Of course, Satan, the serpent, is going to get trod on a lot. And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. (Romans 16:20, KJV).
and yes we do know that everyone will be able to witness it and confirm it. Christ. You guys are nuts.
alright tony1, (loosens collar, rolls up sleeves) lets go. Bring it on! No dirty fighting, no knives or biting etc. I wanna fair fight! Lez get it on! Anyway, as I was saying I'd like to think of myself as being on another level of psychological thought other than tony1, you base all of your posts on the bible while I look at the world. Small, big, small, big.
Yawn! Now that this has apparently degenerated into a slanging match between the "righteous" christian and the "inquistive" non believer I think it is time to bid adieu to you biblical boxers and return to a thread that still retains a modicum of civility! Now where's that unsubscribe button..............Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
So, tony1, r u ready to act like an adult now? I am, even though I'm not. The religion forum isn't really my turf but I'm ready to debate like I'm not three years old. Are you?
There's a difference between discriminating and just thinking what someone does isn't right. Personally I think shoving one's dick up another man's ass is repulsive and I will never say it's okay. AIDS isn't just tranmitted. It's created. If you're gay and don't use protection, eventually blood will mix (and the intestines are filled with the most vile stuff imaginable) and you've got HIV. The same thing can happen with heterosexual sex but it's far less likely as the skin is far less likely to tear. If you want to be gay fine. I'll accept you as a human being but I don't have to accept what you do. Ben
Ben, It's pretty clear what you think of homosexual men. There's only one thing left to ask: what about homosexual women? On a slightly different note: don't you get it that homosexuality is not so much about how you have sex, but which sex you find attractive to begin with? Now it's true that homosexual men don't have that many options (though of course anal sex is not the only way for men to get off...) Heterosexual couples perform anal sex too; but somehow that passes under your radar. And actually, sex is quite disgusting whether it's hetero- or homo-. Ask any child who just learned about sex -- their main reaction would probably be along the lines of "yuck". One final thought: you are of course right about protection. It has never hurt anyone, regardless of sexuality. Oh, one last afterthought. What comes out of your anus is actually less toxic than what comes out of your urethra. One little bio-fact, just for kicks...
Kids think kissing is disgusting. "Heterosexual couples perform anal sex too" I'm aware of that. 9-10% of heterosexual couples get AIDS, too. It's still gross. "Lesbians" It's wrong though far less repulsive. From a natural standpoint homosexuality makes no sense. You're not doing that something that will pass on your genes to another generation. e.g. Survival. You're just "getting off" which really isn't sex. Ben
Ben, As if to imply that HIV is transmitted more effectively through anal sex than through vaginal sex. Actually, I'm not aware of any study that in fact showed this. I find it more likely the reason AIDS spread so quickly through the homosexual community, is because that community was way too promiscuous (which doesn't bode well in terms of any other STDs either.) When you don't have social institutions like marriage to force you into a monogamous lifestyle, it's that much more difficult not to sleep around. Isn't it though? Think about it: you're actually eating each other's saliva. If there was a deadly virus transmissible through saliva, then kissing would be deadly too (all it probably takes are a few unfortunate mutations in HIV.) But you are not repulsed by homosexuality because it's unnatural. You are repulsed way before you can perform any sort of rational analysis to justify your repulsion. It's a gut reaction, so let's tell it like it is. What you don't seem to realize, is that your repulsion is diametrically shared by homosexuals -- heterosexual sex is equally repulsive to many of them. It's not a matter of rationality or what nature "intended"; it's simply a matter of how your individual emotional apparatus reacts to a particular situation. Of course you are correct. Homosexuality is not advantageous for survival (hey... you wouldn't be arguing from an evolutionist standpoint, would you now? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) It still remains to be demonstrated unequivocally one way or another whether sexuality is actually genetic or cultural, or a mixture of the two. If there is a genetic component to sexuality, then it's quite likely this genetic aspect of it is not going to grow in representation among the populaiton with time (unless homosexuals play a beneficial role among the general population that actually helps their close genetic relatives to survive or reproduce.) Oh, baloney. Sex <b>is</b> all about getting off. Animals don't do it because they realise the necessity of procreation; they do it because: 1) it feels good 2) they have a strong urge to do it (which is in part connected to 1) Remember to bring up the procreational relevance the next time you kiss someone.
9-10% of AIDS cases are in heterosexual relationships is what I should have said. Not 9-10% of heterosexuals have AIDS. And the first cause is certainly not something anyone is looking into apparently. We all know how it can spread (fluid swapping with straight injection to the blood stream requiring the least amount of fluid) but no one is tracing it back to the beginning. Can it be created by certain types of behavior (toxins from organs, human waste or whatever mixed with blood) or is it naturally occuring? What is the result of mixing two types of blood? Could it be that simple? What happens when you give someone blood that isn't compatible with their blood type? Considering AIDS cannot exist outside of certain types of blood (it dies in mosquitoes for instance so you can't be infected by a mosquito), I would say it's a purly created disease caused by a certain type of behavior which scientists apparently aren't eager to trace. After all, who are we to condemn a behavior? Ben
Ben, Interesting theory for ex nihilo virus formation. Almost reminds one of the medieval notion of vermin germinating from dirt. But in case you haven't heard, HIV is a close relative (and a likely descendant) of SIV (which infects monkeys.) IMHO, it's possible the first transmission to humans occured through a wild animal bite or through consumption of badly cooked monkey meat (in combination with mouth sores.) HIV didn't start with American homosexuals. It actually spread from its origin somewhere in Africa (or at least that's as far back as it's been traced so far.) Some even suggest that HIV lied dormant amid African tribes for a long time until a recent mutation made it more virulent. But I find your eagerness to link HIV with behavior disturbingly selective. Why aren't you questioning along similar lines the origins of the flu, common cold, smallpox, ebola? Why such behavioral fixation with HIV? After all, it's only a retrovirus. Lastly, if you wish to condemn a behavior, that's your protected right. Just don't try to build up some floating castle of a scientific case as justification for your impulse (it's just sad, that's all.)
