Taoism enlightenment: Absolute Happiness.

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by taoist11, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    First, let me introduce myself. My name is Hieu Nguyen Ngoc, male, was born 1973. I am Vietnamese. I have BA in Science & English. However, my English is not native, therefore you should forgive me about faults in English, but not my thought as languages maybe different but thinkings are the same. About my Taoism, I thought about it, learnt it, meditated it 12 years, since 1992 to 2004 until I reached enlightenment. Please don't say that I am arrogant since to be enlightened is to perceive us & the world around are nothingness, not goodness. I never say that I am good but I say I'm chaotic, like Tao which Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu have taught.
    To begin with Taoism, we go from facts.I wanna write Taoism in a new way, unlike most of authors about Taoism, only bring Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu to discuss from time to time. I would like to tell you some stories which prove the good is the bad & conversely.

    It seems a paradox. But let me tell you an interesting story quoting from the newspaper Ho Chi Minh City Police, which named The “mysterious” motorcycle:

    Ngo Van Linh, 41, living in Danang, Vietnam, worked as a single taxi driver with an old motorcycle. At noon 17th December 2004, he was having lunch at home, leaving the motorcycle in the veranda, unlocked. A thief came, started the engine then ran away. The whole family saw that, shouted out loudly then ran after the thief. But Linh was still … phlegmatic, still said:”Run after him slowly, don’t run fast to be tired. He can not steal that vehicle!”. As he said, the vehicle ran just a section of way, then stopped;the engine didn’t work. The thief was frightened, left the motorcycle then ran for his life. Everybody was surprised , asked Linh whether he had a mysterious device for the vehicle. He smiled inanely:”Oh, this motorcle has many illness. He who isn’t familiar with it, can’t ride it.”

    A bad motorcycle is hard to be or never can be stolen. Thus, badness is goodness.
    Actually, the bad is just bad only to people not having good abilities. For example, Mike Tyson was sitting in a bar. Two drunk men came, said: “you have punches; we have guns”. Mike Tyson got angry, hit the two men. They let Mike Tyson hit them. After that, they sued Mike Tyson. At the court, Mike Tyson had to compensate them. Celebrities sometimes meet this kind of person, with provoking actions. Stars are considered milk cows for others to squeeze. Read this news, we see that Mike Tyson didn’t have a strong ability, and he was shallow. Badness is bad. But to people having great abilities, badness, evil just prove that they are good. For instance, Japan attacked Pearl Habor suddenly. This stimulated US. Lastly, US defeated Japan. Another example, the British invaded America in Washington time. This was badness for Americans. But this only made Washington become great because he led Americans well to defeat the English.
    The goodness living in peace, in some aspects, is bad. If Washington lived nowadays, he would have no difficulties, great work to do. He would only be a less famous leader. Living in peace makes him less great leader, only as great as President George W Bush, but living in war, or in badness made him the father of the nation, greater. Difficulties which people haven’t been able to solve like AIDS, cancer will be Nobel prizers for the next generations. There are no difficulties, no badness absolutely bad. There is ease in difficulty. As a consequence, we conclude: badness is goodness to the good ability people, or shorter, the bad is the good.
    Strength is also weakness. If you sing well, I invite you sing karaoke, you like me. If you like me, I may take advantage of you. Being a king of one hundred battles, win one hundred is a catastrophe. Chinese ancient literature tells us : Once Nguy Van Hau, a king, as Ly Khac, his official:”What is the cause for the Ngo state to be perished ?” Ly Khac answered immediately:”One hundred battles, win one hundred.” Nguy Van Hau was confused. Ly Khac explained:”One hundred battles, people become exhausted. Winning one hundred times, the king become arrogant. An arrogant king rules exhausted people, surely fail.” The strong changes into the weak. In Europe in Napoleon time, when Europe was not united, some countries were still in French side, Napoleon was the champion, was the European Emperor. But, after that Europeans recognized that they could not think of the Napoleon without making wars, therefore they united and they were against France, so Napoleon failed. He failed because he had won many times gloriously and he was so warlike. Even he was a genius, still he failed. According to Sun Tzu, The Art of War, what is strong is weak. In one battle, if the enemy is strong in the front, they are weak in the back. If they are strong in the back, they are weak in the front. If they are strong in the front and the back, they are weak in the two sides. If they are strong in the two sides, they are weak in the front and the back. If they are strong four sides, because they stretch in four sides, then they are weak in four sides. The strong is the weak and to win is to lose.
    2. The king of So state wanted to nominate Confucius to be the ruler of an area of land which had 700 ly (a ly was a group of 25 families). The head of officials of So was Tu Tay asked:

