The 16 Million Children of Genghis Khan

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by madanthonywayne, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    A recent study of the prevalence of various Y chromosome variants has uncovered the genetic legacy of Genghis Khan. The Y chromosome, unlike all the rest, has only one copy. It pairs up with the X chromosome in males, and is absent in females who have 2 X chromosomes.

    This means that the Y chromosome is passed unchanged from generation to generation of males baring any new mutations.

    A study was being done of the prevelence of various Y variants and they found that in Asia approximately 16 million men share a certain Y chromosome. By studying the pattern of the spread of this Y chromosome they were able to determine that it could only be Genghis Khan who gave rise to it.

    The average man from the era of Genghis Khan would expect to have about 800 decendents. Instead, Genghis Khan has 16 million! Why?
    Documents written during or just after Khan's reign say that after a conquest, looting, pillaging, and rape were the spoils of war for all soldiers, but that Khan got first pick of the beautiful women. His grandson, Kubilai Khan, who established the Yuan Dynasty in China, had 22 legitimate sons, and was reported to have added 30 virgins to his harem each year.

    "The historically documented events accompanying the establishment of the Mongol empire would have contributed directly to the spread of this lineage," the authors conclude.
    Or to quote Mr Khan himself:

    "The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions. To see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms"

    So Genghis Khan raped and murdered his way across Asia, and now his male descendent's account for 1/2% of the world population!

    What does this say about the role of rape in human evolution? Genghis Khan may be the most successful known example of rape and murder as a reproductive strategy, but for millennia, the rule was "kill all the men and rape all the women". Even such recent conflicts as the Bosnian war seemed to rapidly degenerate into that sort of barbarism.

    Is there a savage in each of us, buried within our DNA and the thin veneer of civilization just waiting for the chance to get out?
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    There is certainly a caveman in each of us, and he's not very deeply buried. Since the end of the Paleolithic Era roughly 12,000 years ago, when the Agricultural Revolution started us down the road to civilization, we have only undergone a few hundred generations of breeding. That is not nearly enough for evolution to perform a major revision of our instincts. We are still the same people who used to live in small nomadic extended-family groups, walking through our hunting and gathering territory, sleeping in a different camp every night, and regarding any other groups we encountered as hated competitors for our scarce food resources.

    We are not programmed to like strangers. It's a testament to the power of our uniquely enormous forebrain, that we can override this instinctive behavior with reasoned and learned behavior. We've learned to live in relative harmony and cooperation with nearby tribes, then with anonymous strangers, then with people we've never met, and lately even with people on the other side of the planet who are nothing but abstractions. We do this because the results are more food, more security, more comfort, and in general a more satisfying life for everyone.

    But that caveman is still there, being mollified with all the prosperity, comfort and entertainment of civilization--most of the time. Occasionally he breaks out and does something uncivilized.

    It's a biological imperative to pass on our genes, and for men that means mating with as many women as possible. (For dogs it's very nearly the exact opposite: each female in estrus will mate with every male in the pack, because then they will all assume that at least one of the puppies in the litter is theirs, so they will protect them from being killed by the other females--or by a predator foolish enough to blunder into this scenario.)

    Today we have rules about whom we mate with and we're strongly discouraged from attempting to maximize our conquests. But when you're the king of a fierce army of barbarians, you get to make your own rules.

    Genghis Khan was just setting his Inner Caveman free.

    The fundamental rule upon which the survival of civilization depends is: You are never allowed to kill another human being just because you hate him, or for any other reason except that he initiated violence against you first. When men go to war they are told in basic training that they are now not only permitted, but encouraged to violate that rule. In other words, war is a colossal breakdown of civilization.

    When they are told to break that rule, then clearly all of the other rules humans follow which make us civilized are going to be broken too. If you're going to be a caveman, why hold back?
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  5. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Perhaps only in the descendents of Genghis Khan. I'm glad I'm not related to that nasty asian twit. In artistic depictions, he is very ugly.

    I descend from upper class folk from the west-most edge of Scotland.

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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Oh, then it's absolutely out of the question that you descent from rapists

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  8. birch Valued Senior Member

    as if rapists are only asian, you twit!

    most women were raped back in the day, they didn't have rights or could choose who theirs spouse was most of the time.
  9. birch Valued Senior Member

    that's pretty hard to believe. a female only has a small window every month where she can become pregnant so even if one were to have sex, most copulations don't end in pregnancy. if you are raping and pillaging your way across the continent, that would be usually one rape per person.

    it's not really that easy to get pregnant.
  10. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    (Pointedly refraining from sheep jokes.)

