The Bible in 50 words

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by wesmorrisbabe, May 13, 2003.

  1. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    3,833
    As a regular Bible-toting Christian and rafter-eyed sinner, I would like to throw my penny in the pond.

    I don't think one Christian will tell you it's OK to sin. But for too long people have been preaching fire and brimstone to Christians and non-Christians alike. There is a whole movement within Christianity for this to stop, since it was done mostly out of ignorance and fear.

    The whole idea of "gospel" is that Jesus came for the sinner and not the righteous. He said so himself. Through Him God introduced mercy into the justice system. The idea is that eventually everybody will be judged under the law of love, but there is nothing to fear except God himself - the judge who knows the heart.

    Nobody blames space for being a vacuum. If you go space-walking without a suit and your eyeballs get sucked out, it's not unfair - it's how it is. It's an unchanging physical law. Why is the idea of an unchanging metaphysical law so objectionable?

    But nobody thinks of Justice as a reality. Humanity has gotten so used to living with injustice that the idea seems prepostorous - even while we're trying to perfect it for our own sake. We have even had to extend the concept further, to include the ecosystem and increasingly less-evident details, in order to protect our very existence. Since time began, justice has been the grease of society. Why was this necessary at all? Because of a lack of love and everything that goes with it - respect, honesty, unselfishness, etc.

    Nobody has to go to hell. But since we live in a nicely protected atmosphere (at least until the ozone layer is depleted, or the forests destroyed), we can't see why anybody would want to wear space-suits. Or build an ark. Or believe in God.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2003
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  3. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Lol Edgar have you even read the bible??
     
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  5. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    How about the "Great" Martin Luther?

    "Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness" - Martin Luther

    "No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day." - Martin Luther

    "Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to." - Martin Luther

    Well, so much for runaway Pauline doctrine.

    Because it is supposedly being set upon us by an intelligent being who loves us. No one claims that the unchanging, unreasoning, conditions of natural law are looking out for our best interest or that they even can. "Behavior" that is acceptable for a rock, is not acceptable for a person or even a dog... much less a 'God'.

    ~Raithere
     
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  7. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    The Law is unchanging, and so is God's righteousness... but that does not make His decisions or actions unchanging, and that is not what I implied.

    It is obvious what Luther is saying: that since we are all sinners, and it is in our nature to sin, we should not expect to do otherwise - and we don't have to fear sin because it has been conquered and [the devil] has no control over us.

    You are of course aware that this is not all of what Luther said, and that he was contesting the Catholic practice of indulgences - paying off your sins so as to be free of them. As if we could buy rigteousness or achieve holiness with enough piety.

    I found it interesting that you should condemn the man for admitting that we are all human. I thought you would welcome such an approach. Does that mean you are worried that there is still hope for you? But I forget, you don't belive in the guilt of sin.
     
  8. MarcAC Curious Registered Senior Member

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    The Strange Thing About Atheists

    It's strange how one will argue that consciousness arose from pure and simple brain function - which was not always conscious. But it is sooo difficult for them to see that God's creation was primarily good and evolved into something evil - due to free will. Then Zero Mass statements like those above are made.
     
  9. MarcAC Curious Registered Senior Member

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    1,042
    Re: God the Monster