    - Among your messengers you send to other states, is there anyone as good as Tu Cong ?
    - No
    - Among people helping you, is there anyone as good as Nhan Hoi ?
    - No.
    - Among your generals, is there anyone as good as Tu Lo ?
    - No.
    - Among your officials, is there anyone as good as Te Du ?
    - No
    - Not only that, ancestors of So state was appointed only the title “viscount” and fifty miles of land (meaning So state had been small and had only been viscount, but at the moment, was a powerful state). Now Confucius follows The Three King’s laws. If we use him, how can So has thousands of miles of land forever? Van Vuong in Phong land, Vu Vuong in Cao Land were only kings having hundred miles of land, but lastly, they became emperors. Now, Confucius has a piece of land to make a base, and he has good disciples (Tu Cong, Nhan Hoi, Tu Lo, Te Du) to help. That is not blessing of So.

    Chieu Vuong King stopped.
    Confucius always fell into disfavour, because if he had had a small state, he would have ruled that state well. Other states would have followed him. Kings of big states, ambitious to be hegemony – who king doesn’t want himself to be “great” – so those kings would have been overturned. Confucius was so dangerous. Good conduct is dangerous and evil.
     
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  3. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    The Truth.

    The bad is yin and the good is yang. In general, what are negative are yin and what are positive are yang. Badness, weakness, back, softness, shadow, women, shame, failure … are yin. Goodness, front, hardness, light, men, glory, victory, … are yang. One law of Taoism is “yin is yang and yang is yin.”

    It seems difficult to understand. For example, if yin is yang and yang is yin, then men are women and women are men ? That’s right. In women there are germs of boys and in men, there are germs of girls. Poison is yin, but if we use it to kill flies, to kill malicious persons, it becomes good therefore it is yang. Bread you have every day is good, but not absolutely good. In bread, there is yin: you eat bread 7, 10 times as much, surely you get ill, or more than that, you die. Bread in this situation is bad, or yin. Our house, we live in it, we love it, thinking that it is good, or yang, but it is still yin since I have seen many siblings fighting with one another over the house. The house in this case seperates siblings, very bad. To lose is to win. Germany and Japan failed in the World War II but now they are powerful coutries. At the beginning of the 20th century, China was the prey for other countries to share, most of its people were unhappy, but now (2006), China is a powerful country. The inner world (your soul, your thought) is the outer world and conversely. This is difficult to understand but it is true. Let’s consider inner world is yang. It is yang because your thoughts are the most rapid in the world. In the nature, the highest speed is light, but to move from the Sun to the Earth, it takes 8 minutes with the speed 300.000 km/h. But your brain, while thinking of affairs of your family, it takes only less than 1/10 second to think of the Sun. Because thoughts move with such an extreme speed, we say thoughts are more positive, or yang, whereas the outer world moves more slowly, or more negative, or yin. Taoism says the inner world and the outer world are oneness. Dealing with our affairs, our happiness is dealing with happiness of the society (outer world), and conversely, water moves up, boats move up or when the society is richer, we become richer. Similarly, Buddha says Buddha and human beings are oneness:” I am a Buddha already; human beings are Buddhas will be”. Children who are abandoned, and are brought up by animals, i.e living far apart from human society, but living in animal society, when being brought into human society, they have no humanity; they cannot wear clothes, always tear things apart; they don’t understand and they can’t speak human languages; they eat like animals. Those children only reflect animal societies, not human society. Our inner worlds are the reflection of the society. It’s up to each individual that that reflection is close to the truth or not.

    The second law is nothing, nobody, no phenomenon is out of yin and yang. Everybody, everything, every phenomenon is the struggle and unity of opposite sides, i.e, yin and yang. In a body, if assimilation is positive or yang, then that body also has catabolism, which is negative, or yin. Digestion is yang and excretion is yin. In a vehicle, there are moving parts are yang and standing still parts are yin; hard parts are yang and soft parts like tires are yin. Lastly, everything is made of atoms. In an atom, the nuclear is motionless is yin and electrons moving very fast are yang. Yin and yang struggle with each other and unite with each other and produce everything, everyone, every phenomenon.

