can to foster that violence, we should be trying to fix it. Settling the Palestinian state is a good start. Well? What do you want? It's true. Sure, it's not as sugar-coated as Americans like, but that's your own damn problem. Funny thing is that I read a line today in an article by Aziz al-Akbari which reminds that Rabia, "the great woman Sufi", once noted that she wanted to burn down the Kaa'ba if it stood in the way of the worshipper's way to God. Imagine that, a wise, honored, female Islamic mystic ... --Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Tiassa, you are nothing more than a schill for the terrorist PLO lobby. You hide your bigotry and hate under flowery speeches. At least I am honest and don't try to hide my hatred. Shame on you. Lets see if I got this right. The islamic world is butchering the non-islamic world in the middle east. This doesn't seem to bother you. The one group of people that has the sack to fight back when the terrorist Islamics attack them is villified by you. I know you would prefer the non-Islamics to roll over and expose their necks to the evil Islamic horde. Perhaps America should take a REAL close look at the Islamics living within our own borders. It is they who threaten and attack us....
Well, Brad You didn't, you genocidal, idiotic beast you. Ooh yeah. Talk sexier. Tell me about killing people and how hot it makes you. Come on, baby ... be a dirty little boy and tell me all about your sexy genocide .... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Can you elaborate on this? And as for the world turning a blind eye, the US persists in self-defeating and pointless sanctions as a 'quick-fix' foreign policy on the cheap. Iran is as close as you get to democracy in the middle east, and the next regional power. Makes sense to be friendly, it will be a great country.
Tiassa wrote: Thank you for that Tiassa. Your previous attempts to disguise your hatred of America and Americans have now been proven as fraudulent. I really don't understand you. Your posts indicate a deep and rabid hatred for America and adulation for the Palestinians. If you hate America so much, why don't you leave? If you love the Palestinians so much, why don't you live with them? Currently 50% of Americans believe that all Arabs should have ID cards. Before we were attacked, that number would have been 0%. If Arab terrorists strike us that hard again, America will become a very unsafe place for Arabs and Islamics.... I can guarantee you that. The biggest reason for this is that the Arabic community in America is showing more loyalty to the terrorist Arab nations in the Middle East than they are to the country they live in. I understand your frustration. You can't stand a person more knowledgable about the Midddle East pointing out the bigotry and hatred of the Arab/Islamic nations. You would prefer that information not get out to the public at large. Divert Americas attention from the Islamic genocides in the Phillipines, Indonesia, Sudan, Iran, etc... and focus it on the one nation that resists genocide... ISRAEL. If ISRAEL acted in the same manner as their muslim neighbors.... ALL OF THEIR MUSLIM NEIGHBORS WOULD BE DEAD!!! Get your priorities straight sister. LOVE AMERICA and STAY. HATE AMERICA and LEAVE!!! We now know that people within our borders who hate our country are capable of mass murder. It is time to evict or imprison these scum, they are wasting our precious oxygen. Captain, Heres info on the genocide in Sudan. Look at the number of non-muslims killed or displaced. http://www.endgenocide.org/genocide/sudan.html My numbers on Iran were way off. My source turned out to be bogus. My apologies. I should have verified before posting. Rest assured that all other data I have posted is vetted. http://www.endgenocide.org/genocide/bahai.html
Brad Rules ... One thing I can say for tiassa, he's consistant. If you have the time, check out the thread 'Chinese Drug War' http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3253&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 I think you might enjoy the exchange.
