# Tax cuts...

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Undecided, Jan 4, 2005.

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## Tax cuts during a war is...

23.1%

76.9%
1. ### UndecidedBannedBanned

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4,731
I am thinking to myself, why do Americans support these Bush tax cuts? To be fair, I think tax cuts are good under certain logical conditions. Bush was right in 2000 that he could cut taxes to boost the economy because the economy could sustain these tax cuts. The US in 2000 was a very different place indeed, with a federal surplus of over $200 billion I believe, it was the good times. The economy was slowing down at the time and sure Bush had his rationale to cut the taxes. So they were cut, then 9/11 happened. We have to go back about 60 years to get this into context, when FDR was in power and was attacked the Japanese did he cut taxes in the midst of the war? No, he raised taxes way up to pay for the war. Granted this war is not as extensive but nevertheless the American people needed the ability to pay for it. The Budget Deficit today is in excess of$400 billion, adding that with the current account deficit of about $600 billion, the US is incurring$1 trillion worth of debt a year! I read somewhere that under Bush the US has incurred more debt then all the years btwn Independence and Carter. The US economy did not benefit greatly from the tax cuts anyways, the reason why the US economy grew so well is mostly because of low interest rates, that had a significantly greater effect for the US economy. Now the interest rates are going up to adjust for raising inflation, and to cool down the economy. Making the tax cuts perminent (along with the deficit) it is shown through many academic articles that it will actually decrease the standard of living for Americans in the long run, it will crowd out private investment, and will be nessecary to raise interest rates, and a further depreciation of the dollar (in tandem with the C.A deficit). Increasing debt load, lower incomes, and eventually MUCH higher taxes will undo any perceived advantage from these totally illogical tax cuts. America needs to stop spending, my advice to Americans...save your money because the future doesn't look great. Can someone please explain the rationale for these tax cuts? Politically and economically?

OK if you are going to vote yes...mind explaining why?

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2005

3. ### vslayerRegistered Senior Member

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4,969
tax cuts are never good, less money means less education, less healthcare, less road repairs. if anything the US should have boosted its ridiculously low taxes years ago and started state healthcare.

even with a surplas tax cuts are not the answer, as was proven by my govt this year when a government surplus was not spent in tax cuts but in improved healthcare.

the only downside i can see to extra taxes in the american situation is that its current government spends an insane amount on military already, if extra was available the military wolud be all over it

5. ### el-halfRegistered Senior Member

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50
Because they are ignorant.

7. ### marvJust a dumb hillbilly...Registered Senior Member

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743
Since I'm retired from the Department of Defense and have seen taxpayer's tax dollars squandered, I voted 'yes'. Money spent by the private sector creates more jobs than money spent by the government because it's spent in more diverse ways feeding a greater variety of businesses and industries. That creates a healthier economy and results in greater tax revenue for the government at all levels. And a weak dollar also helps because it makes our exports more competitive on the world market.

Look at Europe. Strong currency and high taxes pretty much across the board and triple our unemployment rate on average.

BTW, the national debt is a smaller proportion of the GDP now than it was during WWII.

8. ### UndecidedBannedBanned

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4,731
Money spent by the private sector creates more jobs than money spent by the government because it's spent in more diverse ways feeding a greater variety of businesses and industries.

Yes in China...not in the US. If anything the tax cuts are not helping the economy at all, the tax cuts are a burden. The budget deficit because of the tax cuts…If you didn’t know actually increases the gov’t consumption of the GDP. So in reality what you are doing is actually taking away more money from those private individuals, to the point where the government will have to raise interest rates, and taxes so high that it would choke the economy off. Marv…do you know anything about economics?

That creates a healthier economy and results in greater tax revenue for the government at all levels. And a weak dollar also helps because it makes our exports more competitive on the world market.

All of which isn’t happening…save the exports.

Look at Europe. Strong currency and high taxes pretty much across the board and triple our unemployment rate on average.