    Another law is yin and yang are relative. There is nothing is absolute yin and nothing is absolute yang. Therefore this leads to another famous law is “There is yin in yang; there is yang in yin.” For example, in a human body, digestion, in the aspect of supplying food, it is positive, or yang, so excretion, which supplies nothing, is yin, but in the aspect of releasing poisonous substance, excretion is yang and digestion is yin. Is a wooden table yin or yang ? In compare with the floor, it is higher, or more “positive”, or yang, but in compare with the roof, it is lower, or yin. In compare with bread, to a person, the table is yin since it does not supply food, or negative. But the table, to a termite, is yang as a termite can eat the wooden table. Yin and yang are not absolute.

    What creates yin and yang ? That is oneness. What is oneness? Oneness is a familiar cencept in Eastern philosophy. Goodness always goes with badness, consequently, goodness and badness are oneness, like two sides of a note. Similarly, the front and the back are oneness; the inner and the outer are oneness; blessing and disasters are oneness; glory and shame are oneness; etc. In general yin and yang are oneness. All are oneness; nothing is out of oneness. Oneness is the universal truth, or Tao (Dao). To be enlightened in Daoism is to see oneness. Oneness is the united of everything. Since two elements of oneness, yin and yang, are not clear, as there is yin in yang and there is yang in yin, oneness is chaotic, not clear. In conclusion, Dao is the unity of yin and yang. Yin and yang are two sides of Dao. Dao differentiates into yin and yang.
     
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  5. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    The fact that the US used nuclear weapons to effectively defeat Japan does not make them "good". I'll admit that it possibly saved lives in the long run but it was still essentially a terribly violent and destructive act. You might see it as a "victory" and in that sense call it something "good" but it's a much more complex consideration in my opinion. I mean, where does your moral compass fit into your enlightened perspective?

    George Washington was indeed a "great" man. He is seen by many (and quite deservedly so) as the father of America. But is a man like that any less great just because he never had the opportunity to exercise that greatness?

    I really don't like this example. None of that suffering is mitigated in the least by any number of Nobel prizes.

    No argument with that. Perfectly logical.

    Aside from anything else I've said here, I do of course understanding where you are coming from and what you are getting at. Central to my own personal philosophy is the same basic idea. That with the right attitude and perspective something good can come from something bad. But I think that this is a matter of perspective rather than a universal truth. The way I see it, good can come from bad, but sometimes the bad remains the bad.

    You can say "I'm really glad that I got into that car accident because when I was in hospital being treated for my cuts and bruises one of the doctors noticed a melanoma on my back and cut it out". But that doesn't mean that it was a "good" thing that there was a person out there on the roads who had had too much to drink. He might have killed me or someone else instead. And what if he had? How does that become good? It's possible that some good could come from it somehow, but it was still a terrible thing.

    Again, the subtle difference that I'm trying to point out here is that while you seem to be saying that bad can become good, I am saying that good can come from bad but that bad is still bad.
     
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  7. Search & Destroy Take one bite at a time Moderator

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    Life is a double-edged sword. Or everything has two sides. I think this is something most people understand at a very young age. I think I must have been enlightened when I was 10 or 11 in this case.

    Tell me something a bit more complicated. Or are you saying a full grasp of this concept that everything has to 2 sides take time?

    Thanks, and your English is very good.
     
  8. Rav Valued Senior Member

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    Central to a lot of Taoist thinking is the idea that the universe is unfolding as it should and that a person should not try to interfere with this natural process. Rather it's about embracing this fact and aligning ones own thoughts and very existence with it. Essentially it's a very passive philosophy. There's nothing particularly intellectually complex about it and I believe that when people talk about enlightenment they are talking about a state of mind which results from embracing it rather than claiming any superior technical understanding of the basic concepts.

    I like a lot of things about Taoism but in the end I just don't agree that we shouldn't try to actively exert our influence on the world when it's appropriate and/or needed.
     
  9. Search & Destroy Take one bite at a time Moderator

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    Good explanation, my curiosity is satisfied.
     
  10. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I was smiling with your thought. As you see two sides of everything, you would see money is not good, therefore you don't love $. & you don't love your country as it is not good only; and you see badness of your lover, so your love to her becomes weaker. To love someone is to attach goodness to her. Most of people see they are good they they pride of themselves, their families, & their countries, or say it another words, they are positive or yang.
     
