The Bible. Myth or Reality?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, May 21, 2015.

  1. Spellbound Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Are you a penis man? Or, are you a magical faery?
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    The Bible was written during the Bronze age when not much science was going on around the world. The stories within it are from hand me down types of stories that were used to keep people thinking along the same ways to insure they could be all kept alike. The story of Jesus, for example, was written over 100 years after he was to have died so that whole thing is just what someone told someone else 3 or 4 times before it was transcribed. Still believing in a story written so many centuries ago is , to me, a waste of time for science has taught us much about who we are and how we and this planet came to be.

    To bad we must live in the past when the here and now seems to be very much contrary to the way things once were done.
     
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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Another way to look at this is when Christ died on the cross, there was a concerted effort to purge the Roman Empire of Christianity. It was the religion of slaves and was causing problems in terms of the ruling class. Picture the Roman goon squads, supported by the atheists of that day, helping to track and gather those pesky Christians for death. The only way to keep their traditions alive, under holocaust conditions, was to memorize and teach. Few people had education for reading and writing, so information was passed word of mouth. This was the religion of slaves, not land owners.

    By the 4th century AD, Constantine, who was the emperor of Rome makes Christianity the official religion. This was due to the courage of the Christian in battle as subjects of Rome. They were Rome's best armies, fearless in battle; no fear of death due to Jesus. The resentment of the modern atheists appears to begin about this time, because the atheist predators became the prey; payback time.

    Why didn't Rome choose atheist liberalism? It had, but this was the source of the internal decline of Rome; perversion and corruption. Roman needed men and women not unnatural human hybrids. Rome survives and gets another chance through the church. The Holy Roman Empire spawns a wide range of cultures; baby bells, who would have future world wide impact and influence; England, France, Spain, Germany, Russia, Italy, Portugal, etc. The proof of the strength of Christianity was in its ability to have its hands on the pulse of history.
     
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  7. river

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    Oh the christian armies were so brave were they?

    Yet these christians destroyed ALEXANDRIA, the loss of knowledge is criminal; the death of Spohia was savage.
     
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Neither Myth nor Reality - It is a story told from one generation to the next, many times. Even if the words were not changed (as they were) the meaning of the same word changed. In Christ's era, "virgin" just meant "young girl." Many years later it became understood as a miracle of fatherless birth, especially by followers of the Catholic faith, which almost deifies Mary.
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The "Flood" is obviously not reality. Even when global warming reaches its peak later in this millennium and all of the earth's glaciers and polar caps melt, there will still not be enough water to cover all of the mountains. The peaks of the Himalayas are roughly about the same distance ABOVE sea level as the deepest parts of the oceans are BELOW sea level--whereas peak sea level will be no more than 900ft (300m) higher than today.

    Read up about Thera, the island now known as Santorini, which was flooded by an earthquake-generated tsunami around 1600BCE. It destroyed Minoan civilization and reset the entire history of the Mediterranean region. Many (perhaps most) historians assume that this was the real-life event that grew into the legend of the world-wide flood. In fact it had only minor physical impact outside of the Aegean Sea, and only political, military and commercial impact elsewhere--such as Greece, Egypt and Mesopotamia.

    And how about Jonah and the whale? Even if being bitten by those gigantic teeth, and then swallowed, didn't kill the man more-or-less instantly, how would he breathe inside the whale's stomach? There's no source of fresh air!
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    While the notion of a global flood is not rooted in reality, the biblical flood story may indeed be rooted in history. I think most biblical scholars now think the biblical flood story is rooted in earlier flood stories which may have been based on historical events.

    I think it is generally accepted among scholars the Old Testament borrows much from other religions.

    Well, not all whales have teeth and we the Bible doesn't say what kind of whale swallowed Jonah. And the Bible didn't say Jonah was bitten only that he was swallowed. But the story is certainly a whopper. It's the biggest fish story I have every heard. It's difficult to see how the Jonah story could be rooted in reality.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, but not surprisingly, you are wrong on many counts. Christians were persecuted sporadically under Roman rule and for various reasons. But Christians were not just slaves, some were wealthy and some were very powerful folks. That brings us to your next error.

    Constantine didn't make Christianity Rome's official religion. Constantine certainly organized the early Christian Church and funded the early Christian Church. But he didn't make it the official Roman religion. He legalized it.