Here you go: from http://www.vetref.net/articles/_articles/vax.html "The production of antibodies causes stress to the puppy. In most cases, the puppy can cope with this stress without any complications. However, it is important to not introduce too many vaccines at once, since this will demand the puppy to produce a wide variety and quantity of antibodies. If the stress created by the production of so many antibodies becomes too high, a chemical called cortisol which is produced in the body will be released to help cope with the high levels of stress. Unfortunately, one of the effects cortisol has is to temporarily lower the puppy's immune response, and it may actually become sick." http://www.parentsplace.com/pregnancy/tests/qa/0,3105,639,00.html "Mismatched blood transfusions and previous miscarriage or trauma in the pregnancy are other risks for building up antibodies. " Apparently somehow homosexual sex is more likely to lead to the problem of too many antibodies caused by mismatched blood (probably because tearing the skin in more likely with anal sex) which leads to a lower immune response. Why it goes so far as to permanently lower the immune system, I don't know. Ben
The flu isn't more likely to occure in one person over another based on sexual preferance which is obviously the case of AIDS when 70% of cases are a result of MSM and only 10% are from MSW It occures with unclean needles more often than MSW which leads me to believe that it is the mixing of blood types that causes it. I havn't been really sick in 6 years because I lived in the upper midwest for most of my life and have a wicked immune system. I had a minor cough for the first time in 6 years about a month ago. It was gone within a week. Ben
In conclusion (unless you can prove otherwise) it's not a specific sexual behavior, it's the mixing of blood types that causes AIDS. How much blood needs to be mixed I dunno. Probably a good amount. I'll do some more research on cortisol to see when it becomes deadly. It could be the toxins (like drugs) that cause the blood to be weak in the first place and the build up of cortisol in an already weak system could be the death blow. Oh and I suppose I should apologize for suggesting that some behaviors naturally lead to bad things. Like jumping off of cliffs. Ben
one more: http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-059a.shtml "There are many studies which show the correlation of elevated cortisol levels present in people with HIV (J. Acq. Immune Defic. Syndr., 1992). Excessive cortisol production from the adrenal glands is immunosuppressive and usually closely correlates with autoimmune dysfunction. When cortisol levels remain high, the immune system persists in a Th-2 type response of the CD4+ helper cells. Therefore, it is important to suppress excessive cortisol production. Testing cortisol levels in the blood is difficult because adrenal surges of cortisol can occur erratically throughout the day. Possibly for this reason, mainstream doctors have ignored this valuable tool in the treatment of HIV. However, a resting morning level of cortisol, taken before 9 a.m., may be quite significant in determining overall cortisol status in the body. The European procaine drug KH3 is believed to be the best way to block the effects of elevated cortisol levels in people with HIV and also in cancer patients. One or two tablets of KH3 can be taken first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, repeating the same dose an hour before dinner. Also, melatonin replacement therapy, vitamin C, and aspirin can lower elevated cortisol. " Imagine that. I wonder if scientists have tried to figure out why the cortisol level was so high in the first place? Ben
Back to school... Ben, I see some education is in order. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Stress-related immune system suppression is well-known. It has nothing at all in common with HIV. Antibodies of any sort have nothing in common with HIV. No, that's not at all how AIDS occurs. AIDS occurs not because of high stress or excess antibody buildup, but because HIV directly attacks and destroys mainly T lymphocytes. Here, learn something: http://www.merck.com/disease/hiv/auditorium/effect.html As a result, in fact the immune system becomes incapable of producing new antibodies for new antigens, and "forgets" much of what it "knew" about the antigens it encountered in the past. After that, you get literally eaten alive. When incompatible blood is introduced, it simply gets attacked by the immune system as if it was any other type of antigen -- all the while itself attacking its new host's native blood supply (because it carries its own immune cells) for the same reasons. It's called "acute rejection". Again, nothing to do with retroviruses. Actually, not having been sick for such a long time should be a cause for concern. Your immune system weakens over time if it doesn't continuously encounter new antigens. That means when you get a particularly nasty infection, your weakened system will add extra punch to it. And since you mentioned time spans, you've put me on to another thought altogether. Since you believe that HIV is caused by homosexual intercourse, then you must believe that homosexual intercourse only arose in the second half of the twentieth century -- since until then, for all recorded time, there hasn't been anything remotely resembling HIV killing people en masse and spreading exponentially (and remember, until very recently nobody used even the most basic forms of protection.) See, a logical conclusion derived from your hypothesis is actually false considering observable data. That pretty much disproves your theory right there, without even mentioning that the mechanisms of AIDS are already well-known (if not to you personally).
That is consistent with the fact that the flu is not a sexually transmitted disease, while HIV is (duh!) -- combined with the fact that gays are (or at least used to be) much more promiscuous than heterosexuals (which means the disease spreads faster.) None of this implies that transmission is more likely during anal sex than during vaginal sex. Oh and by the way, there's not any "skin tearing" during either anal or vaginal sex. STDs get transmitted not through a direct blood exchange, but through fluids which come into contact with thin membranes (such as present in the penis), diffuse through the membranes and enter a circulatory system (for example, the lymphatic system) which subsequently spreads them throughout the body. Here's an answer from your own quote: Do you actually comprehend what you quote? Cortisol is a general stress hormone. P.S. You wouldn't be from South Africa, by any chance? They're reaching ever more astonishing levels of denial down there...