    Too right, Fraggle...
    You know, I always thought that biological clock crap was just that? But I'm almost too old to reproduce now, and sometimes, seeing a baby will make me desperately want to pop one out.
    I don't want to do that to some poor kid-give them asthma and major depression. Likelihood of mother to child transmission of mood disorders is over 50%. Even if I found a sperm donor with gold-plated DNA, probably a bad idea. Plus the wife and I are overtaxed and broke as it is.
    We could feed and clothe a kid, but the medical care and homeschooling we both feel ought to be done is beyond us.
  11. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Why remove yourself from the gene pool? Is your mood disorder that bad? Ever see Idiocracy? Do you really want to dumb to inherit the earth?
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

    i hear this a lot but that's the problem and a major blindspot. the world isn't shit because of dumb people as much as assholes. they are far more destructive. "then" it's dumb people. but at least dumb people can be taught.

    when you've got a person with bad character mixed with some intelligence (usually will end up in manipulation), the shit is going to hit the fan.
  13. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    That's part of the issue...

    Plus slap the asthma (five drugs to control it) allergies, and a now nine-year-old sinus infection down on top of it...
    Add in that I think treatment for chronic medical problems are going to become *very* hard to get due to peak oil...which is going to be really nasty in the states...

    ...And that we're dirt-poor, very busy, and stressed, and living on an overpopulated planet anyway...

    Oh, I dunno which of the nine-some-odd meds I'm on are teratogens...

    No I haven't seen Idiocracy, but I get the's just that intelligence has a low heritability.
  14. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    You talk about not entering the gene pool like it's a really bad thing.

    Myself, I don't want children because a) I have mild ASD symptoms, and I don't want an autistic child like my younger brother and b) I like children nearly as much as I like diarrhea.
  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Could be a problem.
    A very funny movie. I recommend it. As to the heritability of intelligence
    Estimates in the academic research of the heritability of IQ have varied from below 0.5[6] to a high of 0.9.[9] A 1996 statement by the American Psychological Association gave about .45 for children and about .75 during and after adolescence.[10] A 2004 meta-analysis of reports in Current Directions in Psychological Science gave an overall estimate of around .85 for 18-year-olds and older.[11] The New York Times Magazine has listed about three quarters as a figure held by the majority of studies.[12]​
    I'd say it's tantamount to suicide. The death of your family line. On a personal level, getting old would be a bleak affair without family. Without something to connect you to the future. Some part of you living on.

    Anyway, that's how I feel. To each his own.
    As to reason A, talk to a genetic councilor, I'm not sure what your risk of having an autistic child would be. Reason B is certainly reasonable, but your feelings may change over time.
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

    that makes a lot of sense. let's keep with that belief. it's just a matter of intelligence and the world will be better.

    i don't know but aren't despotic leaders intelligent? they've got to be intelligent to rise to the top. do you think if more intelligent people were in the world, they would be smart enough to stop them or do you think it would just be more competition between them for the top? isn't that the same thing now?

    how about drug kingpins? probably not idiots.

    how about con-artists? probably not idiots.

    the most overlooked is character. it's good character AND intelligence that is important to make a better world, not just intelligence by itself.

    the baseline of what is considered the average iq would shift but does that mean it would make a significant difference in the world? would that stop people from warring? murdering? screwing others over for their own gain?

    is intelligence tied to better character? or could that make someone who is of bad character a better liar, better cheat, better asshole?

    so how is intelligence alone so important?
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    I'm not at all convinced that allergies are hereditary. Where did all these children with wheat allergies come from? Their ancestors would have died of starvation after being weaned in the Middle Ages, because there wasn't much else to eat.

    We already know that the performance of the immune system can be drastically influenced by non-hereditary factors such as the human immunodeficiency virus. Ailments like lupus and fibromyalgia have turned out to also be autoimmune dysfunctions: the body's immune system attacking its own tissues.

    It's been controversially suggested that some allergies are the result of today's children being shielded from the pathogens my generation grew up with and got sick from, so their immune systems are never "calibrated" to recognize real dangers. In frustration they attack anything that comes along, including harmless things like pollen, pet dander and wholesome human foods.

    I was about 25 before I ever met anyone who was allergic to peanuts. Now bringing a peanut butter sandwich to school will get your kid in worse trouble than a crack pipe.
  18. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    I can't tolerate wheat, but it's definitely not from lack of exposure to muck...

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