Yes but higher wages, lower working hours, and Sweden for instance has a higher GDP per capita then the US, as does Ireland. Those nations aren’t exactly…neo-liberal. There are some bad states in Europe like Germany and Italy, and they are burdened by high taxes, but are bolstered by high exports, something the US doesn’t have. The fact that these countries still have trade surplus’ regardless of their Euro price is a testament to the quality of their goods.

BTW, the national debt is a smaller proportion of the GDP now than it was during WWII.

Of course…that’s a pretty stupid…But the Debt ratio to the GDP is increasing while spending is increasing and tax revenues are still lower…adding more debt and the eventual collapse of the American economy. Its pretty obvious Marv you listen to much to radio hot jocks…

Last edited: Jan 8, 2005
9. ### FreeMasonRegistered Senior Member

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75
Undecided, you can not compare the US (which has 6,000 Nuclear Warheads pointed at it), to Ireland or Sweden.

Those two nations owe their existence to the United States, which without they would be dominated by the USSR (which would still exist as it would have conquered more territory).

Because they owe their existence to the US, their success, is our success. So saying that "they have it better than people here" is rediculus, why don't you realize that they have something because we are paying for all their defense.

10. ### shrubby pegasusRegistered Senior Member

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454
this post is irrelevent. it doesnt address at all. who is pointing 6000 nukes at us? you also ignore facts that the US is seperated by two oceans from the rest of the world and has been fortunate enough to have some of the greatest supplies of domestic national resources. all of your points are moot. also, do you notice anything in common between those countries that have these high standards of living and universal healthcare? they arent giving the rest of the world the finger every chance they get like bush. thye dont walk out and say do what we want or else. either youre with us or agaist us, BS.

11. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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15,162
Politically
Looking better, specially in the eyes of big corporation and so. Decreasing taxes is often seen as something good, ya know?

Besides, if the government takes money away from expenditures such as education (which I bet it did, which raised tuition fees) and healthcare, for example, than the debt can be less worse.

Economically
No rationale at all. I even doubt Bush understands any economy whatsoever. Crowding out will just make things much worse. It is decreasing national saving and increasing interest rates. That also means less investment and a decreased ability for fiscal policy. Not only that, it also decreases net exports and depreciates the dollar. And, of course, it puts all the burden in the younger generations, and the generations to come, which will be paying all the interest. It will just sink the economy....

All thanks to the Keynesian households....

12. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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15,162
Yep. Lower taxes certainly looks good. But how many people do you know actually has enough knowledge about politics and economics? Are people aware that we have scarce resources and that they are never distributed evenly throughout society? I bet most americans are very much unaware of the conditions they actually live in. Being raised in a society that claims supremacy over the planet, they might not believe in scarce resources and actually even consider it to be a myth...

13. ### UndecidedBannedBanned

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4,731
Undecided, you can not compare the US (which has 6,000 Nuclear Warheads pointed at it), to Ireland or Sweden.

Why not? Firstly the US doesn’t have to spend billions of dollars on the self-deafeating military like the USSR. The US if she was logical would spend more money on education, and improving the fiscal situation in the US. If the US continues on her path of spending without taking into consideration the deficits, she will collapse economically like the USSR.

Because they owe their existence to the US, their success, is our success. So saying that "they have it better than people here" is rediculus, why don't you realize that they have something because we are paying for all their defense.

Ireland and Sweden owe nothing to the US, secondly the US did help but did not win the Second World War in Europe, and the USSR did much of the work, if anything the US would have had a VERY hard time without an expended Germany on the Eastern Front. So to claim that the US is the only saviour the world is to ignore history. Nations owe little to each other, the US fought out of necessity because Hitler declared war on the US, if he didn’t I don’t think the US would have bothered in Europe.

Anyways...what did ur post have to do with the rationalization of the irrational tax cuts which you somehow support?

Last edited: Jan 13, 2005
14. ### TruthSeekerFancy Virtual Reality MonkeyValued Senior Member

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15,162
Didn't the US get a whole lot of money selling guns in WWII? And than getting more money from Germany, because Germany was required to pay for the countries that Germany attacked? Not that the US was attacked like the european countries were...