    For Christians, God is the Creator, Sustainer and Saviour. Those are the important bits. Anyone who doesn't believe Jesus Christ is God's Son is not Christian.
    The infidel should react to the Christian 'version' of God when addressing a Christian. Then the Christian won't indicate this. Unless of, as is usually the case, he is not sure of Who the Christian God is.
    There will be nuances but the fundamental idea of what the Christian holds to be true of God will be the same - unless of course the person is not truly a Christian.
    Not the God of Christians (God of all).
    Of course not. It is, however, the responsibility of the infidel to read the Bible - God's Word - and discern for himself who God is. It is also his responsibility to avoid interpretations of God from lying bastards who don't even believe in Him.
    The infidel needs to do the important thing. Accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour, and do his best to live his life as he thinks God would want him to live it. He'll know, he has a conscience - he has a bible - no matter what version - it basically carries one message - Accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour - Trust in God - not in man.
    God does have a plan, and it includes the choices made by man - thus it will obviously include the "fall of Man at Eden" - because man choose to go his own way - and not God's way.
    The most important bits aren't difficult. Accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. What Christian Bible excludes that? None.
    A criminal will see imprisonment as a negative implication for his wanton act. The victim of that act won't.
    Yes.
    No. Man works with God through the choices he makes in life. In other words, God wants man to choose to have faith and be redeemed, but then God can't choose for man - it is a direct consequence of man's free will.
    It will always seem strange if it is not properly understood. The infidel should give himself a sarcastic "Wow, smart decision, genius."
    If the infidel looks to other infidels who will make such an opinionated statement, and have no corroboration, and accept it just like that - they'll never see a positive manifestation - because they won't look for themselves.
    In other words you can't please everybody. Good point.
    For any true Christian, chain letters are a stupid superstition.
    It should be noted that this is stated in the bible so those Christians shouldn't let it come to the point of your reminding them of this - it happens though.
    That's why Jesus (God) suffered all the eternity that we all would spend in hell for us. That's his gift to us - but some infidels are just too proud to accept it I guess. Then they'll kick themselves when the offer expires "Wow, smart decision. genius."
    Which demonstrates the infidels lack of understanding.
    There is no threat there. The threat is from the infidels themselves.
    Sure, 'faithful' ones like that you have to worry about. If those are the 'faithful you look to, no wonder you see no positive manifestation. Has that 'faithful one ever been quoted in reciting a biblical text? "In God We Trust", and "God Bless America" are not in my Bible. God is on everyones side, he wants to recieve you - but you don't want to recieve him. Is prayer to God allowed in American schools? Or did the infidels ensure that it was 'stopped' as if one cannot pray privately? Idiots they are.
    Christianity is the road to forgiveness. God knows humans aren't perfect, through their free will. All Christians are humans but not all humans are Christians. The infidel, through his lack of understanding will look at Christianity as a license to sin but it just demonstrates his ignorance.
     
  10. Raithere plagued by infinities Valued Senior Member

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    3,348
    Luther is simply espousing Pauline doctrine; that faith alone is enough to save man despite what Jesus taught. Luther takes it to an extreme though, basically stating that sin is irrelevant in the face of faith.

    Of course, would you like me to quote what he said about the Jews?
    How about these instead:

    "As to the common people, ... one has to be hard with them and see that they do their work and that under the threat of the sword and the law they comply with the observance of piety, just as you chain up wild beasts." - Martin Luther

    "Idiots, the lame, the blind, the dumb, are men in whom the devils have established themselves: and all the physicians who heal these infirmities, as though they proceeded from natural causes, are ignorant blockheads...." Martin Luther

    And, of course, most telling of all:

    "Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther

    Sorry, I don't mean to go off on a diatribe against ML but I sincerely think this man is responsible for an incredible amount of evil.

    Indeed, as if we would need the intercession of any human agent to commune with an omnipresent God.. This is the reason I would not subscribe to any religion even when I did believe in God. What person or book can translate even a fragment of the mind of God? The concept is preposterous... pure hubris.

    When did I condemn the man? Those were his words, he condemns himself. And he goes a bit beyond simply stating that we are all sinful humans.

    I don't believe in sin against God because God is either non-existent, impersonal, good, or not worth worshipping.

    ~Raithere
     
  11. Dystran Hart Agnostic Registered Senior Member

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    chinese whispers, re-write, ammendment, consolidate, make good, adapt, echo, update, twist and turn, enhance, revise, alter, imitation, reproduction, fun, interesting,accomodate, conform, convert, shape, prepare, fantasy, fabricate, reverie, interest .......
    50 words, why conform ...

    How pessimistic hehe
     
  12. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    3,112
    before god created light, darkness was already there and so was water. why is it understood that darkness is to be asociated w evil? (this is a q from someone who is planning to convert, so Please answer!)
     
