In this thread, spidergoat said: I don't know anything about Amish lifestyles except that they live without the conveniences of modern society and practice nonviolence. How are the Amish "left alone"? What is their attitude to people joining their community? What is their attitude to people leaving their community? How do they integrate with the rest of the population? What is their contribution to the society they live in? What are their rights and responsibilities as citizens of their country? How does their religion impact any of the above? PS I was not sure if this constitutes politics, so I've put it in free thoughts to allow a more non-political outlook in discussion
Amish on Wiki I might be wrong, but I get the general impression that anyone can choose to become part of the Amish church community by a believers baptism as long as they can commit to following the Ordnung. Conversion is not something that happens regularly, but has happened.
Devil's Playground (2002) "Devil's Playground" introduces the viewer to "rumspiga," the planned release off the parental and community leash of teenagers on their sixteenth birthday. According to the young men and women interviewed, virtually anything goes during an indefinite period of freedom that can end in a few months or go on to age 21. At some point each youth decides whether to embark on a life outside Amish society or take church vows that are considered inviolable once voluntarily assumed. Defectors are shunned by family and friends if they leave the church after taking the vows. The film follows Amish youth to huge parties monitored by justifiably concerned Indiana police. Sex appears to be a route for some but dancing and excessive consumption of alcohol is a key activity for most, especially the males. Some fall into the world of drugs, including dealing. Faron, a clearly troubled young man, is followed by the camera crew from innocent flirtation and all-night partying to serious drug taking to felony selling. Subsequent threats to his life came after he cooperated with the police. The females seem to be more hesitant about unshackling fetters than males. The boys all adopt everyday teen garb while the girls experiment with beer and cosmetics but largely remain clothed in traditional attire. Interestingly, many of the boys take on "english" girlfriends, a safety mechanism that actually lessens the likelihood of their permanently abandoning their community. A number of Amish youths discuss their family relations and whether they will join the church or adopt a new lifestyle. Many comments have a rehearsed quality, not surprising when the speakers haven't been brought up to freely express themselves. A postscript notes that some ninety percent of Amish youth resolve to join the church, giving up cars for buggies, t-shirts for bland work clothes and beer for juice. One clear clue as to why the retention rate is so high is the virtual total lack of intellectual curiosity or desire for education in the Amish youth population. What seems to be a period of genuine freedom is really a very clever release of people whose likelihood to question or rebel is suitably repressed rather than advanced by an episode of largely aimless partying.
Each county (separate from political county; like a religious parish) decides its own doctrine. Believe it or not, the Mennonites came first. They "advanced" too quickly, so the Amish split off and are the core, more conservative group. I don't know where Spider's been, but I live in Amish Country. I can ride my bike to several Amish houses. The Midwest is full of Amish and Mennonites. They socialize, integrate and work in regular jobs (well, the men mostly, and that's usually construction). Like conservative Jews, they don't proselytize and look on anybody wishing to join them with a degree of suspicion. It's not that they don't believe people can convert, it's just that they know how hard it is to give up modern conveniences. It happens, mostly through marriage and is usually someone from a community very familiar with the Amish and more than likely with some Amish lineage who just chose to integrate into modern life. Totally acceptable, before baptism. Baptism is a "promise" to God and the community, so to leave after that is the breaking of a covenant with the community and with God. Those who leave after baptism are usually ostracized by the community (unless they rejoin, and are forgiven). Some counties go to public schools. Some have their own schools. Many Amish don't really use English until they start going to school. Almost entirely positive--once into adulthood. During Rumspringa things can get rowdy. A good number struggle to adjust to this free period and get hooked on drugs. Meth is a big deal. They're human beings and fall into the same traps we do. Once into adulthood, they are fully self supporting. The community doesn't allow one family or person to fail (after baptism). They go to hospitals when sick, but the community pays for the hospitalization in full (they don't believe in insurance), and as such are pretty good bargainers when it comes to pre-paid medical care. The exact same as anybody. Religion doesn't free citizens of much, except they aren't forced to serve in any military or civil service, being pacifists. They pay taxes, but opt out of social security (something people can actually do, but is very complicated) because they are morally opposed to receiving it. The government has given them a legal exemption since the sixties. Not altogether dissimilar to conservative Jews. Their religion is their identity and culture. ~String
The Amish and Mennonites are among the very few farming cultures whose population is growing - in a country where family farmers are maybe 15 % the number they were, and with fewer children and other relatives, there are more Amish and Mennonite farmers now than there were fifty years ago - and their farms are not ruined by destructive practices for short term profit. They can farm as they do indefinitely, most places. IIRC the loss rate is somewhat higher than the implied 10%, in practice. But they have large families as a rule. There's an open question as to how important the safety valve of the outer world is, in its functional bleeding off of the maladjusted. What would happen to Amish society if that fraction of its youth had to be incorporated is speculation, but there's no doubt it's a significant factor in the stability of the community.