For your eyes !!!!! Brad no offense to your hate and violent views but some thing I came across, So sharing it with you. Truth is, we’re terrorized because we’re hated By ROBERT BOWMAN Tell people the truth, Mr. President -- about terrorism. If deceptions about terrorism go unchallenged, then the threat will continue until it destroys us. The truth is that none of our thousands of nuclear weapons can protect us from these threats. No Star Wars system -- no matter how technically advanced, no matter how many trillions of dollars are poured into it -- can protect us from a nuclear weapon delivered in a sailboat or a Cessna or a suitcase or a Ryder rental truck. Not one weapon in our vast arsenal, not a penny of the $270 billion a year we spend on so-called defense can defend against a terrorist bomb. That is a military fact. As a retired lieutenant colonel and a frequent lecturer on national security issues, I have often quoted Psalm 33: “A king is not saved by his mighty army. A warrior is not saved by his great strength.” The obvious reaction is, “Then what can we do? Is there nothing we can do to provide security for our people?” There is. But to understand it requires that we know the truth about the threat. Mr. President, you did not tell the American people the truth about why we are the targets of terrorism when you explained why we bombed Afghanistan and Sudan. You said that we are a target because we stand for democracy, freedom and human rights in the world. Nonsense! We are the target of terrorists because, in much of the world, our government stands for dictatorship, bondage and human exploitation. We are the target of terrorists because we are hated. And we are hated because our government has done hateful things. In how many countries have agents of our government deposed popularly elected leaders and replaced them with puppet military dictators who were willing to sell out their own people to American multinational corporations? We did it in Iran when the U.S. Marines and the CIA deposed Mossadegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We replaced him with the Shah and armed, trained and paid his hated Savak national guard, which enslaved and brutalized the people of Iran -- all to protect the financial interests of our oil companies. Is it any wonder that there are people in Iran who hate us? We did it in Chile. We did it in Vietnam. More recently, we tried to do it in Iraq. And, of course, how many times have we done it in Nicaragua and all the other banana republics of Latin America? Time after time we have ousted popular leaders who wanted the riches of the land to be shared by the people who worked it. We replaced them with murderous tyrants who would sell out their own people so the wealth of the land could be taken out by the likes of Domino Sugar, the United Fruit Company, Folgers and Chiquita Banana. In country after country, our government has thwarted democracy, stifled freedom and trampled human rights. That’s why it is hated around the world. And that’s why we’re the target of terrorists. People in Canada enjoy democracy, freedom and human rights. So do the people of Norway and Sweden. Have you heard of Canadian embassies being bombed? Or Norwegian, or Swedish? We are not hated because we practice democracy, freedom and human rights. We are hated because our government denies these things to people in Third World countries whose resources are coveted by our multinational corporations. That hatred we have sown has come back to haunt us in the form of terrorism -- and in the future, nuclear terrorism. Once the truth about why the threat exists is understood, the solution becomes obvious. We must change our ways. Getting rid of our nuclear weapons -- unilaterally if necessary -- will enhance our security. Drastically altering our foreign policy will ensure it. Instead of sending our sons and daughters around the world to kill Arabs so we can have the oil under their sand, we should send them to rebuild their infrastructure, supply clean water and feed starving children. Instead of continuing to kill thousands of Iraqi children every day with our sanctions, we should help Iraqis rebuild their electric power plants, their water treatment facilities, their hospitals -- all the things we destroyed and prevented them from rebuilding with sanctions. Instead of training terrorists and death squads, we should close the School of the Americas. Instead of supporting insurrection, destabilization, assassination and terror around the world, we should abolish the CIA and give the money to relief agencies. In short, we should do good instead of evil. Who would try to stop us? Who would hate us? Who would want to bomb us? That is the truth, Mr. President. That’s what the American people need to hear. Robert Bowman flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam. He is presently bishop of the United Catholic Church in Melbourne Beach, Fla. National Catholic Reporter, October 2, 1998