  11. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    Ha ha. Your examples are amusing. But the drunk & his victims won't repeat the car accident. & people around him don't, too. That's goodness. Confucius says see the good to follow & also see the bad to avoid. We don't only learn from the good but a also learn from the bad. No badness is absolutely bad.
     
  12. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    enlightenment in Taoism is similar to that of Buddhism

    Let me tell you a tale which taoists & Buddhists would do the same: “Zen master Hakuin was praised as he lived a stainless life. A Japanese family having một food store near where Hakuin lived had a beautiful girl. Suddenly, one day, the parents found the girl was pregnant.

    The parents got angry. The girl didn’t confess who man she had had sex with, but after much trouble, they found out Hakuin.

    Being indignant extremely, the parents went to the master. Hakuin only uttered the word:”Really?” then stop.

    After the child was born, he was carried to Hakuin. Then, Hakuin lost all his honour, but not sad. Hakuin took care of the child carefully, begging milk and necessary things of neighbours for the child.

    A year later, the girl could not stand any longer. She told the truth to the parents that the real father of the child was not Hakuin but a young man selling fish in the market.

    The parents went to Hakuin immediately, apologized. The asking for forgiveness was lengthy, and they begged him to bring back the child home. Hakuin gave them the child and uttered only :”Really?””
     
  13. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    The Truth, Dao, De, nothingness, everythingness, wu wei.


    How is Dao like ? Chuang Tzu writes:” For Tao has its inner reality and its evidences. It is devoid of action and of form. It may be transmitted, but cannot be received; It may be obtained, but cannot be seen. It is based in itself, rooted in itself. Before heaven and earth were, Tao existed by itself from all time. It gave the spirits and rulers their spiritual powers, and gave Heaven and Earth their birth. To Tao, the zenith is not high, nor the nadir low; no point in time is long ago, nor by the lapse of ages has it grown old. “ (Quoted from Chuang Tzu by Lin Yutang).

    Dao is based in itself, rooted in itself therefore Tao is the cause of itself, not anything else is the cause of it. Taoism is a philosophy which is different from other religions, having the view point that the universe, all things, living beings are born by God. Tao is the chaos of wills and things having no wills, like stones. If we say that living beings are born by minerals and compounds, that is we use the low to explain the high. Thus, in the beginning, there were germs of living in Tao. Similarly, in the beginning, in Tao, there was consciousness in a jumble with things having no consciousness. And this exists before us, before heaven and earth, as a consequence Dao is transcendental. Dao has no beginning, no end and always exists, i.e, Dao is everywhere, Dao is everything, Dao is everytime. Dao is oneness, just one. Although one, but it is also the most because things and phenomenons, although abounding, can’t not go out of Dao. Dao is a reluctant name since Dao has no form. Speaking and writing must have some form, i.e, some sound, some words. Existing in a form, speaking and writing are limited, cannot express the thing having no beginning, no end, no form, limitless, the most precise but also the greatest. Consequently, even trying the best to say, to write or any way, we cannot express Dao.

    As Dao is marvellous, and hard to point it out, Lao Tzu used the concept non-being (non-existence, nothingness) to express Dao. He wrote:”Everything is born by existence; existence is born by non-existence.” Existence and non-existence are two sides of Dao. But to persons not enlightened, they only see being. Enlightened persons see both being and non-being. Seeing non-being, enlightened persons are very different, different revolutionarily in compare with non-enlightened persons, even geniuses.

    It seems very abstract and not realistic. But Dao is real and nothingness is real. You ask all Buddhists, they all say all things, houses, vehicles, cities, villages, … are nothingness. Is there anything existing for ever ? No. Anything which exists, anything having a form, or wills, thoughts, sentiments all turn nothingness. But this material world always exists, doesn’t disappear, so this world also comes from nothingness. And nothingness doesn’t mean nothing. Remember this: nothingness is not nothing. I have met some Westerners; they are confused nothingness with nothing. With nothing, you cannot have being. This nothingness is like water, having no form but also having every form. Nothingness is also the condition of existence, i.e. there is nothingness, there is being and vice versa, there is being, there is nonbeing. Being and non-being are like two sides of a piece of paper. Buddhism says very similarly: being is non-being; non-being is being.

