The Big Bang and Magnetic fields

So...is it at all possible that you may have been mistaken when you stated :

As in all of your multiple erroneous assertions before - you provide no evidence, nor accept any evidence of your erroneous assertions being just that - ERRONEOUS!!

But, you are able to copy/paste from Wili :

Comprehension of the written words of other Posters is what all of this is about! Whether or not your "peers on this forum... obviously know something about cosmology", or whether or not you "stand by the(ir) judgement" or just "get off" by associating yourself with them is irrelevant!

Well. paddoboy, you could start with any of your allegations and accusations about me...but instead, you will just repeat and parrot...hence :

"...I asked you earlier in the piece....You need to check..." !?!?

paddoboy, telling me what I "need", is not "asking"!?!?

paddoboy, when did I make any "erronous(sic) claims about self education" ?

krash661, err, paddoboy, please Quote my Posted "erronous(sic) claims about self education" - my bad !!...you never provide real evidence...

...but you do repeat and parrot and copy/paste :

krash661, err, paddoboy, again you make an erroneous assertion - that you can not possibly provide any evidence or proof of!

AGAIN, PLEASE QUOTE MY POST WHERE I PROPOSE MY "own pet model" OR STATE ANY ADHERENCE TO OR ACCEPTANCE OF THE "Plasma/Electric model"?
And again, you will not, because your imagined/delusional assertion can not and will not create that Post - no matter how many times you repeat it!

krash661, err, paddoboy, since I never ascribed to/adopted/believed/seriously considered the "Plasma/Electric model", nor claimed/stated that I did...again you are just parroting/repeating your own imagined/delusional assertion!!

You should accept that!

BTW...could you please continue to copy/paste the same thing over and over and pay no attention to what real men Post?

I asked the above question, so that you would actually be able to succeed in doing something that I requested, krash661, err, paddoboy!!!

 

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Listen matey, I think it's about time you took a disprin and had a good lie down....I certainly don't want to be the cause of your coronary.
Oh, the answer to the above is the OP.......
And yes, I'll keep on citing WIKI and anything else that supports my reason, just as any normal bloke would do.

Again, take it easy fella!


PS: Ever heard the saying "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery?'
So please, no hero worship where I'm concerned, OK???

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Sure it is......But gobbldydook posts such as yours require an extra effort.

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And my peers on this forum speak for themselves....and I find all quite knowledgable and great help to a layman such as myself...especially when refuting ratbags, pseudoscience pushers and anti mainstream fanatics.
I havn't figured out which category you actually fit into yet. Maybe all three???

 

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Your continued feckless attempts at humor or insults cause me no suffering whatsoever, sorry for your confusion.
However your continued evasion of and failure to answer questions or Quote any of my Posts containing what you consider(?) evidence(?) or proof(?) of your assertions - as pointed out by brucep - only reflect on your own inabilities and shortcomings.

 

I assert nothing. Established science asserts it.....It makes sense, and I tippy toe on there shoulders and learn and see what I can......

Your own anti mainstream nonesense is just that....take it easy, alrighty?

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[more attempt at humour]

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Efforts in which you continue to fail miserably! And also your "peers" - the heroes you seem to "stroke" and "worship", continuously!
Yet, paddoboy, you repeatedly boast and brag of your esteemed failures!

krash661, err, paddoboy, you will also fail miserably at your puerile and inane attempts to "bait me" or "insult me" or even "fit me in a category"!
Heck, you do not seemingly even have the ability to use "spell check", let alone understand what you copy/paste!

But, krash661, err, paddoboy, please continue to play your "little childish games" and soak up the "admiration of you peers", that for some reason it seems to be what you rely on or need to maintain your "imagined virtual superiority".

 

Bingo!!!! Have that disprin matey and a good lay down before you have a coronary.

You should be a little bit wiser after this thread anyway, and any small part I have played in that, I did with gladness and humility.