A possibility...............or maybe not? The Lies About Taliban Heroin Russia and Oil the Real Objectives With Heroin As A Weapon of War A Replay of CIA’s Vietnam-era Drug Dealing FTW Revises Its Map On Economic Impacts by Michael C. Ruppert [© Copyright 2001, Michael C. Ruppert and From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com. May be reproduced or distributed for non-profit purposes only] FTW, October 10, 2001 – The governments of the United States and Britain - along with a lap-dog mainstream media all too willing to regurgitate falsehoods - are feeding us a line of demonstrably inaccurate lies about the Taliban and opium. We are being warned of a “new flood” of al-Q’aeda opium as the war expands. As British Prime Minister Tony Blair boasts, “We will bomb their poppy fields,” he neglects to mention that there aren’t any poppy fields in Taliban controlled areas to bomb. This outrageous deception of the public, in an effort to stir up support for the war effort, is further evidence that most of the rest of the government’s line following the attacks of September 11, is simply not credible. A simple side-by-side comparison of reports from the UN and the U.S. government, along with major media stories from before and after the Sept. 11 attacks exposes the lie. Even the U.S. State Department (www.state.gov/www/regions/sa/facts_taliban_drugs.html.) acknowledges that in July 2000, Mullah Omar of the Taliban ordered a ban on poppy cultivation in all Taliban controlled regions of Afghanistan. That State Department Fact Sheet, published after Jan 1, 2000, however, expresses U.S. disbelief in the ban’s effectiveness. This position is, however, flatly contradicted by some very credible sources, including Secretary of State Colin Powell. He gave the Taliban $43 million this May to replace the income lost to Afghani farmers as a result of the ban. Their wheat crops had failed due to the drought and they had no money from opium harvests to buy food. The middlemen who had stockpiled the opium had income. But the farmers, who had harvested in the summer of 2000, had already been paid. In February 2000 citing reports from Agence France-Presse, the AP, and UPI, FTW published a story describing the Taliban’s successful destruction of their poppy crop. We viewed this at the time – possibly incorrectly – as a move by the Taliban to take $90 billion in drug cash out of the western banking system. That sales remained stable, however, is reflected in the fact that heroin prices fell only slightly in 2000. Had Afghanistan stopped selling altogether, then Western Europe, which gets its opium from Afghanistan, would have seen a steep increase in prices. It did not. So why then did Powell give Afghanistan the $43 million? I wish I knew. Now, based upon new evidence, we know that in 1999 Afghanistan produced a bumper crop of 4,600 metric tons of opium and that this has been verified by a number of sources including the United Nations Drug Control Program (UNDCP) as well as in a multitude of press stories. The 2000 harvest was close to 3,300 metric tons. The result, as Colombia expanded poppy cultivation in the late 1990s, and as the Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia showed only a minor drop in output, was a glut. Therefore the Taliban’s ban on production would have had the impact of creating a price support by reducing supplies. How successful was the ban and destruction of crops? Well, aside from the above reports, which all indicated that inspections confirming the ban had taken place, consider the following: - On January 3, 2001 an ABC News story, posted on their web site stated, “Pakistan’s Foreign Secretary Inam ul-Haq’s claim to have eliminated all opium plantations in Taliban controlled territories – reported by Agence France-Presse -- seems to have been confirmed by a UN survey. “This development could have several important ramifications for both the geopolitical situation in the region and the world drug trade... “The center of world drug production will shift from Afghanistan, which accounted for 75 percent of world opium production last year, to Colombia and the Golden Triangle on the border between Myanmar (Burma) and Thailand. A February 16, 2001 AP story by Kathy Gannon was headlined, “Taliban virtually wipes out opium production in Afghanistan.” It opened with these lines: “U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has virtually wiped out opium production in Afghanistan – once the world’s largest producer – since banning poppy cultivation in July. “A 12-member team from the U.N. Drug Control Program spent two weeks searching most of the nation’s largest opium-producing areas and found so few poppies that they do not expect any opium to come out of Afghanistan this year. “’We are not just guessing. We have seen the proof in the fields,’ said Bernard Frahi, regional director for the U.N. program in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He laid out photographs of vast tracts of land cultivated with wheat alongside pictures of the same fields taken a year earlier – a sea of blood red poppies. On May 24, 2001 Barry Berak of the New York Times wrote a story entitled, “Taliban Ban on Drug Crops Is Working, U.S. Concludes.” Here are the lead paragraphs: “ELMAND PROVINCE, Afghanistan, May 20 – This has been heroin’s great heartland, where the narcotic came to life as an opium resin taken from fragile buds of red and white poppies. Last year, 75 per cent of the world’s opium crop was grown in Afghanistan, with the biggest yield sprouting from here in the fertile plains of the country’s south, sustained by the meander of the Helmand River. “But something astonishing has become evident with this spring’s harvest. Behind the narrow dikes of packed earth, the fields are empty of their most profitable plant. Poor farmers, scythes in hand, stoop among brown stems. “Mile after mile, there is only a dry stubble of wheat to cut from the lumpy soil… “But American narcotics officials who visited the country confirmed earlier United Nations reports that the Taliban had, in one growing season, managed a rare triumph in the long and losing war on drugs…” Before looking at what the press is saying since the WTC attacks, take three facts and lock them firmly in your brain. First, the opium-growing season in the region, according to the UN and other drug monitoring agencies, is a planting in October and November with a harvest in May and June. There have been no crops planted or harvested in Afghanistan or Pakistan since the summer of 2000. The Taliban and farmers have been sustaining themselves by selling stockpiles, with the prices fairly stable since the