The atrocities of Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Magical Realist, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Cheezle Hab SoSlI' Quch! Registered Senior Member

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    I would have to agree that the Catholic Church is pretty far from the religion that Christ pushed. It is also pretty obvious that the Catholics added a lot of pagan ideas into the mix in an attempt to bring in more followers. If you go to Central America and look at the Catholicism there, it is merged with local customs and beliefs. While the priests may try to stay with the Church's doctrines, the people don't. I am sure the early Church was greatly influenced by the pagan cults that existed in Rome at the time.

    But nobody knows exactly what the original Christian Church was like. There are differences in the accounts presented in the different books of the New Testament. And I have heard supposed experts talk about the need to read the texts in the original language. And of course you need to understand the context of the time. Which all sounds a little like arguing about the what the meaning of "is" is. I wonder if Christ had known what the future of his religion was going to be like, if he might have just kept his mouth shut. That would have saved a lot of people a lot of suffering. At the very least he should have written the words of the Bible himself and kept it short and to the point.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus is recorded as having made over 70 references to hell as a place of burning torment for sinners. The vast majority of Christians share this same belief. Here is a website listing bible verses supporting that belief. Note I personally don't believe a thing the bible says. I'm simply showing what most christians believe.


    The Truth About Hell
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...eved in hell&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus is recorded as having made over 70 references to hell as place of burning torment for sinners. The vast majority of christians share the same belief. Having tried now to ,unsuccessfully, post a link to a website listing these verses, I leave it to you take my word for it. Or if you still doubt, I can list the verses myself in a future post. Note I don't believe a thing the bible says. What I'm trying to show is the biblical justification for the doctrine of eternal hell.
     
  8. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    However as there are more people on this planet then there has ever been, and with the technically weaponry we have now we can kill an awful lot of people in one go. If religion had those kind of weapons in the past the population would have been a much smaller one now.
    Given that! Statistically religion has been far worse, over the course of history.

    Communism, is just another form of religion. it is not that it's too critical of religion; the problem is that it is too much like religion. Such regimes are dogmatic to the core, also if you read the book of Acts, you will find that the Bible is basically a Communist manifesto.


    And to aid Magical Realist here are a few quotes of Jesus talking about hell.

    In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

    In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire . . ."

    In Mark 9:46, Jesus speaks about Hell: "Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."

    Revelation 20:15 says, "And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
     
  9. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    What said community offers is entirely self-referential, circular.
    You referring to the need for discrimination is a joke, given that I am also supposed to believe that whatever I think, feel and do, is wrong anyway.


    For an ordinary adult who is not yet a member of a theistic community, it is not possible to enter a theistic community - including a theistic outlook - other than via a leap of faith.

    And if there is one thing I resent, it's leaps of faith.
     
  10. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    15,058
    I think everyone on principle fears God. Some people try to get rid of this fear by denying that God exists, or by maintaining an image of God that is easy to dismiss.

    What some theists do, however, is that they use this fear against people, and thereby successfully manipulate them.

    So if one is not aware one is afraid of God and doesn't have a way to wholesomely address this fear, then a theist can easily use that against one - and one doesn't even know what hit one.
     
  11. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    Really interesting quote. I hope have time to read Mark. This is probably a good reason to read about Near Death Experience research. That will give you a more accurate picture of the afterlife might be like. If you bump into a hellfire&damnation preacher, you can tell them this: according to so this many thousands of NDE experiences, you're full of crap.

    Mathew 13:
    "13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

    13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

    13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

    13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

    13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

    13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth"


    I don't think he is talking about sending souls to hell. It's a parable of the tares. I think he's referring to "things that offend" such as episodes of South Park and the Jerry Springer show, and casting those into the fire. The wailing and gnashing of teethe would come from the owners of those videos. These verses cannot be used to support the idea that souls go to hell.
     
  12. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    When it's talking about everlasting fire, don't just leave an ellipsis.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Here is the complete quote from the Bible.

    25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

    25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

    All this passage is doing is encouraging you to help others and to treat others the way you would want to be treated if you were hurt, hungry, thirsty, suffering and alone in the world.
     
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks. Those are the verses. There's also the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, with the rich man in hell complaining about being in torment. Jesus obviously believed in hell. That's why I don't think he was THAT moral of a person. Condemning people who reject your message to hell is a very childish and hateful way of thinking.
     
  14. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Can you explain why you think so?

    Would a grown-up and kind person just sit there passively, watching and let everyone do whatever they want (including killing people)?
     
  15. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    I've heard the parable that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then it is for a rich man to get into heaven. But I've never heard of a parable of a rich man in hell. Can you cite it for me?
     
  16. siledre Registered Senior Member

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    actually it isn't the fault of the church, the church is another excuse for humans to do what they've always done, or at least a small portion of us that aren't capable of putting their primitive side in its place. Humans are the problem in all of these situations, the church itself is not a living thing, it's made up of humans and as long as there are people willing to listen to the dark side of their nature...
     
  17. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    So you blame these atrocities on those who have been tempted by the evil one, Satan? Works for me.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    The Rich Man and Lazarus Luke 9

    19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead
     
  19. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Why not somebody blame the atrocity of technology, technology that was used to kill people?
     
  20. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    From the King James Bible, Luke 9, verses 19 to 31, this is what I have.
    9:19 They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.

    9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

    9:21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;

    9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

    9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

    9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

    9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

    9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

    9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

    9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

    9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

    9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

    9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

    9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

    Are you sure you're quoting from the Holy Bible? Cab you doublecheck your quote?
     
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Try Luke 16..
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  23. Gerhard Kemmerer Banned Banned

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    I do take your word for it, I have no reason to question what you express. Many posts are already bringing in interpretations, which on face value can be argued either way, unless you knew better personally.
    I like the fact that you have an opinion based on what you have gathered, you are not ignorant. With further research you may discover that Jesus used illustrations that people of pagan background as well as Jews could relate to. Hell is a place and time of destruction, but not then and not now, and certainly not with unjust and abject cruelty, which never ends. It will be short and swift, but also just in severity. Some religions have this one right others are floundering in stupidity and lies. There is a great range of crap, from heavily mixed to diluted. And this is supposed to turn people off from reading the Bible.

    For those of you who want to carry this subject further, it has already been dealt with in previous threads, so much!

    Back on the thread theme, it seems that when it comes to reputation God, the Bible and genuine Christianity are complete losers.

    What if they aren't? And that wars are from a false form of it?
     

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