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Originally Posted by dumbest man on earth View Post
brucep, i have no problem thinking coherently, or reading with full comprehension - I know exactly what you said. Regardless of "this science forum", I have done my homework, in the real world.
I did not get my education by reading a few books by noted authors or perusing websites, I actually attended Colleges - and graduated. And, brucep, I also know what assertions are - and just like those proffered by Grumpy and paddoboy - more often than not, they are given with no supporting evidence whatsoever!

I was very careful to accompany all my statements (NOT ASSERTIONS!) with the Quoted evidence to back them up. The responses were neither in kind, nor indeed, kind.

The conduct/actions/behavior by these "Valued" members of this Forum are, at the very least, disrespectful. When I put any deep thought into the conduct/actions/behavior exhibited, it seems that they are lacking in any true healthy self-esteem and choose to see this Forum as their own "little immature mental/self-masturbatory playground" - where they can "get their rocks off" by deluding themselves into believing that they are somehow mentally superior to real actual adult men.

brucep, these children realize (barely) that they are on an internet forum that they (falsely) believe affords them anonymity and protection to engage in conduct/actions/behavior that they could not and would not attempt toward anyone in the real world.

I, dmoe, on the other hand, choose to conduct myself withe same discipline I employ in the real world - I conduct myself like a man - I make no statements asserted as fact without the evidence and fortitude to back those statements.

They obviously, and possibly(?) yourself, brucep,..."Don't like it?"!!! So...they and possibly(?) yourself "play the little puerile games" that this Forum seems to rely on, just so the "Forum Elders or Elite have something to laugh at". That is their (and possibly yours?) prerogative, and I applaud them choosing to exercise their prerogatives. It makes it so much easier to allow them to act immature when I realize that they are not just acting.

brucep, I have done my HOMEWORK - they could not maintain attention even long enough to remember what they wrote from one sentence to the next, it seemed at times : example below -


The actual quote states "more THAN", but "assertions" need not be factual, evidently!

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” - Albert Einstein

brucep, at any rate, I am secure in my education, I know and fully understand the sciences and other disciplines, and I am not in any way threatened by anyone - let alone some virtual personality on an internet Forum.

They and others on this Forum speak highly of you, and as I told you before I have read your Posts on this Forum. That being said, may I ask that, if it is not too much - that you might possibly once more re-read this Thread, from the beginning, with an Honest eye and no prejudice - just to see if I was indeed just making "assertions" and am indeed guilty of the other accusations/allegations I have been slighted for?

I only ask you this, because you do seem to be somewhat more reasonable in your Posts... so possibly?!

BTW - I have no "like or dislike" for "it" - it is just the internet - it is not real life!
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That post you've commented on, just about sums up this weird character and most other conspiracy nutters and anti mainstream fanatics.

 

Wiser...meh...I caught your act months ago....and now you have Proven it is not an act...not really wiser...maybe just "a little bit" surer.

So...try to get help...

 

I have asked you nicely to drop the hero complex regarding me.

 

It is easier to parrot traditions, and appear to be right, since one can use majority rule to support your claim. But when it comes to cosmology, what we have are philosophical guesses as to what happened.

If you look at dark energy and matter, this is something needed by the theory, yet we have never seen this in the lab, to make sure it is not all in the imagination (emperor's new clothes) and required to avoid dealing with reality. We talk so casually about the dark stuff like it is as common to knowledge as the air we breath, yet it is all in the herd imagination relative to lab proof. The scientific method was invented to help avoid fantasy posing as reality.

If lab proof is not important, I could call that effects we see is due to the breath of God, since there is no requirement to prove the motivating force exists in the lab. God has not been proven the lab either. The game is all I have to do is infer it from what is needed to perpetuate the current traditions so everyone gets to stay where they are. I suppose the rules of these traditions don't like the word God, so those emperor's new clothes would not be allowed as the basis of the unprovable.

Say we restricted what we can say, to only what is seen in the lab. That means we need to get rid of dark energy and matter and any other thing like strings, we need to perpetuate projection myths. How would only lab provable science change the results?

 

wellwisher

It's easy to quote scientists who's peer reviewed work has stood the test of time despite constant attack because they have been shown to be correct(having never been falsified). We have much more than "philosophical guesses" backing up what we know of the history of our Universe and how it behaves. That YOU are ignorant of much of that knowledge and how it was obtained does not mean we do not have that knowledge.