ban. Second, Afghanistan, for the last four years, has been suffering under one of the worst droughts in its history. The last year has been the worst. Third, Central Asian expert, Vladimir Davlatov, writing for “1 world media,” from the Tajikistan capital of Dushnabe, interviewed a General [Rustam Nazarov] in command of Tajik border guards charged with intercepting heroin supplies smuggled out of Afghanistan. The August 31 story (Issue No. 67) quoted the General as saying, “The quality of Afghan heroin has recently deteriorate[d].” The Propaganda - “The West At War: Drugs Wipeout – We’ll Bomb Poppy Fields – Blair Targets Terror Profits – Poppy fields which supply the Taliban’s multi-billion pound drugs trade are to be a key target of military strikes in Afghanistan” read the headline of a September 30, 2000 story in the British paper, The Sunday Mirror. The story said: “A senior Downing street aide said: ‘We have reliable information that the Taliban are planning to use money from drugs to finance military action, and that bin Laden has ordered farmers to step up production…” How can they step up production? It takes six months to grow a crop and they have to plant one first. The planting doesn’t start until November. Meantime we’re bombing the region to smithereens. Is this a new form of plowing the soil? “There is an estimated 3,000 tonnes of opium stockpiled inside Afghanistan …” OK, what have they been selling for the last year, wheat? Mushrooms? - “Flood of Cheap Afghan Heroin,” blazed the headline of a story in the Times of London dated September 25, 2001. The lead sentences of that story read: “AFGHAN farmers are ready to swamp world markets with heroin amid signs that the Taleban has dropped its ban on opium growing. “The ban was imposed by Mullah Muhammad Omar last year, leaving many farmers ruined. But the sudden halving of the price of raw opium to $250 a kg suggests the decree has been reversed.” So whose heroin is flooding the markets? - The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times and the Washington Post, along with every network, have all reported that the Taliban’s response to U.S. attacks will be to increase heroin production. Strange for a country that is now militarily sealed off and has no remaining operable airfields and whose land borders are now sealed by the U.S. military. That gives a whole new meaning to the term “Thunder Road.” - On September 30 The Chicago Tribune published a story entitled “Panicked Opium Traders Unload Huge Stocks. Implying that it was the Taliban doing so, the story opened with the lead: “ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – Just as the Dow Jones industrial average fell precipitously in the wake of the terrorist attacks in the U.S., so did the main economic marker in the ramshackle street bazaars of Pakistan’s North West Frontier province. “Traders from Peshawar reported that the price of opium had plunged from $700 a kilo to $90 since September 11…” There is no mention in the story of the fact that Pakistan itself grows the opium poppy or that the Pakistani government of Musharraf Pervez – our erstwhile ally – has been dependent upon drug money to sustain itself for at least ten years. How come the story doesn’t look to the Pakistani issue? - The Ananova press agency reported on September 29th, “…A Downing Street spokesman says there is evidence of a sudden movement of opium out of neighboring Pakistan where it was being stockpiled.” Now let me get this straight. The stockpiles are in Pakistan so we’re going to bomb Afghanistan for it. That makes real good sense! ********************IMPORTANT******************** - In this most outrageous propaganda of all, the Indian news service PTI in New Delhi, published a story on October 4, headlined, “Laden Planned to Wreak Havoc in U.S. Through Super Heroin.” It’s lead paragraph reads: “The most wanted terrorist Osama bin Laden had planned to develop a ‘super heroin’ drug and export the same to United States and West Europe to wreak havoc there much before the deadly September 11 attacks. ‘The terror network headed by Osama bin Laden has tried to develop a high-strength form of heroin that it planned to export to United States and Western Europe,” a major American daily said today quoting intelligence reports.” ***This is the most patent b.s. I have ever read.*** I specialized in heroin at LAPD. I was also trained by the DEA in 1976. There is no such thing as super heroin. Heroin is a chemical, diacetyl morphine. Its purest form is 100%. It is usually “cut” at least four times – each time by 50% - to 6.25% purity or less before it is sold on the streets. There is no way to make it stronger unless you just cut it less, which automatically cuts the profits to street vendors. And it is the middlemen and retailers who do the cutting, not the manufacturer. It is easier to smuggle one kilo of pure heroin from Afghanistan to Uzbekistan or Pakistan or Turkey than it is to smuggle eight kilos at 6.25%. It would take eight times as many airplanes and trucks. Each time a middleman cuts the heroin he has twice as much to sell. This lie of a story implies that Osama bin Laden controls street-level drug dealing in the United States from the black ghettos of New York and L.A to the white suburbs of San Francisco and Chicago. That’s the only way it is possible to get a higher-strength heroin on the streets of America. And what about the fact that the U.S. receives – according to the DEA and the Department of Justice – more than 60 per cent of its heroin from Colombia. Does bin Laden control Colombia too? “Oh Yeah, We Forgot To Tell You” Only belatedly have major outlets like the Wall Street Journal (Oct. 2), The Associated Press (Oct. 5), and the Washington Post (Oct. 5) begun to acknowledge, in stories placed well back in the paper, and with much less