    "Anti-Christian policies directed at the early church had occurred sporadically and in localised areas since its beginning. The first persecution of Christians organised by the Roman government took place under the emperor Nero in 64 AD after the Great Fire of Rome;with the passage in 313 AD of the Edict of Milan, anti-Christian policies directed against Christians by the Roman government ceased.[1] The total number of Christians who lost their lives because of these persecutions is unknown, although early church historianEusebius, whose works are the only source for many of these events, speaks of "great multitudes" having perished, he is thought by many scholars today to have exaggerated their numbers.[1][2]:217–233 Although provincial governors in the Roman Empire had a great deal of personal discretion and power to do what they felt was needed in their jurisdiction, and there were local and sporadic incidents of persecution and mob violence against Christians, for most of the first three hundred years of Christian history Christians were able to live in peace, practice professions, and rise to positions of responsibility. Only for approximately ten out of the first three hundred years of the church's history were Christians executed due to orders from a Roman emperor.[2]:129" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_policies_in_the_Roman_Empire

    Point in fact, Constantine was a high priest of the Sol Invictus cult and was so until the day he died. Constantine was a warrior prince who inherited a fractured Roman empire. He used military force and the Christian religion to unify the empire. In part, because Christianity was quite popular especially among the Roman intelligentsia. Constantine's mother was a Christian. However, Christians were often fighting among themselves and that could destabilize the empire. There were many competing Christian factions at the time. Constantine unified those factions and in doing so strengthened his hold over the empire.

    What is known about Constantine is that he was a very ambitious man. He wanted power and he was a brutal emperor. He murdered his own family - not a very Christian act. Constantine had a profound impact on Christianity of that there is little doubt. He in effect injected many of his pagan traditions into the Christian religion (e.g. Christmas, the Sunday Sabbath, etc.).
     
  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Floods are a dime a dozen. I myself have experienced floods where the water stretched as far as the eye could see, even if it was only a few inches deep. Saying that the Flood story was "based on historical events" is like saying that Jesus was "based on a carpenter." So what?
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, while floods are relatively common, the Bible references a great flood, which isn't so common.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    But a "great flood" is described the same as a small local flood. The Bible writers had no vantage point (such as airborne) to distinguish a small flood from a big one. The Biblical Flood describes floods but it doesn't necessarily have to be based on an unusual flood.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    So because they didn't have airplanes the ancients couldn't distinguish a regular flood from a great flood, is that you argument? I'm pretty sure they had hills and mountains way back then, and I'm pretty sure the ancients could distinguish normal flooding from something exceptional.

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    The Bible is pretty clear that the great flood was an unusual event. Though, I am sure the great flood story has been embellished over time as it passed from individual to individual and culture to culture.
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The Bible is also clear that the Exodus was an unusual event - and that never happened either. Anybody can say that this particular flood covered all of the hills whether they ever saw it or not.
     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, maybe it did and maybe it didn't. I think the jury is still out on that one. Some of what is contained within the Old Testament is based on fact, some of it in all likelihood isn't. Some of it is likely borrowed from other cultures and other religions.

    But I don't think any of that devalues its importance or relevance as a spiritual text. I think much can be learned from the Bible, but it must be read and understood in context not only with the time period or current religious theology but with the religions which preceded and followed, which unfortunately isn't the norm. The Bible can tell us a lot about ourselves and where we have been as a species.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I'm just saying there's no reason to think the Flood was based on anything extraordinary. We know the account was exaggerated. It's just a question of whether it was exaggerated a little or a lot.
     
  19. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    By any chance have you chance heard the description on the Gilgamesh tablets . They mention about a flood and one man and his family survived .
    The mentioning if Himalayas mountain is unfair or as using a sludge hammer to kill an ant . First people world is were they live in this case I believe the Sumerian lived in current Iraq . We don't know if at that point in time there was not the straight of Hormuz and the Persian Golf could be just a large lake . If you imagine there was a global warming 8000 years ago and the ice sheet on the Ararat mountain was melting
    Here you have a scenario of flooding the whole area and that was their world . Remember before Columbus wi did not know about American continent , and if the Vikings were in Newfoundland they did not write down .
     
  20. ajanta Registered Senior Member

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    we may know about the debate between Bibel and Quran. I think we need time machine to go past to know about the MYTH or REALITY.
     
  21. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Allegory.
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Okay. Nonetheless, there is not enough water on earth--in its oceans, its glaciers or its polar caps--to raise sea level to the height of Mount Ararat--much less the Himalayas or the Andes.

    During previous global warming cycles (which occur at irregular intervals usually measured in tens of thousands of years), sea level never even rose by half a kilometer.

    As I noted, most scholars of the Mediterranean region are fairly certain that the flood legend, which was incorporated into the Jewish/Christian Bible as well as the mythologies of other nearby peoples, is an exaggeration of the earthquake-generated tsunami that virtually destroyed the island of Thera (now renamed Santorini). Geologists tell us that this may have been the strongest earthquake to hit Earth in the past several thousand years. The Minoan navy fleet was stationed there, so its destruction resulted in the rapid decline of Minoan civilization. This allowed other peoples--notably the Greeks--to become the cultural and political leaders of the region.

    News of an event like this would have obviously been spread widely throughout the Aegean region and beyond. And as stories are spread, they always become bigger and more important. So at the fringes of Mesopotamian/European/North African civilization, where the event was not felt and did absolutely no physical damage, the flood was reported to be so tremendous that it covered the highest mountains. Of course the story could not have reached these proportions until all the eye-witnesses were dead.

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  23. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    You are shaking the faith - next you'll be claiming the sun did not stand still in the heavens for 4 hours so some battle could be won!
     

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