We have seen DM in intergalactic space, around galaxy clusters, the effects of it's mass on the structures it's part of and the effects it has on light traveling past it. DE is a force we have been measuring, the effects of which are visible(we can't "see" gravity either, we find it by it's visible influence also, do you deny gravity?).

Ignorance of the facts does not affect the validity of those facts, it just makes you look ignorant.

It is common knowledge, DM is just as real as air is. Air is invisible, too, we see it by it's influence on things around and in it, just like we see DM. And the whole Universe is a lab, a lab containing equipment that would swallow the Earth if it were in a lab on Earth, equipment FAR beyond the capabilities and energies of anything we could build, ever. In high energy physics all the best labwork is done through a telescope.

Yes. That's why "We talk so casually about the dark stuff like it is as common to knowledge as the air we breath", because the scientific method tells us that 25% of the mass in the Universe IS Dark Matter and the Dark Energy is measured to be about 70%, it isn't fantasy, it's fact. The matter we see is only 4% of the mass WE KNOW IS THERE.

You have never had anything to do with science, have you? Just as a hint(you don't know the meaning for the terms you are trying to use in a cogent sentence). Measurements of reality(especially in Cosmology)are RARELY done in a lab(as you are trying to use the term), and most astronomers have their computers(where almost all Cosmological activity occurs)wherever they like. Today you can be doing real science in Cosmology on the bus ride home, including observations, calculations and interaction between scientists. Much of Cosmological laboratory work occurs on supercomputers(Crays, Deep Blue, etc.)but you really don't have to travel to where that computer physically resides, it will communicate directly with your laptop, on the beach, during your summer vacay. And stop talking about what we do and do not know until you find out what that really is, it's obvious you know nothing about the current state of knowledge in any area of scientific research. One should not seek out opportunities to appear foolish, we all have a sufficiency of opportunities without looking for more.

God is irrelevant to what is true in science. "And then a miracle occurred" is not a valid postulate in any scientific inquiry. You can believe anything you like, but you cannot call that reality in a scientific sense. Science is neutral to the existence of non-evident entities and Occam's Razor tells us we shouldn't add them sans such evidence. Proof is never found in the real world, it is only attainable in math and philosophy because they are not about the real world, they are about proving postulates through pure logic, if the postulates are wrong, you can still prove them anyway(my favorite is that god is "necessary" therefore he exists). The world is a messier place than that, we can never be certain that what we think we know is the final word(The TRUTH{TM}). We were satisfied with Newton for hundreds of years, until Einstein showed that he was only close to right at non-relativistic speeds. But only the fool is certain, the wise are full of doubt.

Grumpy

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And is it just like "air" in that we can study a sample of it and break it down into it's constituent elements?
Can anyone in any way collect/retrieve and then package/compress/store this "real DM" for analysis by Scientists?
Is that, in point of "fact", how it "is just as real as air is"?

"Air" is not just "inferred" or "hypothesized" or "theorized" by what some "perceive" as "it's influence on things around and in it".
"Air" has been conclusively Proven by Science to exist.

Has "Dark Matter/Dark Energy", in fact, been conclusively Proven by Science to exist?

So...by you, Grumpy, stating... :

...does that statement only apply to Posters other than yourself?

 

Hi wellwisher.....
You seem like a layman fence sitter to me, not that there's anything wrong with that. [at least that is my perception, although I have been distracted of late with other weirdos and the general anti mainstream brigade]
I actually fit into the same category.[the layman fence sitter that is

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]
What you need to realise is that these forums are the only outlet they have, and most science forums, ban them quick smart due to the overall nonsense they sprout, and the fact that they are never able to supply any real evidence to support their erronous claims.
This forum does have outlets for them at pseudoscience and alternate theories sections, yet even there, there nonsense is never able to be supported with any evidence.


