The Battle of Midway was the Turning Point of WWII

Discussion in 'History' started by Buffalo Roam, May 9, 2010.

  1. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    As Im sure Shogun would agree with me, if the Musashi or the Yamato fought the Bismarck they would beat the living cr*p out of that battleship. Hell, any of the US Iowa class battleships could have torn the Bismark apart.

    The Bismark had 8 15 inch main guns.
    The Iowa class had 9 16 inch main guns
    The Yamato had 9 18.1 inch main guns (largest ever put on a battleship)

    The Bismark had a displacement of 50,900 tons loaded
    The Iowa class had a displacement of 58,000 tons fully loaded
    The Yamato had a displacement of 73,000 tons fully loaded
     
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  3. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    He doesn't know the first thing about Japan...

    Hey, I am in grade 8....I am 13.....

    Well I do know the history classes doesn't teach us shit.
     
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  5. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    I am 17 and I know more than this pompous fool does.

    I think we can both agree on the fact that you know a lot more than your history book or teacher just told you. But apparently this guy took it at face value and never did any research of his own. I wrote a 22 page essay on the Pacific war and I know enough about it to have easily done a 50 page essay.
     
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  7. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    No need for Yamato to fight Bismark, they carriers can take care of that. Yamato is more of a flagship.
     
  8. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    Again I have no idea what the first point is about. The U.S.A is trying to please Britain and Europe by what means exactly?

    I can't help but resort to a few ad homenims here but you clearly deserve it, if you're of the sensitive persuasion get your tissues out . Fed's original argument: "Flake, if it weren't for the fact that Britain was there in Europe we would not have cared 10% as much about what Hitler did as we do right now." and my response was: "I can’t quite extrapolate any meaning to your second point. Who is this we? You’re saying that the only reason the war in Europe is of any concern is because of British interests? So the Holocaust irrelevant? Poland irrelevant? France irrelevant? Greece irrelevant?" - So what thought process went through your shrivelled little brain to arrive at the conclusion that I was making a point about the size of territory involved? Clearly the people who suffered in Greece, France and Poland are worth caring about as well as the battles that were fought in those respective countries were significant and noteworthy, to argue that Britain was the only country in Europe worth caring about is highly insensitive. What Britain went through in wartime was a stroll in the countryside to what the people of occupied Europe were subjected to and to argue otherwise is fucking lunatic and you're a moron for not identifying this.

    The Japanese forces were no more brutal than that of the Nazis.

    How are the swamps more dangerous than barren frozen tundras?
     
  9. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    I wondered what inspired you to focus on the pacific opposed to the other theatres. Hmmm. Lets think about this, oh right yeah you're a chauvinist with impeded judgement due to your undying attachment to national sentiment.
     
  10. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Okay maybe I should have been more specific, America would not have cared nearly as much as they had.

    Flake, how dare you call him a fucking lunatic and moron. You do not know the first thing abou it.
     
  11. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    Japan is an island nation. Germany is part of central continental Europe with limited coastline. Go figure.
     
  12. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    sooooo....... what exactly?

    Are island somehow worse than mainland countries? That's a tad stereotypical, but than again coming from you the lord of preconceptions Im not surprised.
     
  13. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    First point was about your hypocrisy. Go figure it out yourself for the second one.

    I don't understand your logic at all. Read....

    I was debating that point. In terms of territory and participants, Pacific was greater. Learn to read.

    Wow....your logic and brain cells must be deformed to come up with that.....

    :wallbang:

    They were at the minimal just as brutal. Nazi prefer to kill, Japan prefer to let them suffer first. If you get gassed then that means they were a bunch of nice guys. Either they don't kill or kill with pain.

    Jungles and swamps have deadly predators and diseases...also it could jam the weaponry.
     
  14. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Tell me flakey, what do you know about the Pacific war?
     
  15. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    Oh and for the record I'm not claiming to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the Pacific theatre but that isn't sufficient to realise that the Pacific was of less importance than the Eastern Front and attracts disproportionate and in my opinion undeserved attention. But I'm always willing to know more. Tell you what Fed, I'll read a book on The Pacific of your choosing if you read a book of my choice on the Eastern Front, hows that for a proposition?
     
  16. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    Irrelevant

    Your lack of understanding is probably down to the fact that you are 13 *cough*.

    Unworthy of a meaningful response.

    Right so Josef Mengale got it over with nice quickly did he? As did the Waffen SS? Einsatzgruppen followed suit did they?

    Not too many small arms function all that well in Arctic conditions it's more than a little troublesome to fire a rifle at -20c and below.
     
  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Can the book wait till June? Ive got a ton of end of the year work. That 22 page paper was only in history, Ive got a spanish book to write, A chemistry model that I have to assemble and present, and the most painful finals in the history of man kind.

    But flakey, a person can leanr more about the Pacific war on the underside of a bottle cap than they could from you. And I mean that in all seriousness. magic, JN-25, terawa, Okinawa, etc... Id wager a lot of money that unless you looked them up on google you dont even know what they are.

