At least under any reasonable system of law. That means that the desperate strategy of the Bush Administration, in keeping their own asses out of legal hot water, are now attempting to force US law into retroactively endorsing abduction without charge, followed by torture. Now the more intellectually-challenged around here are free to rant that Khaled Sheikh Mohammed and the like are animals undeserving of due process. But if Americans can't defend his basic rights, neither can we defend our own. We've shunted the nobodys out of Gitmo, and now have our little rogue's gallery to anguish over. Our biggest fishes in captivity have had their cases corrupted by illegal capture and treatment. One more whopping failure thanks to the criminal Bush cabinet.
Ye're one of those who seems to think that "human rights" is something that we're all born with, something that was given to us all by god or something! Human rights are gauranteed FOR AMERICANS by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not for all people on Earth!!!! The terrorists are simply criminals, not from or for any recognized nation! They don't have any "human rights", nor any rights under the Miranda Act or any other act of the United States of America. They're international criminals .....NOT CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!! And yet, from your post, you want us to first, make them citizens of the US, then treat them in accordance with laws intended to protect the citizens of the US. and tha't just plain fuckin' stupid and ignorant! Baron Max
The Constitution of the US binds us to our treaties, including the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention is the Law of the USA, and our leadership must either obey the law or be formally criminalized. We must now choose: a) rule of law, or b) an authoritarian government, abandoning the present Constitution There is no c).
The Geneva Convention covers soldiers of recognized nations of the world! And the last I heard, "Terrorism" is not a recognized nation!!! Baron Max
The Geneva Conventions consist of four treaties formulated in Geneva, Switzerland, that set the standards for international law for humanitarian concerns. They are not limited to addressing combat between uniformed soldiers. Some background for review
hi hype thankl you for your post i hope all is ok with you... Now you are right terrorists are people (dont get excited now baron!!) rather deluded, demented, fucked up people(and so on aand so forth), but yes they are people
No, Zak, you're right ...and I'm not excited. Terrorists are "people" in the same way as murderers, rapists, robber and any other criminals are "people". But making excuses for them, for their behavior, is nothing more, nothing less than encouraging such behavior. Baron Max
of course! how stupid and naive we are. the terrorists use every despicable trick in the book, following no laws whatsoever. then you hype of all people scream that america must play by the rules. these terrorists are laughing thier fucking asses off at us, while you hype and people like you feed thier propaganda machine.
Indymaestro:"I think you just got your ass handed to you by El Baron!" I must have not been paying attention. Can you clarify on your own? IMO abandoning oursystem of justice encourages terrorists greatly. They revel in tortured brother and sister martyrs, and in compromised Western legal proceedings.
Our system of justice is for citizens of the USA, Hype, not for every person on Earth!! And ye're right, using our own lily-livered, liberal system is doing nothing but encouraging the terrorists. I mean, look at it this way, the terrorist can laugh and be perfectly happy knowing that we won't ever do anything to them not matter how many people they kill. We do the same with our own murderers in this country ....murder has become a simple act now, not even a hint of harsh punishment for it. Of course it encourages the murderers ....we won't do anything to them!!! Baron Max
"Our system of justice is for citizens of the USA, Hype, not for every person on Earth!!" Wrong again, Baron. Our system of justice encompasses our international agreements. How we comport ourselves as a nation internationally, including how we apprehend and prosecute international criminals has tremendous consequences.
So ...if that's true, then we're obligated to invade the Sudan and stop the horrendous violations of "human rights" .....right? If not, ...does that make us hippo-crits? Ahh, but if we did invade Sudan .........would the rest of the world agree? And if not, what does that say about all those wonderful agreements of which you speak so highly? Baron Max
We are discussing the custody/treatment and prosecution/release of "enemy combattants", from criminals like KSM to victims like Maher Arar. There is an active Sudan thread, and I'll see you there on that subject. Please try again.
And that's just the problem, Hype, who the fuck are these "enemy combatants"? Do they wear uniforms and march as an national army or are they just whoever feels like shooting at someone? Are murderers "enemy combatants"? How do you recognize "enemy combatants"? ...AFTER they've killed a bunch of people? So we just wait around until the dust clears, then announce that we've found the "enemy combatants"? Baron Max
You follow the rules, Baron. Investigate. Follow the money. Follow the law. Keep the public informed and engaged. Legal pursuit of criminals is always far more effective than free-for-alls that produce still greater disruption, anger, and violence.
So ....what yer'e saying is that we should wait for the criminals to act, to kill millions, ......THEN we should do something. But in the meantime, many have been killled while we plug slowly thru the pitfalls of legal disputes and arguments. All the while being nice to the up-n-coming murderers because tha'ts the nice thing to do? Baron Max
