# Terrorists

Discussion in 'World Events' started by kmguru, Jul 12, 2001.

1. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
NEWS:
WASHINGTON -- It's been just one month since Timothy McVeigh was executed for the Oklahoma City bombing, and U.S. officials are trying to prevent similar disasters.

At a government summit on Wednesday, Attorney General John Ashcroft said that thwarting terrorist attacks was his "number-one priority" and that the Feds were stepping up efforts to guard against chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear threats.

Ashcroft said the Justice Department was already planning for 2003 an exercise called "TOPOFF2" -- which stands for "top officials" -- involving simulated attacks carried out with no notice against American cities. The first TOPOFF took place in May 2000 with a mock biological attack on Denver and a fake nuclear bomb near Washington, D.C.

The attorney general also predicted noose-tight security during the 2002 Winter Olympics, which will be held in Salt Lake City.

"We are doing everything we can to ensure that people from all over the world can come to the Games, bring their families, enjoy the excitement of world-class athletic competition, and feel safe and secure," Ashcroft said.

During the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta, federal agents falsely accused security guard Richard Jewell of being responsible for planting a small bomb that killed two people.

ANY THOUGHTS?

3. ### ripleofdeathRegistered Senior Member

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2,762
hey all
yo kmguru
well i think it is only natural for the increase but i think it is much like a karmic river effect the longer they ressist change the bigger the incident to create change will occur.

imagine how good the security would be in a place that everybody cared about others and was watching out for others and their own security.
on top of paid high quality pro-active security
a few good deeds to some of the neigbours certainly increases your fences to lean on.

i wonder who realy fired the weapon that blew a hole in the side of the fbi building-note the blast direction and angle.

groove on all

5. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
Their are two kinds of threats: Internal and External. Internal means locals that get restless and stupid and who do stupid stuff. Under this scenario, minor skirmishes will continue to rise because of the breakdown of our social structure in big cities. The government should work with religious leaders (overtly or covertly) to stabilize the situation.

On the external side, it is a whole different and very complex problem. It can be solved but needs billions of dollars and collaboration from other rich countries. It is more of a political issue than military issue. Pouring money to beef up anti-terrorist sqauds will not prevent the sprouting of those weeds.

ROD, how do you create an atmosphere of "Everybody caring about others" in the international scene?

7. ### Corp.HudsonRegistered Senior Member

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419
.....

Well, first off America could stop pissing everyone off. All we have to do is stop exporting our culture and forcing it on other regions that may not be ready to give their traditions up in favor of cheap merchandising.

8. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

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8,616
...and prehaps we should stop exporting money and aid? After all if they don't want our influnce they surely should not take our money and goods. (Call me a little irate today)

9. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
...that is not a bad idea. However, the problem is when one group dominates over another (whther it is a false perception or real), it creates resentment and breakdown. For example, Russians had high hopes that if they become democratic, we would help them and suddenly they become like us.

Now they are pissed because their perception is that we did not....

10. ### ripleofdeathRegistered Senior Member

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2,762
hey all
like the united nations and alike
BUT
its the people that everyone panders to in the hope of a handout that allows the perversion in some form.
just look at murder!
in some countrys it is punnished by killing and others it is jail for 10 years.
but in both situations it still continues to not act as a deterrent.
soo!....what can we conclude?
a new approach is needed and yet look to c who actualy employees one?
do i hear the words "let sleeping dogs lye"..........?
well sure y not specialy if they r sleeping in your backyard
with schreds of your childrens clothes in their mouth...
blood pooled on the ground...splatterd and a spekled trail through your families entire life.

but hey!... their just making money!
and we like our war toys and realvideo programs
@^@
/VVV\
the monster lives within can we evolve past it?

groove on all

11. ### kmguruStaff Member

Messages:
11,757
Who said punishment is a deterent to doing anything? How many people obey the speed limit knowing they may get a ticket? OR that why we have a drug problem? How come we are (the USA) is the biggest jailor in the first world?

There is always a solution. But the people themselves do not want the solution thinking it may infringe upon their right to dirty work. OR it is one of those greater good thing where we close our eyes because it takes too much energy to do something good.

A case in point. Statistics or bell curve says certain humans will have a propensity for violence. Since we do not yet have a gene therapy to handle that, the education is the key. But have you been to a public school lately? I can go on and on....

Until we all ask for change, we will stay with your vengence system of justice.

12. ### ripleofdeathRegistered Senior Member

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2,762
too true

and its the people that he killed who wanted and thought they were doing something to try to help all the other people to maintain their rights!
:/

groove on all

13. ### Corp.HudsonRegistered Senior Member

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419
terrorism

I still maintain that we should focus on eliminating the causes of terrorism, instead of wasting our time talking about how horrible the terrorists are.