    How about this one. What do the army and the navy see when they gaze on heaven's scenes? Now granted this is an extremely dificult one but it illustrates my point that you do not know nearly enough about the Pacific war to debate about it.

    Nobody ever discredited Russia's achievement, this whole arguments you have been trying to discredit the US's.
     
  18. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    Not too many guns fire too well when they are filled with mud. Most soldiers dont fight too well with malaria. Guadalcanal was nicknamed "the asshole of the world"

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    by the marines.

    Its pretty dificult to fight when you step in mud waist deep.
     
  19. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    Likewise, I've got exams all this month and the next.

    Right ok, so what have I got wrong then?

    I'm not discrediting anyone! I'm arguing that the Pacific War is of secondary importance to the Eastern Front that's it. If you believe that I am discrediting the U.S you must believe that the Pacific is the most important theatre of the war.

    Thats enough mud slinging for tonight. Flake out.
     
  20. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    It's not what youve got wrong so much as that you completely do not know anything about it.

    You said the Japanese were inferior technologically. But Im betting if you had known that they had built some of the greatest ships of the entire war you would not have said that. They built the largest battleship in history the Musashi. And the world's first supercarrier the Shinano. If you knew anything about the second world war you would know that there were thousands of instances where the most significant events in human history take place.

    For example, the current record for the largest naval ship to ever be sunk by a submarine is held by the USS Archer Fish for the sinking of the shinano at 72,000 displacement tons?

    Flakey, your knowledge of the Pacific war isn't wrong. But the fact is your knowledge of the Pacific war could be summed up on a bottle cap. I could right a short book on everything I know about the Pacific war and Im 17, and that has come after years of reading and education outside of any classroom. My problem with you is that you are making a conclusion yet you have not even seen the facts.

    Would you say the Japanese were inferior if you knew many of the Japanese soldiers had been fighting since the Waffen SS were still wearing diapers?!?

    Would you say they were inferior if you knew that they were the pioneers of modern aircraft carrier aviation?

    you see, none of your conclusions make sense because there are dozens of examples that tear them to shreds. How could the Japanese not be as horrid during the war as Germany if they killed more than 30 million people many of them innocent while Germany only killed 12 million minorities and political prisoners and POW's?

    Your assumptions are complete BS because there are explicit details well decumented that blow your assumptions out of the f*cking water.
     
  21. sweet Pentax Registered Senior Member

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    920

    stop bending facts .... and bending is a nice word in your case. yes, the japanese quite killed a lot of chinese. that doesn´t make them a "dangerous enemy". seems their so sophisticated navy was easy to take for the american navy. how many soldiers died in the pacific theatre? my numbers suggest 1.700.000 dead japanese soldiers and only 50.000 dead american soldiers. and as you already have said, the japs had no intention to invade america, i just don´t get it how you come to the conclusion, that they were dangerous and the pacific war was important to anyone

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    it was just about some stinky islands ....
     
  22. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    It’s painfully ironic when Americans bring up Unit 731. Yes, they were unimaginably barbaric, no argument there.

    But, what happened to them after the war? Given that the US was occupying Japan, you would think that these scum would have been hung by their balls for what they did. Yes? Some of their victims were American POWs.

    No. Douglas MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America with their research on biological warfare. Some former members of Unit 731 headed U.S.-backed medical schools. Shiro Ishii, the former commanding officer, moved to Maryland to work on bio-weapons research.

    That displays a breathtaking level of hypocrisy on the part of the USA, don’t you think? The same goes for the USSR, of course, who did exactly the same thing. You might try to argue that such duplicitous behaviour by the USA was necessary in order to provide a deterrent to the USSR’s bioweapons program, but that’s merely a convenient excuse to avoid any ethical responsibility.
     
  23. flakeyairportchunks Registered Senior Member

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    You’re misconstruing awful with inferior. So what if the Japs built a small number of well built ships? As a whole their technology was inferior. Their aircraft were inferior, their tanks were inferior and their small arms were inferior. Just as the Soviets built the best tank of the war, overall their technology was inferior. Their military doctrine however was extremely effective, something which the Japanese struggled with. I’ve yet to see you comment on this.

    Great.

    I haven’t made the Pacific my primary focus. THAT DOES NOT MEAN IN ANY WAY I DO NOT POSSESS AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT TRANSPIRED IN THE PACIFIC THEATRE. Stop exaggerating it’s getting embarrassing.

    A significant proportion of the Janjaweed in Sudan have been fighting from early childhood with decades of combat experience. Do you think for one second a Janjaweed unit could stand face to face with a platoon of Rangers?

    Now it’s clear YOU are not aware of the facts. Let me just inform you that 23000000 Soviet soldiers and civilians died in world war 2, so already your claims are flatly false. Do you want me to add to the fray Polish and other eastern European casualties? I don’t think you do.

    You have to stop with this awful hyperbole it is really detracting from your argument.
     

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