    Everybody is nothingness. You live, breathe, work, love, give births, that is you are existence. This this existence has no characteristics, or not yin nor yang, or nothingness. If we say you are goodness, then you grant this goodness to others time after time, you become a saint. Hm, even Confucius, when living, people respected him deeply and called him a saint, real saint, he was still harmful, or say it another words, a saint is an enemy. What if I say you are bad ? So, you are left far apart, are put into prison and everybody hates you ? No, also. Then how you are like ? We must conclude that you are not good nor bad, or you have no characteristic, or nothingness. This time, you are good: you work, providing products or services to the society. But that time, you are bad since you get ill, or you have an accident, or you make mistakes. You may try; you work hard, learn hard, divide your work into small pieces, complete each piece, then complete the whole work to be successful. By this way, you see life is a sequence of decisions to be done and you did well and become successful. This makes you think that life is being. There is no nothingness. Nothingness is to deceiving. But many did like you and failed. Reading history of any race, you will see that there were heroes who failed. Gifted, moral persons but they were unsuccessful the whole life. And sometimes, we see a minister, a prime minister, or a billionaire fail. They have money, power, strong wills to success, they have everything, but still they fail. Just follow this principle: this world is nothingness, you see when they have conditions, and wills, they are successful but sometimes they fail. Life has no direction, because it is the chaotic mixture of yin and yang, is Dao, not just yang, not just good for people to win yang values, i.e. always good, always successful. Since human race had history up to now, we haven’t had a golden era.

    Chinese famous writer Lin Yutang tells a story in his book The Importance of Living to prove that this life is never perfect, always has badness: “ A man was imprisoned in Hell. He was going to be reincarnated, so he asked Pluto:”As Your Grace want me to come back to life, please let me ask for some conditions.” Pluto asked:”What conditions?” The man answered:”Let me be the son of a king’s first minister, be the father of a first-rank doctorate; let me live in a house in the middle of ten thousand hectare land, which has a pond with fish and all kinds of fruids; let me have a very beautiful wife and many charming concubines, and all are dutiful to please me; let me have valueables full of the room, rice full of the store, money full of the trunk and I am a high official, living an eminent, rich, honourable, one hundred year life.” Pluto answered:”If life had such a person, I would reincarnate to replace you !”.
     
  14. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    That's a lot of explanation for nothing.
     
  15. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    I've always loved this story...what do you understand of it?
     
  16. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    That's enlightened Buddhists & Taoists perceive them & the world, societies are nothingness, not goodness nor badness to hate their enemies. They love their enemies. Gradually, I'll talk about Tao, Te, Yin, Yang, Wu Wei, enlightenment, Taoism zen, nothingness & everythingness; you'll understand more & more profound. Wait for me then.
     
  17. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    If the enlightened see everyone including their enemies as 'nothingness'...why do they love them?
     
  18. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    Tao, Te, Yin, Yang, Nothingness, Everythingness, Wu Wei

    Actually, the enlightened perceive they themselves & societies are nothingness, therfore they treat their enemies the way they treat themselves,so, from outside, people see the enlightened "love" their enemies.

    Every era, every society, everyone, all are chaos of the good and the bad, not the good only nor the bad only, i.e, no inner nature, or nothingness. In other theories, they say that human race develop: from living wildly in caves, now we are civilized, we live in comfortable houses. But I don’t know if our inventions are developed, or profitable, or good. For instance, internet is a great invention, but good information leads to “good” adultery as they date more easily. Net causes cheating, stealing passwords, stealing account, i.e. stealing money. Not only those but also there are viruses, corrupted websites, websites teaching people to suicide, teaching how to make bombs and terrorists, via net, collect money, recruit new terrorists, and train well, etc. Internet is also harmful, not only good. Not good nor bad, internet is nothingness. Another advancement is artificial satellite is the same. To produce them successfully, human race spent great labour, spent great deal of money, time, grey matter, i.e, artificial satellites are harmful. Then, in using, American satellite espionage China, consequently, to China, American satellites are harmful. Satellites are also harmful to other countries. “Advancement” that way is nothingness, not goodness. To invent the good is to invent the bad.