Do you think that Bin Laden just woke up one day and decided to declare jihad against the US? No, we backed him into a corner until the only option available to him was terrorism.

We love to talk about how despicable these people are (and tey are), and how horrible their actions are (which they are), and how there are other ways to make your point.

What we don't realize, is that to these people, there are no other ways. They try and try, and noone listens. So they resort to terrorism.

14. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
Along the same line of thinking (~Corp. Hudson), can we feel their pain so that we can solve those issues before it is too late (for them that is)?

We show up in somebody's back yard, drinking and womanizing (an example) that they do not like or against their religion or whatever, can we be sensitive to that? OR is it, they better learn our way or else?

What is the root cause of this stuff and can we understand enough to prevent it?

15. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
Today, in A&E Biography channel the topic is Bin-Laden . Very interesting

16. ### ripleofdeathRegistered Senior Member

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2,762
bobby lee
soo you ponder on philosophy?

one would have to draw the line at intent to harm i believe.
and thus the word terrorist takes many forms.
is a revolutionist a terrorist?
now theres a good one!

i will ponder that a while!

groove on all

17. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
Bobby Lee:

Here are my thoughts on both your postings. The definition is:

ter·ror·ism n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

If you do not fall in to that category then you are not one. Just because you terrorized your younger siblings when you were a kid does not mean....

Now, your second posting is difficult to answer. We have anti-terrorist squads in the military, FBI, CIA, NSA you name it. They really do not have any freaking idea, why this happens but they are ready to kick butt - eliminate the person or group that our government says are terrorists.

By theis classic definition, the abortion clinic bombing is the act of terrorism, so is the Boston Tea Party if it resulted in violence. Say you strongly feel that we should not send probes out side our planet because somehow you are acting agaist the God. This twisted idea, if finds support among a few people, and your group if starts violent acts to get your point across....is terrorism.

Now there are good terrorists too (like good bacteria and bad). Say a group with the help of USA attacked government installation in a communist regime like Cuba so that the goal is to convert them to our ideology (democracy), that will be considered good terrorism (we may not like the violence, but we can justify that it was just cause, just like in a war).

So you see, it is all in the Point of View.

The reason you did not get any replies is because, the officials did not think you can do anything about it, when the govt with all the fire power can not. But they should have been polite and courteous to reply to you.

With all the science and technology, trillion dollar economy, the very basic courtesy is still in short supply.

18. ### thecurly1Registered Senior Member

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1,024
Wow I missed a lot...

Ok where to start, hmm?

Well first let me start at where this thread began being "Terrorism". My first thought is that its a good idea to begin these practices to combat terrorism. I don't think the idea of these practices are only to prevent a terrorist attack, but to respond in a fashion that will reduce casualties. God forbid someone whacks us with Anthrax, we may be able to contain it and prevent many more deaths than if we had no training.

On preventing terrorism the US a few months ago caught some of Bin Ladin's boys trying to buy uranium or plutonium. Put two and two together. They wouldn't have to make a bomb go boom, just spread radioactive fallout which would be just as devastating to a city. It would be hard to prevent all terrorist acts, but then again we haven't had any domestic bombings by foreign terrorist since '92. Not bad, I give the CIA and everyone a lot of credit. It would be worse without them.

Its a bit comforting to know that we are performing drills for the 2002 Olympics, oven though I won't be there. Corp.Hudson said that maybe the US should back off of the world. Bad idea, last time that happened we got Hitler. Better exploding rental cars, than WWIII.

Again we have to remember that most terrorist attacks can't destroy the country. Terrorism's power is displayed by 24-hour news channels and sensationalizing media. When you kill just a few people you can get your ideology across the world for a relatively low sacrifice of your men or material. Works great really. Terrorism's goal is to scare the public into demanding that the US back out of world matters, if we want to become isolationists, or look over our shoulders every time we hear a "bang", then they have won. Terrorism is a phychology war more than a conventional one. We've done a damn good job so far.

BobbyLee, I think your idea of setting up a civilian anti-task force against cyber terrorism is a good idea. Then again it would have to be in conjunction with the FBI, so that users would have extensive background checks. Even then we are still vulnerable. But all in all with the kinks worked out it would be a great weapon. Good idea, petition for it to the President.

19. ### kmguruStaff Member

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11,757
Bobby Lee:

I surmise what you are getting at. Let me explain how our government works. One part of our government is career civil service who pretty much go from college or early on to the civil service. These people basically baby sit policy and enforce the laws and regulation. They fit in to normal bell curve pattern where some are very good and others very poor and a lot of them in the average category. But since you do not need to write software or trouble shoot technical gadgets, you do OK.