emphasis, that the Northern Alliance – our allies against the Taliban – are now in real control of the heroin trade. Smuggling routes have shifted from south through Pakistan northward through Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan. They acknowledge the obvious – that the Taliban is no longer the primary supplier of heroin. How could they be? The Real Story In March 2001 FTW reported from Moscow that Uzbekistan was “awash” in a sea of poppies. Since September 11 we have seen Uzbekistan not surprisingly become the hub for all U.S. military operations going into Afghanistan. It was, in fact, the very first place that U.S. military and “special operations” forces deployed – within days of the attacks. Unmentioned in press stories is the fact that firms like Southern Air, Evergreen and other CIA proprietary or contract operations have been establishing a presence in the Uzbek capital of Tashkent for more than a year. And Tashkent is a surprisingly modern city. It even has an Intercontinental Hotel. This is undoubtedly due in part to increased oil exploration, but it hauntingly parallels our experience from another era - Vietnam. Now, as we are hearing the first reports that the Uzbeki government, fighting its own battle against a Muslim insurgency, will permit offensive operations from its military bases, FTW has had two reports that CIA operative Richard Secord has recently traveled to Tashkent. Secord’s documented history of involvement in heroin smuggling, from Vietnam, Laos and Thailand in the 1960’s and his criminal involvement in illegal operations, including drug smuggling during the Iran-Contra years, tells us exactly what is happening. These same intelligence sources have also reported that many other CIA veterans of Iran-Contra and Vietnam – despite their age – are converging on Tashkent like bees to a field of flowers – poppy flowers. In the 1960’s and 70’s, as the Vietnam War raged, the CIA fostered and maintained a series of covert wars in Laos and Cambodia. They did this by funding their operations with heroin, refined from opium grown by indigenous tribesmen including the Hmong in Laos. The Hmong, in turn became surrogate U.S. armies and the money from the trade supported the CIA and its allies as the region became totally unstable. In the years since, the only difference is that drug money has become a $500-600 billion a year cash flow that is now an essential part of the world banking and financial system because it provides the liquid cash necessary to make the “minimum monthly payments” on huge stock and derivative and investment bubbles in the U.S. and Britain. These bubbles were already bursting in the weeks prior to the September 11 attacks. Now, as the CIA moves to control the drug trade in the region you can be sure of several things. First, when the world sees an explosion of heroin from the region it won’t be the Taliban’s doing. Second, the cash flows from the smuggling will now be directed through U.S. banks and stocks. That is what the CIA does. Third, those cash flows – as direct air operations from Tashkent to the U.S. become commonplace - will be taken away from Russia, the Balkans, Turkey and Eastern Europe. Fourth, the result of that will be de-stabilization of the entire region. Fifth, destabilization in the region will Balkanize Russia. Sixth, the increasing U.S. military and economic presence will consolidate U.S. control over the vast oil and gas reserves in the region. A revived Unocal-Saudi pipeline project, which will begin construction soon after the U.S. establishes control, will take the oil and gas from Central Asia, through Afghanistan, and down to the Pakistani coast where it will then be sold to China and Japan. The profits from those sales will come back into Wall Street. This will be a further drain on Russian influence in the region and greatly increase global instability. Throughout the 1990s the United States - under an exclusive arrangement coordinated by the Harvard Endowment, Goldman Sachs and the U.S Treasury - looted some $300 billion from Russia. During the period from 1989-2001 the population of that country shrank from 165 to 145 million people. As infrastructure collapsed, as services disappeared, as unemployment skyrocketed, as the Ruble collapsed, the life expectancy for a Russian male dropped from 68 to 48 years. **Make no mistake. Russia is the target here just as much as is the propping up of a feeble U.S. economy with drug money. And remember that Russia still has most of its nuclear arsenal intact.** I know some of you immediately reply ***Source Please...*** so here it is: http://www.copvcia.com/stories/oct_2001/heroin.html
Mark, Thanks for ruining a perfectly interesting thread with long, stupid, boring pastes from another site. Post the link, we can read it if we are so inclined. If you have something to say, SAY IT. It is my custom to never read huge cut and pastes which have been scammed off of other sites. I will occasionally read links. Tiassa, You scare the hell out of me. I would not be surprised to find out that you are sending money to the Palestinian terror organizations. I have already proven that you read their terrorist propaganda. Are you a person Americans should fear? The reason I hate pacifists is simple. Read the link below: http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/10/25/gen.binladen.nuclear/index.html While the pacifists cover their eyes and plug their ears, the islamic terrorists have acquired MILITARY grade nuclear material. While the pacifists would have sit around and negotiate, that material could be put into weapons. Bin Laden is working at feverous pitch to weaponize the nuclear material so he can detonate in the USA. Pacifists are the biggest threat to freedom in the civilized world. They are dangerous, dangerous individuals.