    Everything is the chaos, or nothingness, also space and time. From Mars, look at the Earth, where is back and where is front ? Where is high and where is low? Then we see that the high is the low and the low is the high and the back is the front and the front is the back, or yin is yang and conversely. Space with three dimensions just exists in Newton physics. In Albert Einstein physics, space is different. We know that light beams always goes the straight way. But light beams which from stars go to the earth near the sun, we see that light beam are bent. Einstein explained it is because space is bent. Space with three dimensions we see are not real. Time, one dimension from past to future, too, is not real. To enlightened persons in Taoism and Buddhism, they don’t see time and space inside them though they live in space and time. For them, time and space disappear. Therefore, they “forget” everything, even the past, even the most dramatic, sublime, hateful events. To Daoists, all are chaotic, all are nothingness.

    In the book The infinite in a palm by Matthieu Ricard and Trinh Xuan Thuan, Trinh Xuan Thuan wrote about relativity and oneness of time and space, and oneness of modern physics very clear. Trinh Xuan Thuan was born in 1948 in Hanoi, Vietnam. He is an outstanding specialist in astronomy physics researching the formation of the universe. He teaches in the university of Virginie (USA) and he is an author of many books which popularize science evaluated highly. About oneness of the universe, he wrote:

    Science, with its techniques, has found that reality is general and depending on one another, both in inside atoms and macroscopic world. In microcosmic world, there are evidences proving that phenomena in inside atoms are dependent another based on the famous imaginary experiment which Einstein and his two colleagues in Princeton and Nathan Rosen gave in 1935. They call this experiment is EPR paradox, which stands for 3 first letters of the three authors. It is a paradox since Einstein thought reality was unconnected and based on particles, not a connected reality. This paradox disappears when we think that reality is connected, and general. To understand this experiment, we need to know that, light, like matter, has two sides, i.e, in the physical world which is dependent on another, what they call “photon”, “electron”, “matter”, this time are particles, that time are waves. Whenever I haven’t used machines to measure, what I call “photon” is still our of rigidity of the world and it has no definite orbits, and it shows the waving side. These waves spread every direction in space, like waves by a stone thrown onto a lake; these waves spread until they cover all the lake. Thus, they may say that photon appears everywhere in space. Quantum mechanics says, if we don’t observe, we won’t be able to predict where photon is at a particular time, or we will only be able to evaluate its probability for it to appears this place or that place. Like waves of an ocean, probability waves attached to photon has different amplitudes in different places. The probability to see photon is big where the amplitude is big, and small where the amplitude is small. But even where the amplitude is big, we are not sure we will meet photon there. For example, the probability may be ¾ hay 9/10 but never 100%. Therefore, before observing, reality inside atoms are probabilities. Being a follower of determinism, Einstein did not accept the first place of probability in quantum mechanics. He once said: “God doesn’t play dices.” He sought for weak points in quantum mechanics continuously and in its explanation of reality which has probability. Because of that, he did the experiment EPR.

    Three authors said: we see a particle splitting into two photons A and B. Because of symmetrical reasons, these two particles move in two opposite directions. Let’s set machines to measure and check. If A moves northward, we’ll see B in the South. Up to now, we haven’t seen anything special. But as they forget properties of quantum machenics: before it is detected by the machine, A doesn’t have a particle form but a wave form. There is a probability for this wave to appear every direction. Only when being caught A turns into a particle and “know” that it moves northward. If before being caught, A doesn’t “know” it will go what direction, how B may “guess” the direction of A to adjust its direction so that it is caught at the same time in the opposite direction? This is nonsense, except we accept that A informs B immediately its direction. But relativity affirms that no signal moves faster than light. Einstein said:”God doesn’t transmit 6th sense signals”. So, he concluded that quantum mechanics doesn’t describe reality completely. In his opinion, A must know in advance what direction it moves and transmits this information to B before leaveing B. Thus properties of A must have an objective reality independent to the observation. The explanation of quantum mechanics, therefore, A may go every direction is wrong. Behind the curtain of indetermined quantum, there must be an obvious reality. In Einstein’s opinion, speed and place to determine a particle is in that particle, independent to observation. Quantum mechanics can not explain the determined orbit of a particle, because it doesn’t see secondary parameters. Then it is not complete.

    However, Einstein was wrong. Since it was built, quantum mechanics, and its probability in explanation about reality hasn’t had any weak point, even the smallest weak point. Experiments have been proving that it is right and now it is still the most correct theory to understand movements in atoms world and fundamental particles.