Now the other part is a whole slew of civilian support structure that help these government folks in exchange for money that you and I pay as tax. Government is still one of the major employers in the nation. These civilian folks are consultants, vendors, service providers and so on who also supply similar services to our free enterprise. So in essence the government has at their disposal the finest minds to get the job done. Because there is very little corruption between the civilian service group and the government group, that is why, our government does a better job than most other governments in the world. (I can give examples later).

Having said that, there are some short falls. Our government tries to get the cheapest service money can buy, because that is the way the rules are set up to be fair to everybody. Like sending a space shuttle designed by the lowest bidder. The government can not compete with private industries to get the best brain so they settle for "good".

What would be good is: suppose there are two consultants in private sector, the best one makes $250 per hour and the good one makes$70 per hour. Now normally, the government can not afford and settle for the $70 one. If we can set up a scenario where the best one can take that$70 and have the money tax free and some other incentives to compensate for the loss of \$130 per hour. Then the government can tap into the brilliant people (have the cake and eat it too). This is reality.

So, to answer your question in a round about way, the govt does have the ability to get excellent support and normally get good support. You are in good hands, but it could be better.

20. ### ripleofdeathRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
2,762
QUOTE>
It would be hard to prevent all terrorist acts, but then again we haven't had any domestic bombings by foreign terrorist since '92. Not bad, I give the CIA and everyone a lot of credit. It would be worse without them.
-----------------------------
PROVE IT !!!

hey all

> Terrorists
they have a vital role in most sociaties and that is why the govt is one of the biggest employers!

if most people were honest and non violent we would have a very different market place!

to break this cycle is the key!
to addopt another system that is closer to fair is a bold move and we can see what happens to the people who try-
i wont bother naming annyone in the fear they might get upset in dissagrement

*materialism is the vehicle of terrorism

...so ...all those that think capitalism is the key must accept materialism and thus terrorism!

ITS SIMPLE LOGIC and so what is left to debate?

groove on all

21. ### josmeetsRegistered Member

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2
i.m.h.o:

Sorry Mr. Ashcroft but people from all over the world seem to be very much more occupied with staying alive and really don't give a flying F about the display of your hormonally reformed athletes, much less are they prepared to help boost your failing economy.
Arrogance and absence of conscience could lead to severe paranoia (q.e.d. )!

"We are doing everything we can to ensure that people from all over the world can come to the Games, bring their families, enjoy the excitement of world-class athletic competition, and feel safe and secure," Ashcroft said.

22. ### thecurly1Registered Senior Member

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1,024
To Ripleofdeath...

You don't live in the US, but I would think you haven't been under a rock for the past nine years. No foreign terrorist has blown up US property since the World Trade Center bombing in NYC, 1992. It sounds to me like you think the Oklahoma City bombing was done by someone else than McVeigh. It wasn't he acted alone, or with one more person at the most. The gov didn't blow it up, neither did another country.

THERES YOUR PROOF. We could go on with stupid arguments, and haphazard facts trying to support conspiracys but this doesn't lead to anything worth talking about.

P.S. BAD SPELLING TO LAZY TO CHECK.

23. ### wet1WandererRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
8,616
The personal trauma of having one's world shaken to the very foundations, of having that which seems to make one's world ripped away so forcefully is not an easy thing to cope with. It is usually devastating, forcing those who suffer such many years of coping before they can "return to some semblance of normal". This is usually when the pain and vividness is worn by time. Though even this does not always happen. Some are so shocked that they can not get by it and live within it for the rest of their lives.

The first thing that comes to mind is not terrorist attacks but members of the military that wind up in a war. Ever notice that there are some that can not cope with it? Others who won't talk about it? And most that have never experienced such can't understand. It leaves its mark. Permanently. I think you have just witnessed first hand what happens. Too much carnage. To many dead. The horrible way that it happened. Another occupation that suffers from this is the police force. Ever know an old hand at it? In a large city? They’ve pretty much seen it all.

As a last comment to this post, I will leave one unsettling note. Give the CIA, FBI, and other government groups a lot of credit. They have been very successful in dealing with the terrorist threat. Especially when considering how many groups would like to make themselves known in side our national boundaries. The drug war has a hidden side. Those of spotting and interdiction of the unknown aircraft, shipping, and land travel into our borders. If drugs can so easily make it into the interior of our country, What do you think the chances are that unknown explosives could just as easily make it in? And I am not talking about the fertilizer bombs.