You mention about parroting. Tell me, why do you think scientists of any persuasion would conjur up fairy tales or apparitions just to fool the general populace??
That's akin to our conspiracy nutter friends telling us that 9/11 was a home job, and the Moon landings did not take place, or that a Plasma/Electric theory is responsible for the Universe as we see it today.
I have read many science books by reputable people such as Feynman, Davis, Sagan, Hawking, Thorne, Greene, Kaku De-Grasse Tyson and a few others.
Not all the material is easy for me to understand and digest. So I ask questions.
Two particular scientists from another forum have been quite helpful over the years in helping me in that regard....one a SR/GR expert, the other a professional Astronomer.

You raise the issue of DM and DE as philosophical guesses......Why do you think that?
Why are they not educated guesses, by educated experts in their field?
Einstein proposed a CC component in his equations to adhere to the belief of the day that the Universe was static. By static we mean not expanding and/or contracting. Although quickly proclaiming it as the greatest blunder of his life, when Hubble discovered that the Universe was expanding.
Guess what? That same CC is now considered again at a different value, due to further observations and data.

You speak of DM as a guess....Yep, an education speculative guess when first proposed to explain the anomalous motions of galaxies.
Guess what? Since that time, convincing evidence has been found to show it certainly is much more then just a guess and does actually exist.
Have you ever checked out the Bullet Cluster evidence?


here.......
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http://home.slac.stanford.edu/pressreleases/2006/20060821.htm
" Dark matter, the elusive stuff that makes up a quarter of the universe, has been seen in isolation for the first time. Marusa Bradac of the Kavli Institute for Particle Astrophysics and Cosmology (KIPAC), located at the Department of Energy’s Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC), and her colleagues made the landmark observations by studying a galaxy cluster 3 billion light years away.

"We had predicted the existence of dark matter for decades, but now we've seen it in action," said Bradac. "This is groundbreaking."
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You raise the concept of DE as a guess....Sure!, but an educated guess to support the observed accelerated motion of expansion.
Do you have a better alternative guess?
Do you have access to COBE, WMAP, Spitzer, Planck or any of the other probes out there now gathering information?

You raise the confirmation of these entities in the Lab.
Do you see gravity?No, but just like DM and DE you do see its effects.

String theory and/or any of its derivitives, has not been experimentally or observationally supported. But it does give a possible answer to that still unknown region we call the quantum/Planck level.
At this stage they are attempts at a QGT....One may well prove to be correct yet.

Remember wellwisher as I said earlier, these forums are the only outlet our anti mainstream brigade, conspiracy nutters and would be if they could be arm chair scientists have.
They are apt to cling for dear life onto their pet theories despite the lack of any evidence to support them.
Yet they quickly slip into mainstream science territory if and when it appears to support their invalidated ideas.
The scientific methodology is there to weed out these fringe groups, and one of the edicts of that methodology is that their ideas/theories/hypothesis should falsify the incumbent model, and be able to predict outcomes and situations.


I'm the first bloke that recognises the fact [and I'm sure the other mainstream adherents here do] that there is a non zero chance that the next great leap foward in scientific knowledge may come out of left field.
But the chances are far far greater, that the next giant leap forward, will come from the established mainstream scientists, with their access to the myriads of telescopes around the world, the particle accelerators, the space probes and other advanced technological equipment.


The object of this thread was an attempt in the cosmology section, to push a discarded peer reviewed theory about a Plasma/Electric driven Universe, over one obviously dominated by gravity.

That same poster has had his nonsense confined to alternative/pseudoscience before, and he will use any insidious means, [including double handles] to get it highlighted again and again.

 

So then at the begining of the BB was a hot Plasma

Which were made of protons and electrons

 

Yep, I've said that many times. So????? *shrug*

 

So then you accept that the Plasma theory is the basis on which the BB is based

 

Ummm, why would anyone in their right mind conclude that?

 

You did in your post #96

 

And why would the mainstream cosmologists not accept that if it were true?
You need to be less discriminatory in what you read and hear, and not so attuned to your anti mainstream masters.

The BB was an evolution in expansion of space and time from a hot dense state, fabricated by the process of gravity, to what we see today.
Now that is as near a fact as one would want to get!

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