    For a long time, EPR was only an imaginary experiment. They did not know how to do it in reality. In 1964, John Bell, an Icelandic physicist, who established a mathematical theorem which named “inequality Bell”. This inequality had to be confirmed by experimental measures if there would have been parameters in particles as Einstein thought. This inequality allowed to change from metaphysical aspects to experimental aspects. In 1982, in the University of Orsay, the French physicist Alain Aspect and his colleagues did many experiments with pairs of photons to check the effect EPR. They found that the inequality Bell was always violated, i.e. Einstein was wrong and quantum mechanics was right. In Aspect’s experiment, photon A and B were seperated 12 m, but B always “knew” what A did immediately.

    Some kinds of atom clocks were attached to detectors of A and B allowed them to measure the time of each photon very exactly. The difference of the two periods of time were less than 10 billionths of a second (perhaps this difference is 0, but the correct of atom clocks now don’t allow us to measure time less than 10-10 second). But in 10-10 second, light can not go over a length of 3 cm, very short in compare with 12 m from A to B. More than that, the result was not changed even when they lenthened length between two photons. Although it was obvious that light could not go over this space to transmit information, but movements of A and B were always interrelated immediately.
     
  19. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    How can they treat anybody including themselves as anything...when they see everybody as nothing?
     
  20. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

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    Daoists & Buddhists see everybody as nothingness, not "nothing".From nothing, we can't have everythingness. Both philosophies say everythingness (being, existence) is nothingness(nonbeing, nonexistence) & nothingness is everythingness. In Daoism, normal people don't see nothingness, only enlightened daoists see nothingness.
    Dao (oneness) is the combination of yin & yang. Since yin is not yin, but yin is yang & yang is not yang, but yang is yin, we have results that dao is not right nor wrong, not good nor bad, not positive nor negative, ... but chaotic like Lao Tzu often says. As the Oneness is chaotic, it has two sides everythingness & nothingness. Just when you see you & the world are the Oneness, i.e, you reach enlightenment, you see everythingness & nothingness at the same time. To describe nothingness with images, I can say that nothingness is like wet air,being formless, flies everywhere, but when in cold, it turns into water & from water we have every shape (everythingness).
    If you still don't get being & nonbeing, wait for me, I'll talk about it with more details next, or you may download my ebook Taoism: The Source of Happiness at
    w*w.lulu.com/product/ebook/taoism-the-source-of-happiness/10292433 free of charge. The truth is for everyone. I disagree with some websites of Osho, a zen master, earn $ from his books. With Vietnamese websites abouts Buddhism, we have free ebooks.
     
  21. keith1 Guest

    The dao that can be told
    is not the eternal Dao.

    ~Lao-tzu
     
  22. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    Well I dont see any difference in the two words honestly...nothing and nothingness.

    Is there a difference between 'nothing' and 'no thing'?

    Is there a difference between 'detachment' and 'non-attachment'?

    I believe the meaning of Hakuin's story is that he saw the human ego as nothing...as transparent.

    This is why he had no interest in defending his honour and status as a monk.
    He only saw what was required of the child.

    What would he say if accused of the arrogance of claiming enlightenment among thousands of monks who have not yet seen the way?

    "Is that so?"
     
  23. taoist11 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    49
    From nothing we can't have everythingness while the two doctrines, Daoism & Buddhism state nothingness is everythingness & conversely. If we saw "nothing" is everythingness then we can't meditate the right way to reach enlightenment.

    But Dao is real and nothingness is real. You ask all Buddhists, they all say all things, houses, vehicles, cities, villages, … are nothingness. Is there anything existing for ever ? No. Anything which exists, anything having a form, or wills, thoughts, sentiments all turn nothingness. But this material world always exists, doesn’t disappear, so this world also comes from nothingness. And nothingness doesn’t mean nothing. Remember this: nothingness is not nothing. I have met some Westerners; they are confused nothingness with nothing. With nothing, you cannot have being. This nothingness is like water, having no form but also having every form. Nothingness is also the condition of existence, i.e. there is nothingness, there is being and vice versa, there is being, there is nonbeing. Being and non-being are like two sides of a piece of paper. Buddhism says very similarly: being is non-being; non-being is being.

    Read what I posted carefully, Carcano. & I may say I see nothingness already as in everyday life, I give $ to ones I hate. I see them as nonbeing I write above.
     

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