  13. Jade Squirrel Impassioned Atheist Registered Senior Member

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    394
    I think it's because Xians think in black and white terms. Light is good because God created it. Therefore darkness must be evil because it's the opposite of light. You sure you really want to convert?
     
  14. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    3,112
    wait so why is water not evil? and so god keeps evil around to test and play with us, eh? or is it that he can destroy only the things he created?
    im not sure i want to convert. if you check my age in my profile you'll understand; im searching, and i really want to know what im doing before i end up with something. im not really through the bible yet, and im sure ill torture the hell out of this site before im done...
     
  15. Jade Squirrel Impassioned Atheist Registered Senior Member

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    What are you searching for?
     
  16. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    3,112
    true self. in other aspects of life too. but that's off subject.
     
  17. doom Registered Senior Member

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    513
    The bible in three words:

    Load of shit.
     
  18. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    She's married to me.
     
  19. MarcAC Curious Registered Senior Member

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    1,042
    First you have to state where in the creation story was darkness associated with evil. Or did an atheist tell you? Don't believe them!!! They just want to lead you away from Christ!!!!
    That's a very good question. Maybe because darkenss isn't evil? It is more used as a metaphorical reference.
    Evil is here but it's faaar from a game. God tests us to strengthen us as a human race.
    But he created all things, sooooo, he can destroy everything. No?
    Read you bible, make a few Christian friends - ask Jesus to enter your heart - time waits for no man. Be careful of this site - these people - not excluding myself - will feed you a whole lot of bullcrap which makes no sense - so always keep your bible close and make sure they can back up their claims - just like you will back up the claim of darkness referred to as evil in the creation story.
     
  20. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Trolling for cult members eh?
    Oh man, please consider how you appear to someone who isn't so emotionally needy as to join a cult. Sick man. "make sure you have your cult handbook real close in case you forget how to refute someone attempting to make a logical argument. You need a book to do your thinking for you, you do. Don't think! You might realize we are a cult (albeit a HUGE one)." Ack.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2003
  21. MacM Registered Senior Member

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    10,104
    GOD?

    Jade Squirrel
    130 posts

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by edgar
    i find it funny how people tend to blame god for everything.....it is SATAN who generates this suffering. god rewards us if we follow his commandments and stuff like that.if god was such a monster why wouldnt he kill us all? why would he offer us mercy to us sinners?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Actually, edgar, most people you are referring to (excluding deists) who describe the Judeo-Xian version of God as a monster don't actually believe that God exists and are just humouring you Xians for a moment to show that your God isn't as benevolent as you make him out to be, according to your own inerrant book of answers. Therefore, they will also not believe that Satan exists and is generating suffering in the world.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Jade Squirrel,

    I do take exception to your post. I don't think you meant what you said. I believe you are just mistaken about deist.

    I am a deist. So let me tell you simply what the belief is all about.

    1 - We are here, we exist, therefore there was an enception, a point of creation.

    2 - We believe in a non-spiritual philosphy and seek truth via science and logic.

    3 - We do not believe in God perse as generally defined by other religions but find no man has knowledge to state factually that there is no God.

    4 - God most likely already has another name - Nature.
     
  22. Jade Squirrel Impassioned Atheist Registered Senior Member

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    Re: GOD?

    I meant exactly what I said. Deism is belief in God through reason, as opposed to revelation. Since deists do not follow the Xian concept of God, many refer to the alleged doings of that version of God as monstrous. Since I was pointing out that most people who described God in this way don't actually believe that he exists, I naturally had to note deism as the exception.

    I am not misinformed about deism. I have conversed at length with many deists in the past (in fact, I was one during my transition from Xianity to pantheism to atheism).

    That's called pantheism, not deism.
     
  23. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    If Heaven is paradise, and God knows that suffering, sin and Satan's will runs rampant on Earth, wouldn't killing us and calling us home actually be the merciful thing to do?

    How is leaving us here to suffer in this pit of suffering and despair the merciful thing to do?
     

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