Brad, you seem to have a problem with your perspective; pacifists want people to know about these atrocities. Where they become invalid points for argument is in your cry for war: if these issues are important now, then they were important before 9/11. But since they weren't important enough to justify intervention prior to 9/11, they are not appropriate justification for our actions in response to the New York atrocity. All I'm asking for is a little integrity instead of outright, idiotic bloodlust. And that shows how stupid Americans are. Those 50% have just sold out to the terrorists: if we wreck liberty in its defense, they win. I'm surprised an alpha-male patriot like yourself can't figure that out. You're so funny sometimes, Brad. Why, then, do you hate America so much you'd sacrifice it in your attempt to defend it? And yes, those mass murderers are called Americans. Not all of them advocate mass murder, of course; take me, for instance. How you equate pacifism with wishing harm is beyond me; I just figure it's that you're desperate to have something to say in lieu of actually understanding the situation you're viewing. --Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
What greater love can a man have for his country than protecting it from dangerous fanatical pacifists like Tiassa? If we let Tiassa's view rule, western civilization would devolve into the dark ages and nuclear annihilation. Tiassas constant treasonous and virulent attacks on her own country are proof enough that she hates us. Her divisive, hateful diatribes are allowed in this country because of it's greatness. If a citizen of another country blasphemed her government like Tiassa has blasphemed ours, they would have been executed on the spot. She represents a dangerous lunatic fringe that seeks to overturn the freedom that we so love in our dear country. Her and those of her ilk
So you believe in Jewish media as well? No wonder you hate Moslems or other religions. Oh Well seems like you are full of hatered. Not much left there for you out there. Hate , Hate and more hate. Right?? Good for health isn't it?? Well I don't care if you and Tiassa are arguing about Palistine or Israel. All I am saying here that, Don't believe all you see in media. And don't paint 1.25 billion people with one brush. And Please Sir GROW UP.
Regarding the Pacifists: We have to take the utmost measures to stomp out terrorism before it stomps us out. This includes, wiping out the Taliban, if it means bombing aid centers, civilian areas, and deploying ground troops in the cities. We have to eliminate Iraq, they probably developed the Antrax spores for Bin Laden. We have to chase down the networks in every country, including our own, and our allies. If at all possible we have to enforce our stance with any country that doesn't aid in our fight. If they refuse to block terrorist assets, than we shouldn't do business with them. Saudi Arabia will have to be delt with delicatley though. No Palestinan state for a few more years, if we do that we playcate to the terrorists. We have to carry a big stick, and swing it at whomever needs a spanking to win this war.
Wow ... What greater love can a man show for his country than to betray the very thing about it that makes it worth loving? Your hatred of freedom is quite stuipid in a nation of liberty, but right on par with patriotism. What greater love can you show your country, Brad Rules, than to lend your efforts toward helping the terrorists win? When you start carving apart freedom in the name of security, you are doing half the terrorists' job for them. As if the war-hawk mentality has brought us peace? You see, part of pacifism is understanding why people fight. As I've noted, the reason why we have an enemy deserves at least as much consideration as how best to kill it. Well now, charging me with a capital crime, eh? Document it, boy. I'm willing to put money down that you're inventing my political position as you go; it's easy to shoot fish if you put them in a barrel, isn't it? I know; ain't America great? Why do you want to turn it into a nation like that which you would kill? Why do you hate freedom so much? When we rescind our freedoms to fear, we surrender the war. I don't understand this patriotic idiocy whereby we'll fight anyone on the pretense that they're trying to wreck our sacred freedom, but that we're perfectly happy to do it ourselves. Ah, that's a wonderful paranoia, isn't it? Now here's the challenge: can you demonstrate it? Brad, you're the one calling for genocides, who decries the liberties which separate America from the tyrannies, and who demonstrates fundamental failures to understand the situation you're attempting to perceive. How can you complain that someone is seeking to overturn freedom? You're openly advocating it. And that shite-stinking hypocrisy of yours pretty clearly demonstrates your inability to understand the subjects you've taken on. Why are you selling out the American ideal for the terrorists? thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
